No, we're not going to forget

[naturalbornhawk]

They NO LONGER HAD 30 yrs worth of reports, because they WERE NOT REQUIRED to retain them.

Your FOIA buddies asked for reports which no longer existed, then duped you into thinking they never conducted any oversight.

You, being the willful Village Idiot, repeated those claims.

So you're saying the reports were done but they just disappeared? That's complete BS, if you did them, and they were favorable to vaccine safety you better believe they'd be able to submit them and maintain records of what's been done - especially in this climate, and especially if they reported to Congress no less. What a crock of crap Joe.

"After a vaccine is licensed, the document says, the FDA may obtain agreements from the manufacturers to conduct studies about a vaccine’s risks, benefits and optimal use. They’re usually epidemiological studies involving tens of thousands of people, according to the document."

They forgot to mention virtually every one of them was FRAUDULENT and only MMR and Thimerosal studies.

"Reiss then details the "abundant research" on HHS and vaccine safety, including Institute of Medicine reports that the agency commissions. "In July 2014, a large report on vaccine safety commissioned by HHS was also completed.""

Oh, the same IOM report that stated they found no evidence to confirm or deny that DTaP doesn't cause autism. Yet, the CDC states that it is known that "vaccines do not cause autism"? All this is verified by the Stanley Plotkin deposition, btw.

"She (Dorit) concludes by saying that though HHS "has done and continued to do abundant work related to vaccines safety, the agency should have submitted the required reports.""

If you had anything good to say about what you were doing, you'd have reported it to congress, especially in this climate in the world of vaccines. Essentially you have an IOM report admitting they don't know whether vaccines cause autism (because the proper safety studies have not been conducted). And you have fraudulent and poorly designed epidemiological studies falsely indicating safety.

No wonder why they didn't report this complete garbage to congress. That's what you get with a damn "fact" checker. Dorit is and always has been a pharma shill, by the way. Of course they have to get their "facts" from her. That's pretty laughable Joe. It would be unbelievable if it wasn't par for the course w/ vaccine "safety".

 

[naturalbornhawk]

They NO LONGER HAD 30 yrs worth of reports, because they WERE NOT REQUIRED to retain them.

Your FOIA buddies asked for reports which no longer existed, then duped you into thinking they never conducted any oversight.

You, being the willful Village Idiot, repeated those claims.

BTW, your explanation is not what your article said. The article wasn't even dumb enough to come up with that.

Essentially, the IOM report that couldn't find evidence for or against DTaP causing autism, and all those fraudulent MMR / Thimerosal studies, none of which was in any report to congress. Dorit even admits "the agency should have submitted the required reports."

So, you're wrong again Joe.

 

[Joes Place]

So you're saying the reports were done but they just disappeared?

The reports are issued and not archived, Cletus.

Read the Politifact writeup addressing your bullshit.

 

[Joes Place]

Essentially, the IOM report that couldn't find evidence for or against DTaP causing autism

I'm old enough to remember when you said this "wasn't about autism".

Now we're back on that jag, again....

 

[MichaelKeller99]

you know that "the jab" wasn't widely available in 2020, right?

it wasn't even approved until december 2020 and still took a few months before everyone could get it

I wasn't referring just to the covid jabs. IF vaccines are so awesome and IF the U.S. has the most overreaching vaccine schedule in the world then shouldn't we, in theory, also have the LOWEST childhood mortality rate instead of one of the highest?

 

[Joes Place]

shouldn't we, in theory, also have the LOWEST childhood mortality rate instead of one of the highest?

We have the shittiest healthcare system in the Western world for low-income people.

And the other Western nations have similar vaccination schedules to us, and you have no answer as to why their rates are so low compared to 100 years ago.

Shit, go visit any cemetery that's 100+ years old and just look how many young kids are buried there. MOST of them died of diseases we vaccinate against today.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

The reports are issued and not archived, Cletus.

Read the Politifact writeup addressing your bullshit.

Issued? Issued to who? The reports were never "issued". As I said, Dorit even admits "the agency should have submitted the required reports". Meaning, even the shill admits there WERE NO reports issued to congress, as mandated. The write up does not in any way shape or form imply that any report was ever made to congress and not archived, as you suggest. Their (false) contention is that the science has been done, but admits no report issued. For heaven's sake read your own link man.

I'm old enough to remember when you said this "wasn't about autism".

Now we're back on that jag, again....

HHS not submitting reports to congress as mandated is pertinent to all vaccines on the schedule and is NOT autism specific.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

It's nothing short of amazing that there are actually people who still stick up for the dumpster fire COVID safety measures. Wouldn't it just be so much easier and much more admirable to admit they were wrong? They can't actually believe they were right about everything, since they were wrong about virtually everything, can they?

So damned funny! CDC asks a panel of experts to update infection control guidelines. Panel comes back and reaffirms the science that masks don't work. CDC: "That's a bunch of bull crap!!! Do it again!!!" 🤣🤣🤣

This finding did not sit well with the CDC. Complaining about the experts’ guidance in a blog post last week, the CDC warned them they had gotten the science wrong:

Another issue relevant to preventing transmission through air is to make sure that a draft set of recommendations cannot be misread to suggest equivalency between facemasks and NIOSH Approved respirators, which is not scientifically correct nor the intent of the draft language. Although masks can provide some level of filtration, the level of filtration is not comparable to NIOSH Approved respirators.

INVESTIGATION: CDC Upset Their Own Expert Advisers Not Recommending Masks, Demands They Recommend Masks

Too much science is forcing CDC to request a science do over after CDC’s own scientist and outside experts find N95 respirators don’t work better than masks—and neither do much to protect from COVID.

disinformationchronicle.substack.com

Speaking of bad science, this is absolutely insane! And it's from 9 yrs ago; imagine it's much, MUCH worse now.

An analysis of 2013 IMS Data, found that over 274,000 infants (0-1 year olds) and some 370,000 toddlers (1-3 years age) in the U.S. were on antianxiety (e.g. Xanax) and antidepressant (e.g. Prozac) drugs. This report also found over 1,400 infants were on ADHD drugs.

A 2014 Georgia Medicaid analyses led by Susanna Visser at the CDC (see a video of her fascinating talk) when extrapolated nationwide by the New York Times found that over 10,000 toddlers were put on ADHD treatments. (Dr. Visser is currently working on national estimates but believes that the estimate from the Georgia data is conservative.)

Prescriptions of powerful antipsychotics such as Risperdal for infants and very young children have also sharply risen. Office visits for childhood bipolar disorder have risen 40-fold over the past decade in the U.S.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-258B-5148

 

[Joes Place]

Issued? Issued to who?

The public, Cletus.

Probably posted on the Internet since the 1990s.
And, as there is no requirement to "archive" them, they get deleted year over year.

Your FOIA request found NOTHING. Clearly outlined for you in the Politifact writeup.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

The ones who survive.

And the ones that survive measles die of other illnesses after their immune memory is erased.

Go post for us the childhood mortality rates prior to vaccines, in the late 1800s/early 1900s compared to now.

That would be pointless and unscientific. Government statistics clearly show the measles mortality rate dropping from >14 per 100,000 to <1 per 100,000 long before the vaccine came along.

Seems like the unvaxxed get - and SPREAD - measles. Just like covid, huh? 🤡

https://www.science.org/content/article/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsrates1940_60.pdf

 

[Joes Place]

This finding did not sit well with the CDC. Complaining about the experts’ guidance in a blog post last week, the CDC warned them they had gotten the science wrong:

That is NOT what the CDC links says, Cletus.
"Respiratory protection remains an important part of personal protective equipment to keep healthcare personnel safe."

 

[Joes Place]

That would be pointless and unscientific.

It would completely disprove the bullshit you post here, so you won't look at it.

Go look at infant mortality rates since 1850.
You'll see significant drops starting when the smallpox vaccine was introduced in 1870, and when a slew of other childhood vaccines were introduced in the 1920s.

 

[Joes Place]

That would be pointless and unscientific. Government statistics clearly show the measles mortality rate dropping from >14 per 100,000 to <1 per 100,000 long before the vaccine came along.

Healthcare improved substantially thru the 1900s.

Now, compare the rates from BEFORE and AFTER the vaccine, Cletus.

 

[Joes Place]

That would be pointless and unscientific. Government statistics clearly show the measles mortality rate dropping from >14 per 100,000 to <1 per 100,000 long before the vaccine came along.

Seems like the unvaxxed get - and SPREAD - measles. Just like covid, huh? 🤡

https://www.science.org/content/article/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsrates1940_60.pdf

FUNFACT: MOST deaths from measles are not from measles, but from erased immune memory that enables other pathogens to kill kids.

 

[Joes Place]

That would be pointless and unscientific. Government statistics clearly show the measles mortality rate dropping from >14 per 100,000 to <1 per 100,000 long before the vaccine came along.

Seems like the unvaxxed get - and SPREAD - measles. Just like covid, huh? 🤡

https://www.science.org/content/article/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsrates1940_60.pdf

It is 1/100th the rate prior to the vaccine, Cletus
Tracks about the same as the infection rates

Rate of reported cases and deaths from measles in the USA

The reported rates are per 100,000 US population.

ourworldindata.org

 

[EasyHawk]

The biggest surprise to me is at least in my area, things are basically back to normal where people come to work or go to school sick again. I didn't think that would happen for a while. In a meeting someone asked a coworker if she was feeling better and she said "ehh." Then she said "It's basically like a cold, but honestly, I have Covid again. My husband is home sick with it, lost his taste and smell again. We don't test anymore." And at my wife's school, a teacher told her she might not want to get to0 close and my wife asked "oh, are you sick?" She said "I have Covid again!" My wife said "you mean you just got over it?" She said no, she just found out she had it. She called the office and they said as long as she wasn't running a fever and felt ok, she should come in. And masks not required even if you know you have it. She also named several other teachers with it. And quite few students.

 

[Rifler]

It's become the "flu",.. and that's what it should be treated like.

 

[Joes Place]

The biggest surprise to me is at least in my area, things are basically back to normal where people come to work or go to school sick again. I didn't think that would happen for a while. In a meeting someone asked a coworker if she was feeling better and she said "ehh." Then she said "It's basically like a cold, but honestly, I have Covid again. My husband is home sick with it, lost his taste and smell again. We don't test anymore." And at my wife's school, a teacher told her she might not want to get to0 close and my wife asked "oh, are you sick?" She said "I have Covid again!" My wife said "you mean you just got over it?" She said no, she just found out she had it. She called the office and they said as long as she wasn't running a fever and felt ok, she should come in. And masks not required even if you know you have it. She also named several other teachers with it. And quite few students.

Weird

My sister's school, anyone w/ flu or Covid is required to stay home to minimize how many other teachers get infected.

Mostly because if too many get infected all at once, they don't have enough to cover classes, anymore.

 

[Joes Place]

It's become the "flu",.. and that's what it should be treated like.

And most schools want teachers to stay home when they are infected with flu so they do not infect the rest of the staff.

Covering for 1 sick teacher is easy. Covering for 6 or 7 at once becomes a problem.

 

[TornadoHawk93]

We have the shittiest healthcare system in the Western world for low-income people.

And the other Western nations have similar vaccination schedules to us, and you have no answer as to why their rates are so low compared to 100 years ago.

Shit, go visit any cemetery that's 100+ years old and just look how many young kids are buried there. MOST of them died of diseases we vaccinate against today.

Now this is spot on!!!!

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Healthcare improved substantially thru the 1900s.

Now, compare the rates from BEFORE and AFTER the vaccine, Cletus.

I linked the HEW/CDC data from BEFORE and AFTER the vaccine, Clee'Tuss. It showed > 14-fold reduction in Measles mortality to a rate of < 1 in 100,000 in the 15 years prior to the introduction of the vaccine. If you google the CDC and measles the mortality rate today is HIGHER. But you didn't look at it because you don't deal in facts.

Interesting thing about measles. In 1989 an outbreak occurred in the states that increased cases from the previous year by 423% with death rates increasing by an astonishing 230-fold!! (historyofvaccines.org.blog)

Totally coincidental to this outbreak was the US - in 1989 - adopting the American Academy of Pediatrics recommendation to implement the MMR booster for measles. Yup. Totally coincidental.

 

[Joes Place]

I linked the HEW/CDC data from BEFORE and AFTER the vaccine

No; You didn't.

You linked many years prior that show reductions due to better healthcare in mid-1900s America vs. Rural pre-1900s America. Where there were few, if any, hospitals to keep kids alive.

I posted the "before/after" data that show a 100-fold decrease, not "14x"

 

[Joes Place]

Interesting thing about measles. In 1989 an outbreak occurred in the states that increased cases from the previous year by 423% with death rates increasing by an astonishing 230-fold!!

Because people quit vaccinating, idiot. WHAT YOU POST CAUSES that shit.

 

[Joes Place]

I linked the HEW/CDC data from BEFORE and AFTER the vaccine, Clee'Tuss. It showed > 14-fold reduction in Measles mortality to a rate of < 1 in 100,000 in the 15 years prior to the introduction of the vaccine

Because: Antibiotics!!!!
Remember how measles "erases" your immune system?
The advent of widespread use of antibiotics enabled kids to survive those infections (that they'd have survived IF their immune systems weren't erased!!!)

In 1916, 12,000 people died of measles, and three out of four deaths were children under 5 years old. But that same year, a pair of French doctors found measles antibodies in patients’ blood. They showed how the antibodies could protect others from developing the disease, laying the groundwork for developing a vaccine.​

​

By the 1950s, measles deaths had dropped to only 400 to 500 a year, thanks to the availability of antibiotics and improvements in sanitation, medical supportive care and nutrition, says Paul Offit, chief of division of infectious diseases at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and director of their Vaccine Education Center. (Though antibiotics couldn’t treat a viral illness, bacterial pneumonia was one of measles’ deadliest complications.)​

​

Why It Took So Long to Eliminate Measles | HISTORY

Scientists had to overcome problems with the vaccine’s safety, then public health officials had to take on complacency about the disease.

www.history.com

Now, go back and look up where I'd posted for you that MOST people don't die directly from measles, they die from subsequent infections their immune systems no longer recognize.

Dipshit.

 

[Joes Place]

I linked the HEW/CDC data

Nearly Everyone Once Got the Measles​

Still, nearly everyone got it. The disease led to an estimated 48,000 hospitalizations a year from complications such as ear infections, croup, diarrhea and pneumonia. About 1,000 children a year developed encephalitis, brain swelling that could cause intellectual disability or death.

Among those parents left reeling from the death of their children from the disease was children’s author Roald Dahl, who watched his daughter die from measles encephalitis in 1962. He would later dedicate his book, The BFG, to his daughter’s memory.

Even surviving a measles infection didn’t end your risk of death: a very rare, fatal complication called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) could develop one to two decades later, causing gradual deterioration until the person entered a coma and eventually died.

 

[Joes Place]

“Relatively few people are alive now who witnessed epidemics of those diseases and their effects,” says Stanley Plotkin, the scientist who developed the rubella vaccine used in today’s MMR.

“As somebody who practiced university pediatrics in the 1950s and 60s, I don’t take those diseases lightly at all.”

 

[DeangeloVickers]

This thread should have never devolved into a general vax debate... but some of you took the bait and couldn't help it.
There's a HUGE gap between general childhood vaccines and the bullshit that went on for 2+ years surrounding covid. We shouldn't lose sight of this nor let it be repeated in the future.

 

[Joes Place]

There's a HUGE gap between general childhood vaccines and the bullshit that went on for 2+ years surrounding covid.

Youtube posters 'splain this one to you?

Because Covid vaccines were tested to the exact same testing standards as everything else.

 

[TornadoHawk93]

The main problem a lot people have with the COVID Vaccine is the fact that they were introduced from start to finish withing 11 months. Most Vaccines take years of trials and testing to approve. I took the Vaccine and am glad I did. However, I know a lot of people are scared of the long term effects of what the vaccine might be. And, lets be honest, if they have the technology to safely introduce a vaccine to the world....then lets get the rest of these things out there faster.

 

[Joes Place]

The main problem a lot people have with the COVID Vaccine is the fact that they were introduced from start to finish withing 11 months. Most Vaccines take years of trials and testing to approve.

And you appear to be ignorant as to how this was accomplished.
HINT: It was NOT by "skipping steps".

 

[TornadoHawk93]

And you appear to be ignorant as to how this was accomplished.
HINT: It was NOT by "skipping steps".

LOL, you are such a moron. Where did I say they skipped steps? Please do let the rest of us know. I pointed out why many people had a problem with it.

Maybe get out of your basement and see the world sometime.

 

[Joes Place]

LOL, you are such a moron. Where did I say they skipped steps?

It is precisely what you implied with the "speed" at which they were done, compared with past vaccines.

Own that nonsense, because it's crap.

 

[TornadoHawk93]

It is precisely what you implied with the "speed" at which they were done, compared with past vaccines.

Own that nonsense, because it's crap.

Just stop your insanity. I pointed out that people had MAJOR issues with the speed that the vaccine was develope. THAT IS A FACT! Or, are you going to lie and deny that? As to the reasons for those concerns....there are many that came out at that time. And yes, I am sure many thought because of the of speed that they "Cut corners". However, I NEVER said that. Own it when you are WRONG on your stupid assumptions.

 

[Joes Place]

Just stop your insanity. I pointed out that people had MAJOR issues with the speed that the vaccine was develope. THAT IS A FACT!

Implying YOU had issues because of this.
Despite the simple fact that the vaccines were tested to the SAME standards.

The same people who bitched about the rapid development cheered on the Trump administration for that rapid development (even though the administration had little to do with Pfizer's process, and only aided Moderna with government funds).

Development went faster, because they ran steps in parallel - at risk - rather than running them sequentially. If early phases failed, then that development speed would have both wasted a ton of money AND further slowed the process. Companies simply DO NOT run processes in parallel, because it is extremely high risk. Pfizer took that risk on 100% themselves. Moderna had government backing to mitigate some of that risk.

Those are facts, inconsistent with the perceptions you are pushing here

 

[TornadoHawk93]

Implying YOU had issues because of this.
Despite the simple fact that the vaccines were tested to the SAME standards.

The same people who bitched about the rapid development cheered on the Trump administration for that rapid development (even though the administration had little to do with Pfizer's process, and only aided Moderna with government funds).

Development went faster, because they ran steps in parallel - at risk - rather than running them sequentially. If early phases failed, then that development speed would have both wasted a ton of money AND further slowed the process. Companies simply DO NOT run processes in parallel, because it is extremely high risk. Pfizer took that risk on 100% themselves. Moderna had government backing to mitigate some of that risk.

Those are facts, inconsistent with the perceptions you are pushing here

Only you could contradict yourself MULTIPLE times in your own argument and prove a point that I was not even originally trying to making. First, you state, "HINT: It was NOT by "skipping steps". Then in this last post you state that "Companies DO NOT run processes in parallel, because it is extremly high risk", and that Pfizer did it. LOL! The mear fact that they went against their own standards of practice and knew that doing that was VERY HIGH RISK means they cut a corner.

Now, I will say this again for you...so really pay attention. I NEVER said in my original post that they "Cut corners", I simply pointed out what was TOTALLY easy to see, if you were alive during that time, which was that many people at the time were concerned with how fast it came out. A totally true statement. I personally had no problems with how it came out and was thrilled to have the vaccine and took it, as did my whole family. For all I knew, they simply fast tracked it just like they could any other drug if needed. You poved that wrong. Thanks I guess.

Do better.

 

[Jan Itor]

Only you could contradict yourself MULTIPLE times in your own argument and prove a point that I was not even originally trying to making. First, you state, "HINT: It was NOT by "skipping steps". Then in this last post you state that "Companies DO NOT run processes in parallel, because it is extremly high risk", and that Pfizer did it. LOL! The mear fact that they went against their own standards of practice and knew that doing that was VERY HIGH RISK means they cut a corner.

Now, I will say this again for you...so really pay attention. I NEVER said in my original post that they "Cut corners", I simply pointed out what was TOTALLY easy to see, if you were alive during that time, which was that many people at the time were concerned with how fast it came out. A totally true statement. I personally had no problems with how it came out and was thrilled to have the vaccine and took it, as did my whole family. For all I knew, they simply fast tracked it just like they could any other drug if needed. You poved that wrong. Thanks I guess.

Do better.

I put Joe on ignore years ago because of this nonsense and the sheer number of his posts. Try it, you might like it.

 

[TornadoHawk93]

I put Joe on ignore years ago because of this nonsense and the sheer number of his posts. Try it, you might like it.

Thanks Jan....might have to do that.

And seriously, some people are simply looking to fight with someone because they have nothing better to do when they are stuck in their basement. LOL! Look, he lives here along with a few other of his ilk. You don't get 148,000+ post without being here 24/7. Thankfully, I have a life and spend very little time on this particular board. Peace my friend!!!

 

[Joes Place]

Only you could contradict yourself MULTIPLE times

I didn't contradict myself at all.

Running pre-production ramp-up on a vaccine you do not YET have the safety data for is a HUGE risk.
They did that to prevent the delays.

Safety data looked fine, so they had that step DONE and were ready to move into full production.

That's not "skipping steps" at all. It is running them in parallel

 

[Joes Place]

First, you state, "HINT: It was NOT by "skipping steps". Then in this last post you state that "Companies DO NOT run processes in parallel, because it is extremly high risk",

AGAIN: NOT skipping steps, running steps in PARALLEL

This seems oddly befuddling for you.

Put me on ignore, you'll end up even dumber.

 

[TornadoHawk93]

I didn't contradict myself at all.

Running pre-production ramp-up on a vaccine you do not YET have the safety data for is a HUGE risk.
They did that to prevent the delays.

Safety data looked fine, so they had that step DONE and were ready to move into full production.

That's not "skipping steps" at all. It is running them in parallel

LOL!! WRONG. Just stop already. Good Lord.