The NCAA could have proactively handled a lot of these problems and instead chose to be greedy and aloof.
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people playing bama have been losing to money for years
Probably not. Football at the big schools will break away and be pro...title IX not longer applies to them. That gets rid of a crap-ton of male scholarships and most of the AD's funding. College sports for big schools will go away if they lose their cash cow football programs.As pointed out, this will be a Title IX issue before long.
I don’t really disagree with any of that. It’s a hard problem to fix and I don’t see any easy solutions. You need at least some semblance of competitive balance and the Supreme Court has said you can’t cap/curtail NIL so we have to look elsewhere if we want to do that. It’s a billion dollar business with none of that currently going to the players because as you point out, a bunch of it is currently being used to support the non-revenue sports.Paying the players directly won't solve anything and will introduce a bunch of issues. I don't know what an NFL budget looks like, but I doubt there's enough money to pay the players like they do in the NFL. Certainly the only way you could realistically pay them anything meaningful would be to drop all non-revenue sports since a huge portion of football revenue goes to support the other sports.
Second, the NFL uses a draft system to keep some semblance of parity. Even with direct pay, NIL can still be used to induce kids to attend certain schools. Add that to the dynasty effect we already have and the lock the blues bloods have on NC will be even stronger. A couple other wealthy schools may break past the glass ceiling, but the vast majority will fall further behind. That will trigger a drop in interest and the very break up of divisions discussed in the article.
The bottom line is that "college football" will likely look much, much different 15 years from now. It will be a relatively fast evolution followed by a radical restructuring. Then...elements of it may die off.
I've said for years we need minor league football...well we're heading inexorably in that direction IMO.
I think there will be people who attempt to tie this to Title IX. There will need to be some changes to tie this to Title IX since the money is outside the school. Any limits on this will need to pass through the Supreme Court and they were pretty absolute on no limits for this.As pointed out, this will be a Title IX issue before long.
By “mooching” do you mean our biggest corporations paying no taxes, or getting billions in government subsidies, or our billionaires paying on average about 3% in taxes?YOU'RE DAMN STRAIGHT. But mooching is the new norm in soft modern America!!!
I'll NEVER be ok with that.... I can't believe you are, what a shame.
Pretty sure they serve all colors not just black white and brown fyi
By “mooching” do you mean our biggest corporations paying no taxes, or getting billions in government subsidies, or our billionaires paying on average about 3% in taxes?
not everything can be valued in dollars. Most things actually can’t. Trying to do so is insane, and will lead to insane consequences.
by your “market logic” iowa should eliminate ALL sports except football, mens basketball, and mens wrestling.
sorry Caitlin and Megan. Sorry track athletes.
Sorry baseball and softball. Etc.
and most of the big donors to the UI have been white men over the decades. So those John Galt like “heroes” being men, we should therefore funnel their male money to scholarships for white male students and white male professors. Right?
i mean, I’m a white male. What if I don’t want my money miscegenated with non Aryans or mingled with women?
people who think like that donate to virtually all-white and proudly corporate-fascist hillsdale college.
we’ve got politicians from a certain party openly stating that they don’t trust democracy and equating it to “mob rule” (forgetting that little “tourist visit” that was obviously not a deadly insurrectionist mob seeking a coup Jan 6), and that community and equity don’t matter.
dont people see that NIL and selling everything to the highest (usually most corrupt and corrupting) bidder, making everything corporate and giving most rights to people who have the most money lays waste to all that we love - university and sports and even what’s left of community?
I pay more in taxes than you don’t. Get the eff of my highways moocherYOU'RE DAMN STRAIGHT. But mooching is the new norm in soft modern America!!!
I'll NEVER be ok with that.... I can't believe you are, what a shame.
Pretty sure they serve all colors not just black white and brown fyi
100%As pointed out, this will be a Title IX issue before long.
I wont read all that. You don't want to get me started on the billionaires setting us all up to be commys one day!By “mooching” do you mean our biggest corporations paying no taxes, or getting billions in government subsidies, or our billionaires paying on average about 3% in taxes?
not everything can be valued in dollars. Most things actually can’t. Trying to do so is insane, and will lead to insane consequences.
by your “market logic” iowa should eliminate ALL sports except football, mens basketball, and mens wrestling.
sorry Caitlin and Megan. Sorry track athletes.
Sorry baseball and softball. Etc.
and most of the big donors to the UI have been white men over the decades. So those John Galt like “heroes” being men, we should therefore funnel their male money to scholarships for white male students and white male professors. Right?
i mean, I’m a white male. What if I don’t want my money miscegenated with non Aryans or mingled with women?
people who think like that donate to virtually all-white and proudly corporate-fascist hillsdale college.
we’ve got politicians from a certain party openly stating that they don’t trust democracy and equating it to “mob rule” (forgetting that little “tourist visit” that was obviously not a deadly insurrectionist mob seeking a coup Jan 6), and that community and equity don’t matter.
dont people see that NIL and selling everything to the highest (usually most corrupt and corrupting) bidder, making everything corporate and giving most rights to people who have the most money lays waste to all that we love - university and sports and even what’s left of community?
Don't worry, I'll go to the Rocky's or west coast...not fl. That's for sureI pay more in taxes than you don’t. Get the eff of my highways moocher
You are correct.Probably not. Football at the big schools will break away and be pro...title IX not longer applies to them. That gets rid of a crap-ton of male scholarships and most of the AD's funding. College sports for big schools will go away if they lose their cash cow football programs.
They're also grateful for any donations they receive from supporters/alums.The only way to combat this is to start going to Division 3 games. It is a great time and lots of fun. Don't let corperations own your mind too
As I've said before, I'll be shocked if the schools EVER pay the players directly. I'm pretty certain that would end their tax exempt status, and create an avalanche of tax problems, including paying the feds on that monstrous 50-60 million/year per school TV pay out, not to mention probably on all those funds donated by boosters. The tax bracket these schools would be, this would be a huge blow. Once they start paying the players they become employees, and literally everything changes........Might be a heck of a deal for the national debt though...Paying the players directly won't solve anything and will introduce a bunch of issues. I don't know what an NFL budget looks like, but I doubt there's enough money to pay the players like they do in the NFL. Certainly the only way you could realistically pay them anything meaningful would be to drop all non-revenue sports since a huge portion of football revenue goes to support the other sports.
Second, the NFL uses a draft system to keep some semblance of parity. Even with direct pay, NIL can still be used to induce kids to attend certain schools. Add that to the dynasty effect we already have and the lock the blues bloods have on NC will be even stronger. A couple other wealthy schools may break past the glass ceiling, but the vast majority will fall further behind. That will trigger a drop in interest and the very break up of divisions discussed in the article.
The bottom line is that "college football" will likely look much, much different 15 years from now. It will be a relatively fast evolution followed by a radical restructuring. Then...elements of it may die off.
I've said for years we need minor league football...well we're heading inexorably in that direction IMO.
I identify as a 5 star recruit and I want equal pay.Wow.
my son and I attended to Iowa women’s basketball games that sold out Carver.
Last I checked, we aren’t women, and a solid 50% of the attendees were boys and men.
with your logic, all non-revenue supporting men’s sports should be eliminated also.
I just can’t believe what some people think and say on these boards.
this is a UNIVERSITY serving men and women and even people who don’t identify as either, and black and white and brown and atheistic and fundamentalist and foreign and national etc etc. Sharing resources is what makes a university and community function.
predatory Orwellian corporate capitalism has warped and pulverized minds to an incredible degree.
The presence of paid employees has no bearing on the tax exempt status of a non-profit entity. The university already has paid employees, as does nearly every non profit. That's not to say the university's tax exempt status couldn't/wouldn't be challenged - but it wouldn't be because of paying the players, per se. Tax exempt status is granted to entities whose mission and purpose benefit the public and society, rather than the pursuit of profit (even though they do, indeed, make money). I can see the issue being challenged, but not successfully.As I've said before, I'll be shocked if the schools EVER pay the players directly. I'm pretty certain that would end their tax exempt status, and create an avalanche of tax problems, including paying the feds on that monstrous 50-60 million/year per school TV pay out, not to mention probably on all those funds donated by boosters. The tax bracket these schools would be, this would be a huge blow. Once they start paying the players they become employees, and literally everything changes........Might be a heck of a deal for the national debt though...
I guess the issue is what EXACTLY is the Universities mission at this point when they simply become a farm system for the pro leagues. This arms race for facilities, the huge TV contracts, and now this open recruitment of teenagers by throwing huge $$ at them certainly blur the line. Regardless whom is supposedly financing all of this its hard for the schools to hide their obvious involvement.The presence of paid employees has no bearing on the tax exempt status of a non-profit entity. The university already has paid employees, as does nearly every non profit. That's not to say the university's tax exempt status couldn't/wouldn't be challenged - but it wouldn't be because of paying the players, per se. Tax exempt status is granted to entities whose mission and purpose benefit the public and society, rather than the pursuit of profit (even though they do, indeed, make money). I can see the issue being challenged, but not successfully.
I don't disagree with that, at all. In fact, I wonder about the position as things stand right now. But clearly the current situation establishes an acceptable precedent. And if laws and tax code need to be tweaked to accommodate a new model, there are powerful forces to help "encourage" that to happen. "Tweaked" actually isn't the right word - this will obliterate the current model (in every way), and everything will need to be rebuilt.I guess the issue is what EXACTLY is the Universities mission at this point when they simply become a farm system for the pro leagues. This arms race for facilities, the huge TV contracts, and now this open recruitment of teenagers by throwing huge $$ at them certainly blur the line. Regardless whom is supposedly financing all of this its hard for the schools to hide their obvious involvement.
Yes there will be two divisions. The Haves and the Have Nots.I recommend reading the whole article as there are a lot of interesting quotes from Notre Dame’s AD regarding the current state of NIL, transfers, conference realignment, football playoffs, etc.
To briefly summarize, he says college sports are changing very rapidly to become a big business and it will soon reach a point where some schools will throw in the towel and realize they can’t keep up and then we will see a split between the two and we will have FBS split into the big $$$$ division and the small $ division.
Here are a few interesting quotes from the article. It was hard not to cut and paste the whole article as so much of it is relevant to a lot of threads on these boards recently.
The expectation is that the Big Ten and SEC will continue to leave the rest of the Power Five conferences behind in terms of revenue. The widening gap will place more stress on the current landscape, leading some schools to move away from their existing conference affiliations—and possibly leading some leagues to boot longtime members that don’t bring as much to the revenue trough.
“We’re going to have these two conferences that have so distanced themselves from anyone else financially,” Swarbrick said. “That’s where I see it starting to break down. There are so many schools trying to get out of their current conference, and they can’t get there.”
Asked if the current Name, Image and Likeness landscape is sustainable, the answer was a blunt no. Recruiting inducements were not the original idea, but that’s what NIL has become in many instances.
“This morphed so quickly into talent acquisition fees that it’s just stunning,” he said. “Two things happened. The schools that have been doing [under the table] this a long time just had a way they could describe it now and be covered. That created a whole bunch of pressure on other schools that said, ‘Oh my god, we’ve got to do that, too.’
“We went from what people thought was an overly restrictive market to the most unrestricted labor market in the history of sports.”
Does Swarbrick see NCAA Enforcement having any chance of reining it in?
“No. I hate to be so pessimistic, but it’s been a lot of years of not seeing them have any,” he said. “I can see a lot of that [rules compliance and enforcement] being transferred to the conferences.”
Swarbrick predicts that the current NIL marketplace will severely damage Olympic sports, as investments and donations continue to tilt toward revenue-producing sports.
“I hate to see that,” he said. “It’s going to be interesting to see how the federal government approaches it. If all of this revenue is disproportionately coming to men, even if you didn’t set it up, how does Title IX analyze that?”
Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick says total Division I realignment is ‘inevitable’ - Sports Illustrated
Wholesale change is unavoidable in college athletics. The Fighting Irish athletic director thinks a total realignment of Division I is coming with it.www.si.com
Personally I think, despite the attention I give to the football and men's b-ball teams, sports are a side activity and have little to do with what should be the university's primary mission. Money, of course, says otherwise.I guess the issue is what EXACTLY is the Universities mission at this point when they simply become a farm system for the pro leagues. This arms race for facilities, the huge TV contracts, and now this open recruitment of teenagers by throwing huge $$ at them certainly blur the line. Regardless whom is supposedly financing all of this its hard for the schools to hide their obvious involvement.
What I'm surprised is we have not seen a school's big donors pool $8-10 million to pay 8-9 players to buy a championship.How is everyone surprised by this? All of this was caused by two things:
1) Lack of leadership in CFB across all conferences
2) ESPN sowing the seeds to get higher rated games / less properties they need to bid on. Their talk programming (radio and tv) set the conversation in their favor.
Don't forget the shoe money.Do people think that a salary cap will be followed? The bag men will return.
How without stopping cheating.The NCAA could have proactively handled a lot of these problems and instead chose to be greedy and aloof.
I agree totally, hence my concern. Whats going on right now has absolutely NOTHING to do with why these Universities even exist. At some point i fear there's going to be a reckoning for all of this and it won't be good...Personally I think, despite the attention I give to the football and men's b-ball teams, sports are a side activity and have little to do with what should be the university's primary mission. Money, of course, says otherwise.
100% agree - Iowa just doesn’t have the Alumni purse strings. I can see a school like U of Illinois moving up the ladder though…Yeah, I’m not at all convinced this will be a good thing for Iowa. I’m reasonably confident Iowa would be included if the top teams break away. But whereas today we can be happy about being a top 25 team because we win 9-10 games, when there are only ~40 teams total then being top 25 doesn’t mean much and we won’t win nearly as many games because most of our schedule would be facing teams with big advantages over us.
Just eliminate women's sports and open all sports to whoever wants to participate.100%
SEC is Bama and Georgia and Saban won’t live forever. Rest are very beatable.Difference between sec and b1g is sec is getting paid AND increasing quality. B1g has too many crap teams compared to sec and long term could be in trouble. Also if OSU and MI left the conf would be in deep crap.
They have always been there for those so inclined. Question is did everyone always do it or were there some saints who only now will do it.Do people think that a salary cap will be followed? The bag men will return.
Yeah, I don't think this is right.The presence of paid employees has no bearing on the tax exempt status of a non-profit entity. The university already has paid employees, as does nearly every non profit. That's not to say the university's tax exempt status couldn't/wouldn't be challenged - but it wouldn't be because of paying the players, per se. Tax exempt status is granted to entities whose mission and purpose benefit the public and society, rather than the pursuit of profit (even though they do, indeed, make money). I can see the issue being challenged, but not successfully.
Interesting perspective, and one I hadn't really considered. But if they "break away", is it really college football at that point?Probably not. Football at the big schools will break away and be pro...title IX not longer applies to them. That gets rid of a crap-ton of male scholarships and most of the AD's funding. College sports for big schools will go away if they lose their cash cow football programs.
We're both close to the same page. You missed the "per se" of my comment. They wouldn't be disqualified because they paid the players, per se, but would be disqualified if paying the players removed the "social benefit" from their mission. As I said in a further response, I don't disagree that this could be challenged even under the current framework, let alone a new one. Whatever hoops they create to remain tax exempt, would address UBIT issues, as well. I'm a Chartered Advisor in Philanthropy and I'll just say there are myriads of ways to hold business assets and income in charitable frameworks to deal with UBIT (often more complicated than it's worth IMO).Yeah, I don't think this is right.
The tax-exempt status of athletic programs has already been under scrutiny, due to the money they bring in and the questionable exempt purpose - that being "education". The athletic department has remained tax-exempt - argument being that this is part of the education mission at the universities.
If you pay players, it's pretty much impossible to argue that they are there to "learn" - the players are there to get paid and entertain.
I'm no expert, but there is this thing called UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Tax). Exempt organizations currently pay tax on unrelated business activities. It's very possible, for example, that the U of I already has to pay tax on the profit earned by the Hawk Shop since the sale of apparel is not part of their exempt purpose.
I am convinced that, at a minimum, the athletic departments would have to pay UBIT on their profit. I believe it is more likely that they would end of paying regular income tax on their taxable income at the corporate tax rates.
But, the tax itself is not the danger - these athletic departments don't have much "profit" anyway. It would be loss of donor's ability to deduct contributions. That would hurt.
You're right - I did miss that.We're both close to the same page. You missed the "per se" of my comment. They wouldn't be disqualified because they paid the players, per se, but would be disqualified if paying the players removed the "social benefit" from their mission. As I said in a further response, I don't disagree that this could be challenged even under the current framework, let alone a new one. Whatever hoops they create to remain tax exempt, would address UBIT issues, as well. I'm a Chartered Advisor in Philanthropy and I'll just say there are myriads of ways to hold business assets and income in charitable frameworks to deal with UBIT (often more complicated than it's worth IMO).