NYT: We kept schools closed too long

[artradley]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/upshot/pandemic-school-closures-data.html

“The more time students spent in remote instruction, the further they fell behind. And, experts say, extended closures did little to stop the spread of Covid.”

Note that we were NOT acting on our best evidence. By fall of 2020 we knew it would be better to open schools than to keep them closed. The most vulnerable continue to pay the price.

 

[McLovin32]

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

Iowa governor overrides schools, requires in-person classes​

Reynolds’ proclamation drew immediate criticism from the state teachers union, which called it short-sighted for unnecessarily exposing students and school employees to a health risk. A leading Democratic state senator accused Reynolds of ignoring science and common sense.

Iowa governor overrides schools, requires in-person classes

Gov. Kim Reynolds says she will override local school districts and require students to spend at least half of their education time in classrooms despite concerns the move could endanger children and teachers as the number of coronavirus cases increase in the state.

www.3newsnow.com

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

Iowa governor overrides schools, requires in-person classes​

Reynolds’ proclamation drew immediate criticism from the state teachers union, which called it short-sighted for unnecessarily exposing students and school employees to a health risk. A leading Democratic state senator accused Reynolds of ignoring science and common sense.

Iowa governor overrides schools, requires in-person classes

Gov. Kim Reynolds says she will override local school districts and require students to spend at least half of their education time in classrooms despite concerns the move could endanger children and teachers as the number of coronavirus cases increase in the state.

www.3newsnow.com

Don’t worry. Some people still love to bitch about every decision that she makes.

It might be another great decision and they will still complain and call her a drunk.

 

[Colonoscopy]

You have to expect some told you sos. When major rags are acknowledging your point, finally, then you're gonna hear about it.

 

[goldmom]

Don’t worry. Some people still love to bitch about every decision that she makes.

It might be another great decision and they will still complain and call her a drunk.

That’s apparently a small minority who gather here on HROT to cry and moan. The rest of Iowa is going on with their lives.

 

[Finance85]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/upshot/pandemic-school-closures-data.html

“The more time students spent in remote instruction, the further they fell behind. And, experts say, extended closures did little to stop the spread of Covid.”

Note that we were NOT acting on our best evidence. By fall of 2020 we knew it would be better to open schools than to keep them closed. The most vulnerable continue to pay the price.

Before making this admission they should have consulted with Joes Place.

 

[BelemNole]

Are you telling me that there were negative side effects during a global pandemic?

Well I for one am shocked!

 

[Colonoscopy]

Are you telling me that there were negative side effects during a global pandemic?

Well I for one am shocked!

We're talking about specific policy decisions that the public argued over during the pandemic. The post-mortem is in and it's clear what was a good decision and what wasn't.

 

[Aardvark86]

I mean, duh.

 

[ThorneStockton]

The lightest section of the story and optimistic: "Pandemic school closures offer lessons for the future."

 

[tarheelbybirth]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/upshot/pandemic-school-closures-data.html

“The more time students spent in remote instruction, the further they fell behind. And, experts say, extended closures did little to stop the spread of Covid.”

Note that we were NOT acting on our best evidence. By fall of 2020 we knew it would be better to open schools than to keep them closed. The most vulnerable continue to pay the price.

I was ready to reopen schools very early on. Parents wouldn't have stood for it. Even when we did reopen, more than half our parents opted for remote learning - which was a f'n nightmare. There were teachers who, while Covid was still raging, would have refused to return as well.

 

[thewop]

No reasonable individual is surprised, nor is any more surprised today than they were in 2020.

 

[Colonoscopy]

No reasonable individual is surprised, nor is any more surprised today than they were in 2020.

I thought the initial closure in the spring was reasonable enough. Then we started getting a handle on the disease and it was apparent children were low risk and not as much of a threat to spread the disease. That's when I started leaning towards returning to school

 

[Colonoscopy]

I was ready to reopen schools very early on. Parents wouldn't have stood for it. Even when we did reopen, more than half our parents opted for remote learning - which was a f'n nightmare. There were teachers who, while Covid was still raging, would have refused to return as well.

There was an entire political/media apparatus that leaned heavily towards (excessive) precaution... So I'm sure a lot of parents were on board too.

 

[ihhawk]

Thank god I live in a great State with a Governor that followed the science

 

[thewop]

I thought the initial closure in the spring was reasonable enough. Then we started getting a handle on the disease and it was apparent children were low risk and not as much of a threat to spread the disease. That's when I started leaning towards returning to school

Yeah I was ok dealing with it until about May, but it seemed at that point we knew enough that for the fall they ought to be able to get back in school.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

There was an entire political/media apparatus that leaned heavily towards (excessive) precaution... So I'm sure a lot of parents were on board too.

LOL...2,000+ people were dying every day. ICU's were overwhelmed. They were stacking bodies in refrigerator trucks. A large percentage of people knew someone who died. Would you not think "(excessive) precaution" might be warranted in such a situation?

 

[Ray Kinsella]

<shrugs> Oh, well, we tried our best. We were just going with the best science at the time. Nothing political about it at all. We would certainly have been open to discuss various competing evidence without vilifying the messenger. But at this point, what's the value of looking back?

 

[SoDakHawk]

When Covid initially hit the public was fine with school closures, remote learning, and "two weeks to flatten the curve". Once we got into early summer and figured out that Covid wasn't what we initially thought there were many calling to reopen things and to end some of the policies we were following. Everything after that, from the lockdowns to the forced vaccines, turned out to be a massive power grab and a violation of our civil rights. The sad part is the scientific and medical community lost a lot of trust from the American public. Also sad is that we still haven't taken steps to get reparations from those responsible (China) for the damage they caused the world.

 

[dandh]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/upshot/pandemic-school-closures-data.html

“The more time students spent in remote instruction, the further they fell behind. And, experts say, extended closures did little to stop the spread of Covid.”

Note that we were NOT acting on our best evidence. By fall of 2020 we knew it would be better to open schools than to keep them closed. The most vulnerable continue to pay the price.

I remember you hammering away at this in 2020. I agreed with you at the time and also agree now. Horrible decisions made that have damaged a generation of kids, contrary to what science was actually saying.

 

[artradley]

Are you telling me that there were negative side effects during a global pandemic?

Well I for one am shocked!

In this case, mitigation policies - policies not well founded on the evidence at the time - had negative side effects. Remember, the American Academy of Pediatrics released a statement that schools should try to return to in-class, because the “side effects” of remote schooling (which for many meant no schooling whatsoever) would be worse than the risks of COVID on young people, and would have minimal impact on COVID’s spread.

Plenty of people on both sides of the aisle were not following the evidence or the recommendations of experts.

 

[artradley]

<shrugs> Oh, well, we tried our best. We were just going with the best science at the time. Nothing political about it at all. We would certainly have been open to discuss various competing evidence without vilifying the messenger. But at this point, what's the value of looking back?

The point is that we we NOT going with the best science at the time. Many decisions were being made based on a kind of mass hysteria, and this was one of them. The point on any post-mortem is to look back at things when we are no longer in the heat of the moment to review what mistakes were made so we can hopefully do better the next time.

 

[SolarHawk]

Thank god I live in a great State with a Governor that followed the science

Following the science had nothing to do with it. Desantis governs on emotion and how he can “own the libs”. It’s why he got obliterated on the national stage. He’s a fvcking clown.

 

[McLovin32]

Following the science had nothing to do with it. Desantis governs on emotion and what his polling tells him to. It’s why he got obliterated on the national stage. He’s a fvcking clown.

But at least he's got some killer boots, man.

 

[artradley]

Following the science had nothing to do with it. Desantis governs on emotion and what his polling tells him to. It’s why he got obliterated on the national stage. He’s a fvcking clown.

Yeah, a lot of governors who occasionally made the right decision did it for the wrong reasons.

 

[MitchLL]

That’s apparently a small minority who gather here on HROT to cry and moan. The rest of Iowa is going on with their lives.

You know nothing about Iowa politics other than what you see in this forum.

Just as I knew nothing about Florida politics until RonnyBoy became a candidate.

 

[MitchLL]

Appears we have an abundance of armchair quarterbacks today with the "I told you so" approach.

Kinda like betting on the 49ers vs Chiefs on the day after the Super Bowl.

 

[jneffer]

The point is that we we NOT going with the best science at the time. Many decisions were being made based on a kind of mass hysteria, and this was one of them. The point on any post-mortem is to look back at things when we are no longer in the heat of the moment to review what mistakes were made so we can hopefully do better the next time.

for people willing and capable of doing that kind of good faith retrospective examination...i'd agree. the problem that is not the goal of most post covid discussions.

truth is that successful mitigation of any pandemic is almost always going to look liek "overkill"...because the whole point is to prevent from progressing to outright devastation and no one knows where that line is at the time

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

Appears we have an abundance of armchair quarterbacks today with the "I told you so" approach.

Kinda like betting on the 49ers vs Chiefs on the day after the Super Bowl.

The data spoke by mid summer that year, and it said that kids had a non existent risk of death without pre existing conditions. The states that did remote learning for a year or more were completely ignoring a mountain of data. And anyone with kids quickly realized how little was being learned by young kids in remote settings.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

EL OH EL.



Now go back and read how some of the pencil dicks even cheered knowing they were taking it to far.

Just remember folks, its the democrats that think we need to keep everything locked down.

Bumppppppp.

iowa.forums.rivals.com

 

[Fijimn]

The issue should be studied because there will be another pandemic. However, a lot of these opinion pieces bleed into the correlation v. causation dichotomy. There is also a risk of shoehorning systemic failures in the school systems (race/economic gaps, poor funding, over crowding) into Covid-19 related lapses. Texas was one of the first states to open the schools (Fall of 2020) and yet its students find themselves "behind."

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Appears we have an abundance of armchair quarterbacks today with the "I told you so" approach.

Kinda like betting on the 49ers vs Chiefs on the day after the Super Bowl.

I bumped a thread for over a year knowing this would play out the way it did.

 

[WisestIowan]

Anyone with a brain knew it was a bad decision in spring 2020. Unfortunately, many folks in this country (and this board) don't seem to have a brain.

 

[artradley]

for people willing and capable of doing that kind of good faith retrospective examination...i'd agree. the problem that is not the goal of most post covid discussions.

truth is that successful mitigation of any pandemic is almost always going to look liek "overkill"...because the whole point is to prevent from progressing to outright devastation and no one knows where that line is at the time

I guess I have trouble viewing ours as a “successful mitigation.”

And the point in this case is that the experts knew this particular “mitigation effort” was unlikely to be very useful, and also knew the side effects would be devastating. It can hardly be considered “an over abundance of caution” to do something we know is going to have serious negative affects. That is the opposite of cautious.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

I disagree with the premise in OP's post. Its more likely lazy parents that didn't make sure their kids were doing the online learning.

 

[Joes Place]

“The more time students spent in remote instruction, the further they fell behind. And, experts say, extended closures did little to stop the spread of Covid.”

Actually, the school closings protected our older teachers, so that we did not run out of teachers.
Funny they don't want to mention that (and my sister's school had to shut down classes due to a lack of healthy teachers, I believe she said twice)

 

[Joes Place]

The issue should be studied because there will be another pandemic. However, a lot of these opinion pieces bleed into the correlation v. causation dichotomy. There is also a risk of shoehorning systemic failures in the school systems (race/economic gaps, poor funding, over crowding) into Covid-19 related lapses. Texas was one of the first states to open the schools (Fall of 2020) and yet its students find themselves "behind."

When you run out of healthy teachers, it ends up not mattering if you "opened" or not...

 

[Joes Place]

The data spoke by mid summer that year, and it said that kids had a non existent risk of death without pre existing conditions.

But they actually had other risks...

Millions of US Children Experience Range of Long COVID Effects

About 6 million children in the US might be living with post–COVID-19 condition, also known as long COVID. A recent narrative review in Pediatrics parsed the existing research from the past 3 years about how long COVID presents in children and what the risk factors are for developing the condition.

jamanetwork.com

 

[McLovin32]

I bumped a thread for over a year knowing this would play out the way it did.

It is fun looking at old posts that are incorrect

Bout this recession we are going into.....