And I completely agree with your last sentence. Cubs don't appear to have done anything illegal. It's a nightmare for many teams if the ruling is in Bryant's favor.
*****Official Cubs 2020 thread*****
- Thread starter QChawks
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It's going to be crazy if KB wins. Any fairly prominent player who was a fairly prominent player that didn't start the season on the MLB roster might make a pitch or use it as leverage to get their team to get a deal on the table. There will be guys who were legitimately kept down, but came up due to an injury and got off to a quick start who will have fairly reasonable cases. Hell, Even in Bryant's case, blatant as it was, I think the Cubs were going to keep him in AAA to some point past the service time date, but then Mike Olt got hurt and the Cubs choked through a couple of games to get to the service time date and then brought KB up.
Either way, they were blatantly using the service time clock to their advantage, but IIRC at the time, the plan was to have KB play all of April and possibly May. It would have been the same thing, but not nearly as obviously gratuitous as literally crossing the barrier and then calling him up the next day.
Lots and lots of money is like a kiss from mommy on a skinned knee when it comes to free agents.
You're right, but I don't see the Cubs paying Bryant what some other teams will. It's likely he's traded before it gets to that.
Now that the LAD missed on Rendon... they might be a trading partner for the Cubs. Without looking, LAD typically has a pretty good farm system.
A few thoughts:
1. It would have been organizational malpractice if the Cubs had not manipulated KB's service time. MLB organizations need to solely be focused on what they can do (within the rules) to maximize their potential to win (setting aside ROI for ownership).
2. I'm starting to hope that the Cubs improve their team at the margins, and bring back the same group. Spending big is out of the question, their farm system is a steaming pile (Thank you Theo Epstein and Jason McLeod) and the few trade assets they do have are necessary for winning.
3. 2021 is the year that I want them to trade KB and Contreras. The team will be bad in 2021 as they only have 2 starting pitchers who will be under contract (Hendricks and Darvish), a core that will be "aging" at that time, and a horrific pitching situation. Waiting for the Epstein fanboys to tell me about all of the pitching talent in the "lower levels" of the minors that I've been hearing about for 2.5 years.
1. It would have been organizational malpractice if the Cubs had not manipulated KB's service time. MLB organizations need to solely be focused on what they can do (within the rules) to maximize their potential to win (setting aside ROI for ownership).
2. I'm starting to hope that the Cubs improve their team at the margins, and bring back the same group. Spending big is out of the question, their farm system is a steaming pile (Thank you Theo Epstein and Jason McLeod) and the few trade assets they do have are necessary for winning.
3. 2021 is the year that I want them to trade KB and Contreras. The team will be bad in 2021 as they only have 2 starting pitchers who will be under contract (Hendricks and Darvish), a core that will be "aging" at that time, and a horrific pitching situation. Waiting for the Epstein fanboys to tell me about all of the pitching talent in the "lower levels" of the minors that I've been hearing about for 2.5 years.
i think they can trade contreras and get better.
sounds like a great player the cubs could use
Al Yellon brought it up a few days ago. It is intriguing.
https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/12/10/21004998/cubs-trade-rumor-nationals-kris-bryant
I'm already getting depressed over next season and the immediate future. Just hoping the Cubs strike gold and hit in some players in a few unexpected places. Players that we have in the system that can break out and perform well beyond current projections.
You realize a “window” doesn’t mean 5 rings, right? The window opened in 2015 with an NLCS run. NLCS in 2017 and ended the 2018 regular season tied for the best record in the NL. 2019 contended all season until a late collapse.
As for the payroll, the Cubs are still going to be paying $200M, that's not exactly closing the wallet.
Things haven't gone as hoped due largely to the fact that they've developed virtually no cost- controlled good pitching, but it's not like they haven't contended and it's not like the Ricketts are pulling a page out of the marlins' play book.
Just a in general thing, but I keep hearing a lot about the Ricketts family trying to cut corners. I think it is very clear that they want to ride the luxury tax line, but they are not going cheap. There was a discussion on the Score yesterday where I heard the purchase of the Cubs from Sam Zell (May he burn in Hell some day), required the Ricketts family to take on a lot of leveraged debt. That portion is due, and they can now focus on the general debt, and the family won't pay for good players because they have to pay off debt. The other odd thing was an article Al Yellon has up, where he discusses a lawsuit against the Cubs for violating the ADA in it's renovations of Wrigley. Lots of speculation in the article that Yellon discusses. It seems silly at face value. There is a lot that goes into a large renovation like that, and it seems very obvious the Cubs are compliant. But, into the article creeps the idea that the Cubs skimped on renovations in order to save money.
I am not in the Ricketts family board room, but I have to believe they have good ideas on money, and a long term vision that separates components of their businesses from day to day operations of the team. I also believe that Tom has probably mentioned to Theo that for all the money he's given him, Theo has given out some s*** contracts, and he'd like him to sharpen up a little. But, he certainly hasn't told Theo he can't spend money, or he has to slash payroll.
I am not in the Ricketts family board room, but I have to believe they have good ideas on money, and a long term vision that separates components of their businesses from day to day operations of the team. I also believe that Tom has probably mentioned to Theo that for all the money he's given him, Theo has given out some s*** contracts, and he'd like him to sharpen up a little. But, he certainly hasn't told Theo he can't spend money, or he has to slash payroll.
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Intriguing rumor floating around that the Cubs and Rockies may swap third basemen. The Cubs would be willing to take on Nolan Arenado and his sizable contract as the Rockies do a rebuild, and in return the get a serviceable player for 1-2 years. You'd have to add in other players, but this is the kind of creative stuff that Theo is going to have to do in order to improve the Cubs.
It depends on the end goal of cutting costs. If the Cubs are going to commit to being a $200M payroll team (staying right around, but under, the luxury tax), then that move would open a lot of possibilities. Sending Heyward away frees up $21M per year for two years and $22M per year for two years. That could allow the Cubs to go get a couple FAs this year or it could give them the room to lock in 1-2 of their core guys plus maybe do something where you deal someone like KB and take on salary in return (see the Arenado discussion a couple posts up).
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In all seriousness, they need to move this along. I can't really imagine a scenario where he wins. The system is very much set up against top young talent, but it was collectively bargained and there's really nothing requiring teams to provide a bunch of justification for when the do or do not decide to all people up. The Cubs absolutely used the date to maximize their own control, but that's also been done by any number of other teams.
JFC. There’s no way he wins. The players’ union agreed to the terms and—more importantly—if they found in his favor, it would affect a LOT of other teams/players and open a massive can of worms.
This should have been ruled for in favor of the Cubs 2 months ago. The longer it drags on the more worried I get. On the face of it KB has no case. But, it drags on for some reason.
they should have ruled in favor of the cubs in 2015.
Because there is no real news, and looking at the potential bullpen for the Cubs in 2020 makes me want to vomit in rage, here is a piece from Al Yellon about the one game Cubs of the decade. Pitcher Brian Matusz got a WS ring for getting shelled in a Sunday night starter against the Mariners. A game that featured an amazing Cubs rally with me cheering loudly in a hotel room on a family vacation.
https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/12/31/21043284/cubs-one-game-2010s-brian-matusz-pierce-johnson
https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/12/31/21043284/cubs-one-game-2010s-brian-matusz-pierce-johnson
I have no doubt that they're shopping him, but I have just as much no doubt that their asking price is really high. There is zero chance he's traded before the grievance is decided. It sounds like they've really been working hard to tie Contreras to Heyward's contract. As much as I'd hate to minimize the haul for Contreras, freeing up Heywards money for the rest of his contract would give the Cubs a lot more spending flexibility.
I think it's really clear that the Cubs are going to try to stay under the luxury tax threshold but not gut spending. They'll spend $195-200M. This is why I'm not making any evaluations on their roster yet. The Cubs currently don't have a ton of flexibility, but there are absolutely deals that could be made that suddenly change things substantially. Just citing a couple rumors that have been out there (not saying I think they'll happen, just laying out a scenario), if the Cubs were to trade KB for Max Fried and a couple prospects and successfully tie Contreras and Heyward in a deal somewhere, then the Cubs would have upgraded the rotation with a guy who is still pre-arb and freed up something like $45-50M in annual salary over the next two seasons. All of a sudden, that could change the Cubs position significantly. They'd have holes to fill, but also money to spend.
To what end? To gauge value? I don’t think they’d let too much hang out there if there wasn’t a desire to see if something can develop. I don’t buy into any of the talk that this affects KB negatively. He will get paid and be on a winner regardless.
they know they can’t enough value out of him to deal him so they pretend like they are so they can say they are doing something. The service time grievance is the best thing that happened to Theo.
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If he produces, he'll get paid. To some extent, it doesn't matter if the Cubs are asking too much. He has a value with the Cubs and he has a value to each potential trade target. If there's no match, he'll play the season with the Cubs.
I do wish they'd resolve this grievance, whatever the outcome. It's been 4 years.
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