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*****Official HORT Golf General Discussion Thread*****

That's nice in theory but there's not a reasonable way to do so.
Yes there is… peer review of scores is available and then report these incidents to local/state golf associations.
I should not ge punished for posting all my scores (with the “soft cap”) because others chose to circumvent the rules for posting scores. This dude in Iowa needs to be sanctioned for a couple of years!
 
Yes there is… peer review of scores is available and then report these incidents to local/state golf associations.
I should not ge punished for posting all my scores (with the “soft cap”) because others chose to circumvent the rules for posting scores. This dude in Iowa needs to be sanctioned for a couple of years!
That is already in place but that doesn't make it effective. It's why the focus should be altered to give precedence to competitive scores. If someone wants to cheat their buddies on the weekends that's for them to handle. Just make it harder for players to come into events with artificially high handicaps.
 
That is already in place but that doesn't make it effective. It's why the focus should be altered to give precedence to competitive scores. If someone wants to cheat their buddies on the weekends that's for them to handle. Just make it harder for players to come into events with artificially high handicaps.
Again….my issue is that golfers like me are “punished” by this “soft” or “hard” cap because we follow the rules and post ALL of our scores…while others knowingly cheat by selectively posting scores. Back in the day, cards were “dropped” and posted by a club’s handicap chairman weekly… the Handicap Chrnn’s job was to verify/authenticate all member’s scores… and to ensure that all member’s tournament scores were indeed posted. The handicap chairmsb’s job has been replaced by “peer review”… hence everyone in GHIN has the potential to check another GHIN members scores and postings. I agree it’s not perfect now but it is really unfair now as compared to what it was before. Again, a golfer who is legit should not be punished in order to keep cheaters at a minimum.
 
Again….my issue is that golfers like me are “punished” by this “soft” or “hard” cap because we follow the rules and post ALL of our scores…while others knowingly cheat by selectively posting scores. Back in the day, cards were “dropped” and posted by a club’s handicap chairman weekly… the Handicap Chrnn’s job was to verify/authenticate all member’s scores… and to ensure that all member’s tournament scores were indeed posted. The handicap chairmsb’s job has been replaced by “peer review”… hence everyone in GHIN has the potential to check another GHIN members scores and postings. I agree it’s not perfect now but it is really unfair now as compared to what it was before. Again, a golfer who is legit should not be punished in order to keep cheaters at a minimum.
I understand what you are complaining about but you're not offering anything other than what is already being done. People are supposed to post all their scores but some don't. Some clubs monitor their tee sheets and expect scores to be entered for every round, but that's not consistent at all. Not to mention the vast majority of play occurs at public courses where there is no oversight at all. As with the rest of golf, it's based on the honor system. Unfortunately not everyone plays honorably.

That's why I propose having competitive rounds be much more impactful to the handicap than they are now. Likewise, that the soft/hard capping be regulated based on number of rounds rather than a calendar year. I think those are workable options that would make it more fair.
 
That is already in place but that doesn't make it effective. It's why the focus should be altered to give precedence to competitive scores. If someone wants to cheat their buddies on the weekends that's for them to handle. Just make it harder for players to come into events with artificially high handicaps.
I've played in probably 40 member/guests and have rarely seen sandbagging. If some dude goes 10 under at my home member-guest for any 18 holes, I'd seriously says there is a 25% chance he doesn't make it out of the parking lot without an incident. A couple years ago I won with my BIL who is a 5 ( he'd be a 1-2 but he has a duck hook almost every side, great partner) . Member we beat in the final 9 says "way to bring the best sandbagger" during the cocktail hour that night. I pointed out we won the final 9 with 4 pars (I net eagled the last hole). We ham and egged it the whole 3 days.
I see many more handicaps that are too low. Mostly ego and guys not putting out if out of the hole or not writing bad scores down. Here in Fla it gets windy a lot and if you don't post the real scores, you're just hurting yourself.
 
I understand what you are complaining about but you're not offering anything other than what is already being done. People are supposed to post all their scores but some don't. Some clubs monitor their tee sheets and expect scores to be entered for every round, but that's not consistent at all. Not to mention the vast majority of play occurs at public courses where there is no oversight at all. As with the rest of golf, it's based on the honor system. Unfortunately not everyone plays honorably.

That's why I propose having competitive rounds be much more impactful to the handicap than they are now. Likewise, that the soft/hard capping be regulated based on number of rounds rather than a calendar year. I think those are workable options that would make it more fair.
I say punish those who cheat not the ones who post their scores. Getting rid of any “cap” would be a start. I understand what the purpose of tge “cap” is… however, it misfires and doesn’t affect those who are gaming the system.
 
Hey, I'm curious what percentage of everyone's rounds are worthy of posting on GHIN?

I tend to play most my rounds with friends for fun. Rarely do I play counting my a clean round worth posting.
 
Hey, I'm curious what percentage of everyone's rounds are worthy of posting on GHIN?

I tend to play most my rounds with friends for fun. Rarely do I play counting my a clean round worth posting.
Do you have a GHIN? As long as you never “compete” in a tournament you’re ok…but if you ever “compete” in a tournament where a handicap is a factor…it gets shady.
There are folks out here that are working both ends against the middle a few times every season where there are prizes/money awarded based on “net scores” using accurate handicaps. I appears the guy from Hampton is one of them….and is being “outed” here.
 
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I say punish those who cheat not the ones who post their scores. Getting rid of any “cap” would be a start. I understand what the purpose of tge “cap” is… however, it misfires and doesn’t affect those who are gaming the system.
How does my proposal punish those who post their scores?

Getting rid of the cap would allow people to manipulate their handicaps even more.
 
Slope is 139 which is tough but Sawgrass, another TPC course, is 155. Jordan Spieth said in these conditions it's one of the easiest courses they play.

Slope shmope. My opinion only (not saying I’m right) is slope isn’t a good indicator of difficulty. Rating is.

As an exercise, let’s compare.

We can all agree that the set up at Sawgrass is significantly more difficult than Deere Run. Assuming that:

- The average winning score over the last 4 years (post COVID) at Sawgrass is -16 (272).
- The average winning score over the last 4 years (post Covid) at the JDC is -22 (262).

Sawgrass, over the last 4 years, is 2.5 strokes more difficult for the PGA Tour professionals. You could argue that theory because Sawgrass has 2 more par 5’s which for pros make it easier but for this exercise let’s ignore that.

But let’s dig deeper, shall we?

- Sawgrass is set up, in theory, significantly more difficult, especially on the weekend.
- The average world ranking (we can argue relevance of the WGR later) of the field at Sawgrass is significantly higher than the JDC. After all, the Players is the “5th major” and the top 50 in the WGR almost Always compete among other players that are all in the top 175.
- The JDC, year over year, is lucky is they get 10 of the top 50 to compete. Furthermore, at the JDC there are more players ranked >100 in the field than there are <100.
- The conclusion one could come to is when it comes to the strength of field, course set up, and course conditions (Bermuda grass v bent grass) is the vast majority of the TPC courses are pitch and putts for these guys (TPC Highlands at -22, Scottsdale -21, San Antonio -20).
- We can do the same exercise for Scottsdale or Boston if you’d like but we will get similar or even worse (for your argument) results.
- This experiment actually surprised me once I actually did the math. I’m not, but you could argue Deere Run is just as difficult (or just as easy) as Sawgrass considering the strength of field and course conditions.
 
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Slope shmope. My opinion only (not saying I’m right) is slope isn’t a good indicator of difficulty. Rating is.

As an exercise, let’s compare.

We can all agree that the set up at Sawgrass is significantly more difficult than Deere Run. Assuming that:

- The average winning score over the last 4 years (post COVID) at Sawgrass is -16 (272).
- The average winning score over the last 4 years (post Covid) at the JDC is -22 (262).

Sawgrass, over the last 4 years, is 2.5 strokes more difficult for the PGA Tour professionals. You could argue that theory because Sawgrass has 2 more par 5’s which for pros make it easier but for this exercise let’s ignore that.

But let’s dig deeper, shall we?

- Sawgrass is set up, in theory, significantly more difficult, especially on the weekend.
- The average world ranking (we can argue relevance of the WGR later) of the field at Sawgrass is significantly higher than the JDC. After all, the Players is the “5th major” and the top 50 in the WGR almost Always compete among other players that are all in the top 175.
- The JDC, year over year, is lucky is they get 10 of the top 50 to compete. Furthermore, at the JDC there are more players ranked >100 in the field than there are <100.
- The conclusion one could come to is when it comes to the strength of field, course set up, and course conditions (Bermuda grass v bent grass) is the vast majority of the TPC courses are pitch and putts for these guys (TPC Highlands at -22, Scottsdale -21, San Antonio -20).
- We can do the same exercise for Scottsdale or Boston if you’d like but we will get similar or even worse (for your argument) results.
- This experiment actually surprised me once I actually did the math. I’m not, but you could argue Deere Run is just as difficult (or just as easy) as Sawgrass considering the strength of field and course conditions.
Slope rating takes into account far more detail than course rating. They could make Deere Run harder by narrowing the fairways and growing the rough but the greens would still be quite easy by comparison.

Plainly put, the course rating tells you how difficult a course is for a scratch player. If a course rating is, say, 72.3, that means a scratch golfer is expected to average 72.3 on his or her better rounds there. It’s a fairly easy metric to understand because it’s measured in strokes.

The slope rating can be harder to grasp because it gets into relative difficulty, taking into account players who are scratch and players who are not. That comparison gives you the Slope Rating. Arriving at this number requires the keen eye of experts and a good amount of math.
 
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It's very cool. Played there two years ago. Very surprising to see a home complex right in the middle of the course. Also, at the outward turn, your right in the flight path of the Prestwick Airport. When we were there training flights were coming in every 10 minutes or so. Seemed like you could hit them with a wedge. Great experience.
 
Played it with a customer last month.
Not impressed.
Curious what you didn't like about it because I loved the course and would play it again. The greens were in fantastic shape. It's one of those courses that would be even better on the 2nd, 3rd 4th time playing, once you get to know it. There are a few blind shots and many other areas where you really need to place your shots to setup for the next shot. Previous experience on the course would definitely be helpful.

I've played courses that range from really nice to goat tracks, older courses to newer courses. UofM course is an old parkland course that has a fun layout and is in good shape. Could it be better? Yes, but it is no goat track. It has some good bones to it and is a nice change from courses that were designed in the last 30 years or so.

Speaking with the starter, it is appalling to me that UofM won't put more resources into the course, starting with that historic clubhouse they have boarded up. If they really wanted to pimp that place out it could be a real gem.
 
Every round should be posted.
Nah. I often decide before the round starts whether it is going to be a "practice" round or a "gamer" round. Practice round I am doing all sorts of stuff, trying different shots, playing hero shots to see if I can pull it off, doing things I normally would not do if it was a "gamer" round that I am counting.

I also don't play any competitive golf, no member/guests, not even men's league. I don't even technically carry a GHIN handicap. I track everything through the Grint app, which has me at about a 12. So none of this really applies to me, unless somebody asks me to fill in for men's league or play a member/guest, both which only happen maybe once a year.

My 12 handicap is a product of a couple blow up holes each round, usually due to poor tee shots. I am one of those players who are great to have as a partner in a 4-man scramble because I have distance in my game and can make shots, I'll just blow a couple of shots per side that a partner would need to pick me up on.
 
Good God man. I’m dying here.



@WisestIowan

As of now in my year long big $ salary cap league I have:

Rory, Bryson, Hatton, Cam Young, Pavon, Bhatia. Subject to change. Best 3 scores is the format. If you have more than 3 MC you get the worst score of the day as your placeholder (I have never had to worry about that, knock on wood).

As far as Vegas bets I have:

Rory (1/2 unit) at +800
Koepka (1/4 unit) at +4300
Hatton (1/2 unit) at +2800
Scott (1/4 unit) at +6000
Morikawa (1/4 unit) at +1650
Cam Smith (1/4 unit) at +4500

I also still have Koepka in my preseason bets to win any major (I already hit the first 3 on my preseason prediction bets). That's 1/2 unit at +500.
 
Slope rating takes into account far more detail than course rating. They could make Deere Run harder by narrowing the fairways and growing the rough but the greens would still be quite easy by comparison.

Plainly put, the course rating tells you how difficult a course is for a scratch player. If a course rating is, say, 72.3, that means a scratch golfer is expected to average 72.3 on his or her better rounds there. It’s a fairly easy metric to understand because it’s measured in strokes.

The slope rating can be harder to grasp because it gets into relative difficulty, taking into account players who are scratch and players who are not. That comparison gives you the Slope Rating. Arriving at this number requires the keen eye of experts and a good amount of math.

Absolutely. But we're talking about PGA Tour Professionals in this thread and the fact that TPC courses are, in my opinion, pitch and putts for those guys. Considering we're comparing Touring Professional's scores slope is irrelevant (in my opinion).
 
Nah. I often decide before the round starts whether it is going to be a "practice" round or a "gamer" round. Practice round I am doing all sorts of stuff, trying different shots, playing hero shots to see if I can pull it off, doing things I normally would not do if it was a "gamer" round that I am counting.

I also don't play any competitive golf, no member/guests, not even men's league. I don't even technically carry a GHIN handicap. I track everything through the Grint app, which has me at about a 12. So none of this really applies to me, unless somebody asks me to fill in for men's league or play a member/guest, both which only happen maybe once a year.

My 12 handicap is a product of a couple blow up holes each round, usually due to poor tee shots. I am one of those players who are great to have as a partner in a 4-man scramble because I have distance in my game and can make shots, I'll just blow a couple of shots per side that a partner would need to pick me up on.
That's legit as there are "practice" rounds - generally those are alone since it takes time to do so. The rounds being discussed are any that you play where you're not specifically practicing which is the vast majority of rounds. There are far too many people who shoot a good round and then don't post the score.

If you're not playing in handicap tournaments it doesn't matter much.
 
As of now in my year long big $ salary cap league I have:

Rory, Bryson, Hatton, Cam Young, Pavon, Bhatia. Subject to change. Best 3 scores is the format. If you have more than 3 MC you get the worst score of the day as your placeholder (I have never had to worry about that, knock on wood).

As far as Vegas bets I have:

Rory (1/2 unit) at +800
Koepka (1/4 unit) at +4300
Hatton (1/2 unit) at +2800
Scott (1/4 unit) at +6000
Morikawa (1/4 unit) at +1650
Cam Smith (1/4 unit) at +4500

I also still have Koepka in my preseason bets to win any major (I already hit the first 3 on my preseason prediction bets). That's 1/2 unit at +500.
I won’t be shocked if Hatton wins a major at some point in his career, but right now that man is a freaking psycho.
 
Absolutely. But we're talking about PGA Tour Professionals in this thread and the fact that TPC courses are, in my opinion, pitch and putts for those guys. Considering we're comparing Touring Professional's scores slope is irrelevant (in my opinion).
We're comparing two different TPC courses. One, Sawgrass, being much harder than another, Deere Run.

Also, the Tournament Players Championship winner has only been at -20 once in the last 10 tournaments and that was this year with Scottie Scheffler. The Deere Classic has been at -20 or lower 7 times with this year being -28. The average winning scores during that time is -14.8 for TPC and -21.9 for DC. And that's with many more top players playing the TPC. There is no doubt that TPC Sawgrass is much harder than TPC Deere Run.
 
Best thing that could happen in golf would be for Rory to win it.

I'm not saying he will, just saying it would be great for the game.

Unfortunately he probably has the most pressure to win a major at this time.

You could say Tiger but he's so far from winning anything he really doesn't have pressure. He may never win again, not even on the Champions Tour.
 
I'll take Woods to miss the cut.

Then its up in the air still on my picks.

I might take Bryson again. Hopefully I don't get judged on here again like I did for my US Open pick.... which he won... ;)
 
Okay you magnificent bastards. Moving to the second best and final major:
Give me your:

Core 4
Longshots
and Fade

Core - Finau, Aberg, Schauffele, Lowry

Longshots - Pavon, Bradley, Rai, Harman

Fade - Scottie because I’m a Moran - I have this on hot key

Still waiting for weather forecast to lock in.
 
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