Okay, how about this alternative minimum wage idea?

[The Tradition]

Youth unemployment is more than twice the rate of the general population. I believe it is important for teens to have jobs to learn employment skills and successful habits, understand the value of a dollar, and to gain resume bullet points. Sadly, our teens are competing against adults who never did anything with their lives and occupy most minimum wage jobs. I'm literally shocked every time I see some middle aged person working the counter at a fast food joint. WTF?

So, here's my idea: raise the minimum wage if we must, but I think there should be a lower one for teen workers who are tax dependents of their parents. This helps businesses control labor costs, and provides an incentive to give inexperienced teens a chance to gain all the benefits of working.

What say the HROT?

 

[OILCHECKER]

Youth unemployment is more than twice the rate of the general population. I believe it is important for teens to have jobs to learn employment skills and successful habits, understand the value of a dollar, and to gain resume bullet points. Sadly, our teens are competing against adults who never did anything with their lives and occupy most minimum wage jobs. I'm literally shocked every time I see some middle aged person working the counter at a fast food joint. WTF?

So, here's my idea: raise the minimum wage if we must, but I think there should be a lower one for teen workers who are tax dependents of their parents. This helps businesses control labor costs, and provides an incentive to give inexperienced teens a chance to gain all the benefits of working.

What say the HROT?

If I am employee and can pay a teenager significantly less, why would I hire any adults?

 

[The Tradition]

If I am employee and can pay a teenager significantly less, why would I hire any adults?

That's the point. Burger flippers, movie ushers, grocery stockers... these should be "entry level" jobs for teens. Not careers for people who aren't motivated to make more of themselves.

 

[moral_victory]

I'm literally shocked every time I see some middle aged person working the counter at a fast food joint. WTF?

Free trade agreements have sent many of the factory jobs that did exist overseas. The service market and department store has to employee a lot more of the would be factory workers. Some top employers are 1. Wal-Mart 2 Yum! 3. Mcdonalds 6. Target 7. Kroger 8. Home Depot

So, here's my idea: raise the minimum wage if we must, but I think there should be a lower one for teen workers who are tax dependents of their parents

This also reads as increase the number of adults on social programs.

 

[moral_victory]

these should be "entry level" jobs for teens.

Yeah they should be, but we will need to address why adults are now in these jobs at a higher rate.

 

[The Tradition]

This also reads as increase the number of adults on social programs.

Not if the parents potentially lose assistance if their child earns an income and it pushes the household income beyond the threshold. It could actually help get families off of assistance programs.

 

[BondHawk]

Youth unemployment is more than twice the rate of the general population. I believe it is important for teens to have jobs to learn employment skills and successful habits, understand the value of a dollar, and to gain resume bullet points. Sadly, our teens are competing against adults who never did anything with their lives and occupy most minimum wage jobs. I'm literally shocked every time I see some middle aged person working the counter at a fast food joint. WTF?

So, here's my idea: raise the minimum wage if we must, but I think there should be a lower one for teen workers who are tax dependents of their parents. This helps businesses control labor costs, and provides an incentive to give inexperienced teens a chance to gain all the benefits of working.

What say the HROT?

I think I like it, as students are the ones that should be working minimum wage anyway.

 

[The Tradition]

Yeah they should be, but we will need to address why adults are now in these jobs at a higher rate.

Who would you hire?

Applicant #1: Laid off factory worker with 10 years of experience working an assembly line; HS diploma; really motivated to get a job.

Applicant #2: No job experience whatsoever; still in high school (so scheduling is restricted); is applying for the job to get money for Friday night date night (oh, did I mention I can't work on Friday nights?)

 

[moral_victory]

Not if the parents potentially lose assistance if their child earns an income and it pushes the household income beyond the threshold. It could actually help get families off of assistance programs.

How do you even math?

 

[timinatoria]

That's the point. Burger flippers, movie ushers, grocery stockers... these should be "entry level" jobs for teens. Not careers for people who aren't motivated to make more of themselves.

 

[moral_victory]

Who would you hire?

Applicant #1: Laid off factory worker with 10 years of experience working an assembly line; HS diploma; really motivated to get a job.

Applicant #2: No job experience whatsoever; still in high school (so scheduling is restricted); is applying for the job to get money for Friday night date night (oh, did I mention I can't work on Friday nights?)

You are ignoring the point to push your own.

 

[OILCHECKER]

That's the point. Burger flippers, movie ushers, grocery stockers... these should be "entry level" jobs for teens. Not careers for people who aren't motivated to make more of themselves.

What is an entry level job and what is not? Who says that every adult that works at one of these jobs is looking at it as a career? Some of these people actually are motivated and are working at these jobs as a secondary source of income or are working their way through college to better themselves. Or what if my goal is to someday own or manage my own store, fast food joint, etc, so I am working my way up through the business?

 

[The Tradition]

How do you even math?

Can you ask that again in English?

 

[bdg8]

If I am employee and can pay a teenager significantly less, why would I hire any adults?

Because you would have to deal with kids. I get your point and agree this wouldn't work but from talking to people , employing kids can be a pain

 

[moral_victory]

Can you ask that again in English?

Math how does i?

 

[The Tradition]

Furthermore, I would venture to guess that the lack of job opportunities for teens contributes to the overabundance of adults in minimum wage jobs. They don't get the chance to learn how to be an employee and end up non-competitive as an applicant in the labor market due to lack of experience and skills.

 

[moral_victory]

How does this read?

Black unemployment is more than twice the rate of the white population. I believe it is important for blacks to have jobs to learn employment skills and successful habits, understand the value of a dollar, and to gain resume bullet points. Sadly, our blacks are competing against whites who never did anything with their lives and occupy most minimum wage jobs. I'm literally shocked every time I see some white person working the counter at a fast food joint. WTF?

So, here's my idea: raise the minimum wage if we must, but I think there should be a lower one for blacks who are in existence. This helps businesses control labor costs, and provides an incentive to give inexperienced blacks a chance to gain all the benefits of working.

What say the HROT?

 

[cheeselog8]

What is an entry level job and what is not? Who says that every adult that works at one of these jobs is looking at it as a career? Some of these people actually are motivated and are working at these jobs as a secondary source of income or are working their way through college to better themselves. Or what if my goal is to someday own or manage my own store, fast food joint, etc, so I am working my way up through the business?

 

[moral_victory]

Furthermore, I would venture to guess that the lack of job opportunities for teens contributes to the overabundance of adults in minimum wage jobs. They don't get the chance to learn how to be an employee and end up non-competitive as an applicant in the labor market due to lack of experience and skills.

Furthermore.

 

[The Tradition]

What is an entry level job and what is not? Who says that every adult that works at one of these jobs is looking at it as a career? Some of these people actually are motivated and are working at these jobs as a secondary source of income or are working their way through college to better themselves. Or what if my goal is to someday own or manage my own store, fast food joint, etc, so I am working my way up through the business?

An "entry-level" job is usually the lowest rung on an organization's career ladder. Some "entry level" jobs require virtually no experience, education or special skills. Other professions have higher entry qualifications, but generally, it is expected that workers will have no direct experience in the industry/profession.

So, I guess the answer to your question is, it is fine to hold one of these jobs if you're starting your career late in life, or changing careers, but my problem are the people who occupy these jobs when they should be moving on to bigger and better things and making room for the next generation of people who need to learn how to work.

 

[The Tradition]

Furthermore.

"Services" is not just restaurants and retail. It includes law, healthcare, insurance, financial services. Just because you're in a "service" industry does not mean the pay is low.

 

[86Hawkeye]

Yeah they should be, but we will need to address why adults are now in these jobs at a higher rate.

Well, obviously, the 1% did it to them

 

[The Tradition]

How does this read?

Black unemployment is more than twice the rate of the white population. I believe it is important for blacks to have jobs to learn employment skills and successful habits, understand the value of a dollar, and to gain resume bullet points. Sadly, our blacks are competing against whites who never did anything with their lives and occupy most minimum wage jobs. I'm literally shocked every time I see some white person working the counter at a fast food joint. WTF?

So, here's my idea: raise the minimum wage if we must, but I think there should be a lower one for blacks who are in existence. This helps businesses control labor costs, and provides an incentive to give inexperienced blacks a chance to gain all the benefits of working.

What say the HROT?

Well that's a false analogy. Youth does not equal race. Blacks aren't living rent-free with a stocked fridge at their parents' house.

The point is to help kids gain work experience while they're still young so they can attain better jobs before they reach family-raising age. My idea is to help break the cycle of poverty due to a lack of marketable experience and skills.

 

[moral_victory]

"Services" is not just restaurants and retail. It includes law, healthcare, insurance, financial services. Just because you're in a "service" industry does not mean the pay is low.

Point taken. Care to address the fall in goods? This goes back to my earliest points that you conveniently grazed by.

Manufacturing jobs by year from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Well, obviously, the 1% did it to them

My claim is that bad trade deals are one of the culprits. Same thing Perot was saying, sounds like Trump agrees, and even Senator Sanders.

But why the random shout out for the 1 percent by you? High regulated "free trade deals" do benefit the 1% at a much higher rate than they represent the rest of us.

 

[moral_victory]

 

[The Tradition]

What does any of that have to do with the minimum wage?

By the way, factory jobs are awful. They're dangerous, bad for the environment, and typically employ the most-ruthless terms and conditions of employment over any other industry.

 

[naturalmwa]

I'd be more in favor of locking teens out of the labor market until they graduated. Teens have a job, go study.

 

[BondHawk]

I'd be more in favor of locking teens out of the labor market until they graduated. Teens have a job, go study.

Interesting. Can we mandate that wealthy business owners pay a portion of their profits to an "allowance fund" then? Because otherwise their parents will need more than $15/hour.

 

[The Tradition]

I'd be more in favor of locking teens out of the labor market until they graduated. Teens have a job, go study.

A major factor in determining the positive or negative effects of employment on the academic performance of students is their GPA. One would intuitively conclude that, because time and energy are finite resources, jobs would detract from studying and be harmful to a student’s GPA. Most studies conclude that this is only the case when the student’s number of hours worked per week exceeds 20 hours. In fact, students who work fewer than 15-20 hours often report higher GPAs than those who do not work at all (Dundes). The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), which is run by the U.S. Department of Education, found that students working 1-15 hours weekly have a significantly higher GPA than both students working 16 or more hours and students who don’t work at all. The NCES is the primary federal entity for collecting and analyzing data related to education.

http://www.byu.edu/hr/sites/default/files/effects_of_student_employment.pdf

 

[naturalmwa]

Interesting. Can we mandate that wealthy business owners pay a portion of their profits to an "allowance fund" then? Because otherwise their parents will need more than $15/hour.

I don't have the opinion that an allowance is essential enough to warrant a government program, but I'd be willing to horse trade if it was important to you. How about we pay kids for their grades? Make school a real job. If the main objection people have to raising the minimum wage is 16 and 17 year olds, this is an easy way to get rid of that objection.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

An "entry-level" job is usually the lowest rung on an organization's career ladder. Some "entry level" jobs require virtually no experience, education or special skills. Other professions have higher entry qualifications, but generally, it is expected that workers will have no direct experience in the industry/profession.

So, I guess the answer to your question is, it is fine to hold one of these jobs if you're starting your career late in life, or changing careers, but my problem are the people who occupy these jobs when they should be moving on to bigger and better things and making room for the next generation of people who need to learn how to work.

The problem is that we don't have enough non "entry level jobs" to take care of the adult population.

I keep hearing how these people should get some skilled etc etc. First of all thats not always easy. It's easy for those of us who where not required to support our parents or other family members when we where still in high school.

But secondly even if every adult had marketable skills there is not enough available jobs to provide one to the entire workforce. Everyone could be a master in every marketable skill on the earth and someone still has to work at McDonalds. There arn't enough good jobs out there.

 

[The Tradition]

I keep hearing how these people should get some skilled etc etc. First of all thats not always easy. It's easy for those of us who where not required to support our parents or other family members when we where still in high school.

It's damn sure easier as a teen that it is when you're a young adult with babies to feed.

But secondly even if every adult had marketable skills there is not enough available jobs to provide one to the entire workforce. Everyone could be a master in every marketable skill on the earth and someone still has to work at McDonalds. There arn't enough good jobs out there.

Everybody will not get a masters degree, so this hyperbole fails.

 

[The Tradition]

I don't have the opinion that an allowance is essential enough to warrant a government program, but I'd be willing to horse trade if it was important to you. How about we pay kids for their grades? Make school a real job. If the main objection people have to raising the minimum wage is 16 and 17 year olds, this is an easy way to get rid of that objection.

I guess you missed the research that says teens with a part-time job are better students than teens with no job.

 

[naturalmwa]

I guess you missed the research that says teens with a part-time job are better students than teens with no job.

I'm suggesting they have a different job.

 

[The Tradition]

I'm suggesting they have a different job.

You're still missing the point. Working makes them better at their learning job.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It's damn sure easier as a teen that it is when you're a young adult with babies to feed.

Except the teens are already working to support their parents. Many of them likely had to quit high school to do so.

Everybody will not get a masters degree, so this hyperbole fails.

It doesn't matter. My point is that we have so many people who need good paying jobs in order to support themselves and others in this country. No matter which way you look at it the number of *GOOD PAYING JOBS* is much much smaller then the number of people who need them.

My point is the whole advice of getting skills still does not take care of everyone.

Someone has to provide the money to care for these people. And that is either the taxpayer or it's the company that they work for.

 

[The Tradition]

Except the teens are already working to support their parents. Many of them likely had to quit high school to do so.



It doesn't matter. My point is that we have so many people who need good paying jobs in order to support themselves and others in this country. No matter which way you look at it the number of *GOOD PAYING JOBS* is much much smaller then the number of people who need them.

My point is the whole advice of getting skills still does not take care of everyone.

We can't save everyone. The best we can do is make things better for those willing to try.

 

[naturalmwa]

You're still missing the point. Working makes them better at their learning job.

I doubt even you think your study shows that. It shows that motivated teens get jobs. Motivated teens get better grades. Its doesn't show that jobs motivate teens. Now it might show that payments motivate teens, but I solve for that.

 

[moral_victory]

We can't save everyone. The best we can do is make things better for those willing to try.

Well with the exception of low wage low education workers. We should replace them with lower wage teenagers. Right?

 

[The Tradition]

I doubt even you think your study shows that. It shows that motivated teens get jobs. Motivated teens get better grades. Its doesn't show that jobs motivate teens. Now it might show that payments motivate teens, but I solve for that.

No, it's true. Because teens who worked more than 20 hours saw their GPA suffer, and those who worked zero hours did do as well as students working one to 20 hours.

Honestly, you can't study every waking hour of every day. Doing other things facilitates the learning process.