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Opinion Ginni Thomas called 2020 a ‘heist.’ Clarence Thomas must recuse himself.

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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No one should be quick to call for Supreme Court justices to recuse themselves from deciding cases.
The high court is unique. When lower court judges deem themselves disqualified, colleagues can easily step in to fill the void. That can’t happen at the Supreme Court. The absence of a justice can leave the court evenly split, an outcome that simply leaves the lower court decision in place without any guidance from the top.


Need something to talk about? Text us for thought-provoking opinions that can break any awkward silence.

Given the stakes involved, that is not a good outcome. As the Supreme Court’s new code of conduct explains, “A Justice is presumed impartial and has an obligation to sit unless disqualified.”
So, demands for recusal shouldn’t be lightly made, and justices shouldn’t quickly resort to that solution notwithstanding the clamor. Nonetheless, there are situations where law and common sense clearly counsel a justice to step aside.



That’s where things stand in the matter of Justice Clarence Thomas and the suite of Jan. 6-related cases now heading toward the Supreme Court. The extensive — indeed, passionate — involvement of the justice’s wife, Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, in challenging the election results is a textbook example of a situation that requires recusal.


Echoing the underlying federal law, the ethics code says a justice should recuse in situations where “the Justice’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned, that is, where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties.”
Could any unbiased and reasonable person doubt that Ginni Thomas’s avid participation in the “Stop the Steal” movement rises to that level? Justices’ spouses have every right to pursue separate careers, including careers in politics and advocacy, as Ginni Thomas chose. But those choices have consequences when cases in which they have an interest reach the Supreme Court. Consider:


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· In the weeks after the 2020 election, Ginni Thomas sent a series of urgent texts to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows encouraging him to prevent what she termed “the greatest Heist of our History.” Ginni Thomas referenced “a conversation with my best friend just now” — a description she has used to refer to her husband — as part of her effort “to keep holding on.” She urged that Sidney Powell — who is an unnamed co-conspirator in the federal Jan. 6 Trump indictment and pleaded guilty in the Georgia election interference case — should be made “the lead and the face” of Trump’s legal team.
· Ginni Thomas lobbied lawmakers in Wisconsin and Arizona to set aside Joe Biden’s victory and choose a different slate of pro-Trump presidential electors. “Please stand strong in the face of media and political pressure,” she wrote on Nov. 9, 2020. “Please reflect on the awesome authority granted to you by our Constitution. And then please take action to ensure that a clean slate of Electors is chosen for our state.”
· Ginni Thomas emailed with John Eastman, the lawyer and former Clarence Thomas clerk who argued that Vice President Mike Pence had the authority to block certification of Biden’s victory. Eastman is an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal election interference case against Trump and has been charged in Georgia as well.



· Finally, Ginni Thomas attended the “Stop the Steal” rally on Jan. 6, 2021.
Now consider the Jan. 6-related cases that have reached or are about to reach the high court. The justices have been asked to grant an expedited hearing on Trump’s claims that he enjoys absolute immunity from prosecution for his activities as president. It agreed to hear a challenge to the federal law prohibiting obstruction of a congressional proceeding, which has been used to prosecute Trump along with Jan. 6 protesters. And it will be called on to consider whether, as the Colorado Supreme Court just ruled, Trump can be disqualified from running under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Certainly, a spouse’s political activities can’t be automatically attributed to their partner. “Like so many married couples, we share many of the same ideals, principles, and aspirations for America. But we have our own separate careers, and our own ideas and opinions too,” Ginni Thomas told the Washington Free Beacon. “Clarence doesn’t discuss his work with me, and I don’t involve him in my work.”



Fine, but Ginni Thomas’s avid and multipronged fight to prevent Biden from taking office fits the recusal standard to a T — Clarence Thomas’s “impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” She was too involved, too entwined with the bid to overturn the election results — and some of the leading players in that bid — to have her husband sit on cases involving the aftermath of those very efforts.
The recusal rules are much better at dealing with relatively picayune matters of financial conflicts than they are at sorting through these deeper issues of bias. It’s clear, for example, that justices should recuse themselves if they hold stock in a company with a pending case, or if their spouse is a partner in a law firm representing a client before the court.
The paradox is that the more consequential the potential conflict, the more malleable the standards become. That is particularly problematic because, as the court made clear in its new code and accompanying commentary, justices determine for themselves whether they are disqualified — no one can make them do it.



As a practical matter, I suspect Thomas’s vote won’t be determinative in the presidential immunity and Section 3 cases; the scope of the obstruction statute is likely to be a closer case. The safer bet is that Thomas won’t recuse himself, but it’s not out of the question. After all, when an appeal by Eastman reached the high court in October, Thomas did announce that he did not participate in the decision not to hear the case, although he provided no explanation.
“Individual Justices, rather than the Court, decide recusal issues,” the court observed in releasing its new ethics code. Which means Thomas will be the judge of himself. But in this tumultuous term, it is the entire court whose reputation will suffer if he chooses not to step aside.


 
So is the question whether a justice should recuse themselves because of something a family member has said?
I believe Ginni has been more vocal and/or her comments more public, but do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?
In short, I don’t believe a family member’s comments/actions should force a justice to recuse themselves.
 
No one should be quick to call for Supreme Court justices to recuse themselves from deciding cases.
The high court is unique. When lower court judges deem themselves disqualified, colleagues can easily step in to fill the void. That can’t happen at the Supreme Court. The absence of a justice can leave the court evenly split, an outcome that simply leaves the lower court decision in place without any guidance from the top.


Need something to talk about? Text us for thought-provoking opinions that can break any awkward silence.

Given the stakes involved, that is not a good outcome. As the Supreme Court’s new code of conduct explains, “A Justice is presumed impartial and has an obligation to sit unless disqualified.”
So, demands for recusal shouldn’t be lightly made, and justices shouldn’t quickly resort to that solution notwithstanding the clamor. Nonetheless, there are situations where law and common sense clearly counsel a justice to step aside.



That’s where things stand in the matter of Justice Clarence Thomas and the suite of Jan. 6-related cases now heading toward the Supreme Court. The extensive — indeed, passionate — involvement of the justice’s wife, Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, in challenging the election results is a textbook example of a situation that requires recusal.


Echoing the underlying federal law, the ethics code says a justice should recuse in situations where “the Justice’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned, that is, where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties.”
Could any unbiased and reasonable person doubt that Ginni Thomas’s avid participation in the “Stop the Steal” movement rises to that level? Justices’ spouses have every right to pursue separate careers, including careers in politics and advocacy, as Ginni Thomas chose. But those choices have consequences when cases in which they have an interest reach the Supreme Court. Consider:


ADVERTISING


· In the weeks after the 2020 election, Ginni Thomas sent a series of urgent texts to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows encouraging him to prevent what she termed “the greatest Heist of our History.” Ginni Thomas referenced “a conversation with my best friend just now” — a description she has used to refer to her husband — as part of her effort “to keep holding on.” She urged that Sidney Powell — who is an unnamed co-conspirator in the federal Jan. 6 Trump indictment and pleaded guilty in the Georgia election interference case — should be made “the lead and the face” of Trump’s legal team.
· Ginni Thomas lobbied lawmakers in Wisconsin and Arizona to set aside Joe Biden’s victory and choose a different slate of pro-Trump presidential electors. “Please stand strong in the face of media and political pressure,” she wrote on Nov. 9, 2020. “Please reflect on the awesome authority granted to you by our Constitution. And then please take action to ensure that a clean slate of Electors is chosen for our state.”
· Ginni Thomas emailed with John Eastman, the lawyer and former Clarence Thomas clerk who argued that Vice President Mike Pence had the authority to block certification of Biden’s victory. Eastman is an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal election interference case against Trump and has been charged in Georgia as well.



· Finally, Ginni Thomas attended the “Stop the Steal” rally on Jan. 6, 2021.
Now consider the Jan. 6-related cases that have reached or are about to reach the high court. The justices have been asked to grant an expedited hearing on Trump’s claims that he enjoys absolute immunity from prosecution for his activities as president. It agreed to hear a challenge to the federal law prohibiting obstruction of a congressional proceeding, which has been used to prosecute Trump along with Jan. 6 protesters. And it will be called on to consider whether, as the Colorado Supreme Court just ruled, Trump can be disqualified from running under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Certainly, a spouse’s political activities can’t be automatically attributed to their partner. “Like so many married couples, we share many of the same ideals, principles, and aspirations for America. But we have our own separate careers, and our own ideas and opinions too,” Ginni Thomas told the Washington Free Beacon. “Clarence doesn’t discuss his work with me, and I don’t involve him in my work.”



Fine, but Ginni Thomas’s avid and multipronged fight to prevent Biden from taking office fits the recusal standard to a T — Clarence Thomas’s “impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” She was too involved, too entwined with the bid to overturn the election results — and some of the leading players in that bid — to have her husband sit on cases involving the aftermath of those very efforts.
The recusal rules are much better at dealing with relatively picayune matters of financial conflicts than they are at sorting through these deeper issues of bias. It’s clear, for example, that justices should recuse themselves if they hold stock in a company with a pending case, or if their spouse is a partner in a law firm representing a client before the court.
The paradox is that the more consequential the potential conflict, the more malleable the standards become. That is particularly problematic because, as the court made clear in its new code and accompanying commentary, justices determine for themselves whether they are disqualified — no one can make them do it.



As a practical matter, I suspect Thomas’s vote won’t be determinative in the presidential immunity and Section 3 cases; the scope of the obstruction statute is likely to be a closer case. The safer bet is that Thomas won’t recuse himself, but it’s not out of the question. After all, when an appeal by Eastman reached the high court in October, Thomas did announce that he did not participate in the decision not to hear the case, although he provided no explanation.
“Individual Justices, rather than the Court, decide recusal issues,” the court observed in releasing its new ethics code. Which means Thomas will be the judge of himself. But in this tumultuous term, it is the entire court whose reputation will suffer if he chooses not to step aside.


Don't you have 6 year olds to groom, freak?
 
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That would require him to have integrity and decency. Two qualities he lacks.

Yeah, Thomas is one of those Americans who has been emboldened by Trump - he realizes now a pretense of integrity is no longer necessary to the tens of millions of Americans who just want to own the libs, and to all of this is just a game.

He is showing just what a vile person he is, because he knows there will be no negative repercussions.
 
If you look, you will see that's to what I responded.
Yeah, but why would you ask for a link to question? The question of, “do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?”

You want a link to my question?
 
Yeah, but why would you ask for a link to question? The question of, “do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?”

You want a link to my question?

He wants a link to comments by relatives (preferably spouses) of other justices that might suggest the same kind of bias and Ginnie's. Because "both sides" just doesn't cut it.
 
No one should be quick to call for Supreme Court justices to recuse themselves from deciding cases.
The high court is unique. When lower court judges deem themselves disqualified, colleagues can easily step in to fill the void. That can’t happen at the Supreme Court. The absence of a justice can leave the court evenly split, an outcome that simply leaves the lower court decision in place without any guidance from the top.


Need something to talk about? Text us for thought-provoking opinions that can break any awkward silence.

Given the stakes involved, that is not a good outcome. As the Supreme Court’s new code of conduct explains, “A Justice is presumed impartial and has an obligation to sit unless disqualified.”
So, demands for recusal shouldn’t be lightly made, and justices shouldn’t quickly resort to that solution notwithstanding the clamor. Nonetheless, there are situations where law and common sense clearly counsel a justice to step aside.



That’s where things stand in the matter of Justice Clarence Thomas and the suite of Jan. 6-related cases now heading toward the Supreme Court. The extensive — indeed, passionate — involvement of the justice’s wife, Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, in challenging the election results is a textbook example of a situation that requires recusal.


Echoing the underlying federal law, the ethics code says a justice should recuse in situations where “the Justice’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned, that is, where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties.”
Could any unbiased and reasonable person doubt that Ginni Thomas’s avid participation in the “Stop the Steal” movement rises to that level? Justices’ spouses have every right to pursue separate careers, including careers in politics and advocacy, as Ginni Thomas chose. But those choices have consequences when cases in which they have an interest reach the Supreme Court. Consider:


ADVERTISING


· In the weeks after the 2020 election, Ginni Thomas sent a series of urgent texts to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows encouraging him to prevent what she termed “the greatest Heist of our History.” Ginni Thomas referenced “a conversation with my best friend just now” — a description she has used to refer to her husband — as part of her effort “to keep holding on.” She urged that Sidney Powell — who is an unnamed co-conspirator in the federal Jan. 6 Trump indictment and pleaded guilty in the Georgia election interference case — should be made “the lead and the face” of Trump’s legal team.
· Ginni Thomas lobbied lawmakers in Wisconsin and Arizona to set aside Joe Biden’s victory and choose a different slate of pro-Trump presidential electors. “Please stand strong in the face of media and political pressure,” she wrote on Nov. 9, 2020. “Please reflect on the awesome authority granted to you by our Constitution. And then please take action to ensure that a clean slate of Electors is chosen for our state.”
· Ginni Thomas emailed with John Eastman, the lawyer and former Clarence Thomas clerk who argued that Vice President Mike Pence had the authority to block certification of Biden’s victory. Eastman is an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal election interference case against Trump and has been charged in Georgia as well.



· Finally, Ginni Thomas attended the “Stop the Steal” rally on Jan. 6, 2021.
Now consider the Jan. 6-related cases that have reached or are about to reach the high court. The justices have been asked to grant an expedited hearing on Trump’s claims that he enjoys absolute immunity from prosecution for his activities as president. It agreed to hear a challenge to the federal law prohibiting obstruction of a congressional proceeding, which has been used to prosecute Trump along with Jan. 6 protesters. And it will be called on to consider whether, as the Colorado Supreme Court just ruled, Trump can be disqualified from running under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Certainly, a spouse’s political activities can’t be automatically attributed to their partner. “Like so many married couples, we share many of the same ideals, principles, and aspirations for America. But we have our own separate careers, and our own ideas and opinions too,” Ginni Thomas told the Washington Free Beacon. “Clarence doesn’t discuss his work with me, and I don’t involve him in my work.”



Fine, but Ginni Thomas’s avid and multipronged fight to prevent Biden from taking office fits the recusal standard to a T — Clarence Thomas’s “impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” She was too involved, too entwined with the bid to overturn the election results — and some of the leading players in that bid — to have her husband sit on cases involving the aftermath of those very efforts.
The recusal rules are much better at dealing with relatively picayune matters of financial conflicts than they are at sorting through these deeper issues of bias. It’s clear, for example, that justices should recuse themselves if they hold stock in a company with a pending case, or if their spouse is a partner in a law firm representing a client before the court.
The paradox is that the more consequential the potential conflict, the more malleable the standards become. That is particularly problematic because, as the court made clear in its new code and accompanying commentary, justices determine for themselves whether they are disqualified — no one can make them do it.



As a practical matter, I suspect Thomas’s vote won’t be determinative in the presidential immunity and Section 3 cases; the scope of the obstruction statute is likely to be a closer case. The safer bet is that Thomas won’t recuse himself, but it’s not out of the question. After all, when an appeal by Eastman reached the high court in October, Thomas did announce that he did not participate in the decision not to hear the case, although he provided no explanation.
“Individual Justices, rather than the Court, decide recusal issues,” the court observed in releasing its new ethics code. Which means Thomas will be the judge of himself. But in this tumultuous term, it is the entire court whose reputation will suffer if he chooses not to step aside.


Let me know when Joe recuses himself from his position due to his son.
 
He wants a link to comments by relatives (preferably spouses) of other justices that might suggest the same kind of bias and Ginnie's. Because "both sides" just doesn't cut it.
That’s not what I said. I asked, “do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?”

If I asked, “do you think Taylor Swift poops?” Would you then ask for a link of Taylor Swift pooping?
 
So is the question whether a justice should recuse themselves because of something a family member has said?
I believe Ginni has been more vocal and/or her comments more public, but do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?
In short, I don’t believe a family member’s comments/actions should force a justice to recuse themselves.
It's not her comments, but rather her actions. You don't think her action here warrant recusal? I think if any judge's spouse was directly involved is the case at hand, that judge should definitely sit out. How can the judge show impartiality?
 
That’s not what I said. I asked, “do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?”

If I asked, “do you think Taylor Swift poops?” Would you then ask for a link of Taylor Swift pooping?

Well, other family members have probably made “comments” about 1/6, but since we were talking about comments that displayed extreme bias I naturally assumed you were making a relevant comparison, not an irrelevant one. I will try to not make that mistake again.
 
That’s not what I said. I asked, “do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?”

If I asked, “do you think Taylor Swift poops?” Would you then ask for a link of Taylor Swift pooping?

The answer about other spouses trying to overthrow an election would be not only no but hell no. Ginnie is on tape with her efforts to overthrow the election. You certainly are not that dense. Maybe.
 
Let me know when Joe recuses himself from his position due to his son.
Saturday Night Live Wow GIF by NBC
 
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So is the question whether a justice should recuse themselves because of something a family member has said?
I believe Ginni has been more vocal and/or her comments more public, but do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?
In short, I don’t believe a family member’s comments/actions should force a justice to recuse themselves.
No, the question is should he recuse himself for what she did, participate in the coup.
 
What exactly is going before the courts? Is it Jan 6 capitol rioter/insurrection stuff or the legality of the election? I believe it’s the former.
Nothing from what I’ve read suggests she rioted or raided the capitol nor is it suggested she orchestrated any of it. If that’s the case, why would her comments about other stuff mean her husband should recuse himself?
 
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What exactly is going before the courts? Is it Jan 6 capitol rioter/insurrection stuff or the legality of the election? I believe it’s the former.
Nothing from what I’ve read suggests she rioted or raided the capitol nor is it suggested she orchestrated any of it. If that’s the case, why would her comments about other stuff mean her husband should recuse himself?
She, "Spoke to her friend", for one thing.
She pushed flawed legal arguments around the country in bad faith.
 
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What exactly is going before the courts? Is it Jan 6 capitol rioter/insurrection stuff or the legality of the election? I believe it’s the former.
Nothing from what I’ve read suggests she rioted or raided the capitol nor is it suggested she orchestrated any of it. If that’s the case, why would her comments about other stuff mean her husband should recuse himself?

You seem to have a lot of dumb questions. They get answered but you don't get it.
 
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That’s not what I said. I asked, “do you really think family members and relatives of other justices haven’t also made comments about 1/6?”

If I asked, “do you think Taylor Swift poops?” Would you then ask for a link of Taylor Swift pooping?

For one thing, there’s a very wide gulf between comments made in private vs public. She was very vocal and visible with her stance on the election.

Find anything similar from any other spouse of a justice and I’d agree they should recuse as well.
 
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What exactly is going before the courts? Is it Jan 6 capitol rioter/insurrection stuff or the legality of the election? I believe it’s the former.
Nothing from what I’ve read suggests she rioted or raided the capitol nor is it suggested she orchestrated any of it. If that’s the case, why would her comments about other stuff mean her husband should recuse himself?
Is Ginni Thomas in a leadership position with the Stop the Steal Organization? Was the purpose of Stop the Steal to overturn the results of an election?
 
As it stands now, no, I don’t think he needs to recuse himself. Unless his wife participated in the “insurrection “or contributed to it, I don’t know how her statements either public, or in private, would impact his decision. I also don’t think her attendance at the event has any significance either.
I see the conflict of interest if the court case is about the validity of the election, but not the “insurrection “.
 
As it stands now, no, I don’t think he needs to recuse himself. Unless his wife participated in the “insurrection “or contributed to it, I don’t know how her statements either public, or in private, would impact his decision. I also don’t think her attendance at the event has any significance either.
I see the conflict of interest if the court case is about the validity of the election, but not the “insurrection “.
She did participate.
 
Where did she participate in the insurrection? Are you confusing the rally which occurred outside as the insurrection?
 
The position that Clarence Thomas should recuse himself is so obvious it is remarkable that anyone is actually trying to defend it. However the righties know how damaging this is so they are trying to do it anyway and this is a sight to behold. They range from incoherent ramblings to inflamed deflection with the purpose of trying to derail the thread. A lot of desperation going on in this thread.

The sad part is, for some reason the DoJ isn't even hinting that Thomas recuse himself. I really wish I knew the reasoning as to why they don't.
 
The position that Clarence Thomas should recuse himself is so obvious it is remarkable that anyone is actually trying to defend it. However the righties know how damaging this is so they are trying to do it anyway and this is a sight to behold. They range from incoherent ramblings to inflamed deflection with the purpose of trying to derail the thread. A lot of desperation going on in this thread.

The sad part is, for some reason the DoJ isn't even hinting that Thomas recuse himself. I really wish I knew the reasoning as to why they don't.

Well, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of the DoJ ever trying to put pressure on an SC justice to recuse himself.

Not that I disagree mind you, but it would also start a precedent I’m not sure we want to see.
 
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