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Supreme Court Live Updates: Conservative Majority Seems Ready to Limit Election Case Against Trump

Worth repeating Judge Luttig's statement, regarding the fundamental FACT that Trump was warned by his own legal advisors/WH lawyer, that doing what he was doing was ILLEGAL and that he could be criminally charged for it:



Why is this not a major point being brought before the conservative judges, and forcing them to respond to it?
 


In the 14th Amendment case, the Court implicitly acknowledged that 18 U.S.C. 2383 (rebellion and insurrection) could apply to a former President, and provide adequate grounds for disqualification. So not sure why they are entertaining an argument that criminal laws writ large can't apply for a former POTUS unless it specifically mentions him. This is off the rails

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Worth repeating Judge Luttig's statement, regarding the fundamental FACT that Trump was warned by his own legal advisors/WH lawyer, that doing what he was doing was ILLEGAL and that he could be criminally charged for it:



Why is this not a major point being brought before the conservative judges, and forcing them to respond to it?

Alito doesn’t want to talk about the specifics of this case. The DOJ counsel repeatedly said the President has the unique advice of the Attorney General at his disposal
 
Alito doesn’t want to talk about the specifics of this case. The DOJ counsel repeatedly said the President has the unique advice of the Attorney General at his disposal
Alito’s mind works in many unique ways I have noticed. He is a justice with an agenda and his agenda is going to be his first concern. The law will take of itself.
 


In the 14th Amendment case, the Court implicitly acknowledged that 18 U.S.C. 2383 (rebellion and insurrection) could apply to a former President, and provide adequate grounds for disqualification. So not sure why they are entertaining an argument that criminal laws writ large can't apply for a former POTUS unless it specifically mentions him. This is off the rails

GMH0qOVW8AAu-2G
 
We're screwed folks. When you have one side willing to shred our democracy, you no longer have a democracy. It's clear now that Rs will use whatever tool they have to demolish fair elections, the rule of law, and even our form of government. What we know as America is pretty much over.
 
Alito doesn’t want to talk about the specifics of this case. The DOJ counsel repeatedly said the President has the unique advice of the Attorney General at his disposal

Who TOLD Trump what he was doing was improper, and that he could be charged with a crime for it
And also told Trump there was no merit to any "stolen election" claims.


This could not be any clearer; if Alito cannot rule reasonably in circumstances like this, what do you suppose happens when a President like Trump puts someone like John Eastman in as AG, who lies to him about what is "legal"?
 
We're screwed folks. When you have one side willing to shred our democracy, you no longer have a democracy. It's clear now that Rs will use whatever tool they have to demolish fair elections, the rule of law, and even our form of government. What we know as America is pretty much over.
When the SCOTUS's opinions do not conform to your principals naturally you feel they are now threatening democracy. But when other decisions have been made in the past that did conform, I dont recall you feeling the same way.

I felt the same in regard to the SCOTUS when it leaned less rightward the last 20 years. But I also understood this is the basis of our system and worked to change the results by voting for candidates that I knew would put Justices on that shared my philosophy. That is how the 'game' is played.

The fact is, the only real threat to democracy is the sedition is the Left is committing. In fact, Id suggest this is the textbook definition of it. You aren't questioning the court's pending decision. You, and others, are questioning the court's actual validity. The decisions that the SCOTUS makes are well understood to represent the law of the land.

If there is any threat to democracy it is coming from your side who now have the audacity to question even the validity of the court not just it's decisions and rulings. Don't pretend that this is simply you and a few others on here alone, it is represented publicly by some who are considered big thinkers on the Left.

I'm dead serious here. You really need to look inside and evaluate what is really the threat here. Publicly calling these decisions a threat to democracy. Publicly calling to expand the court. Biden nullifying the courts decisions via his statements and actions time and time again (Student loan forgiveness as an illustrative example). Making policy knowing it violates the court and stating that by the time it gets in front of them it wont matter.

The Left is a joke. The dont believe in Democracy. The only believe in using our democratic republic to further their agenda. Anything not in furtherance of it represents a threat and is prosecuted, protested and publicly scorned. Sad.
 
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When the SCOTUS's opinions do not conform to your principals naturally you feel they are now threatening democracy.

Ummm....these court positions are a direct threat to democracy.

Leading conservative voices are pointing this one out. Neither Liz Cheney nor Judge Luttig are "Democrats" who disagree with this court on "political" positions. They disagree on fully Constitutional grounds.

Maybe you should pay closer attention to what is actually going on here.
 
It's not like he tried to override the election results or honestly
Did that work? I honestkly think, and you clearly will feel otherwise, that he really felt the results were invalid. And he may have had good reason to feel that way. If in his duties as President, he wanted to right what he felt was a wrong, it may have looked like the situation that occurred.

Now could he have believed that he lost but wanted to defy the reults anyway? Perhaps. But I dont think that was the case. It wasnt as if he didnt have advisors and people on his side telling him that the election was a fraud and was stolen.
 
Did that work?
Just because it "didn't work" doesn't mean it wasn't a crime.

Do we let attempted bank robbers go free because they were "unsuccessful"?
Should I be able to try and find a hit-man to kill you, only to be thwarted by the FBI, so they just tell me to be a good boy and go home now?
 
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Did that work? I honestkly think, and you clearly will feel otherwise, that he really felt the results were invalid. And he may have had good reason to feel that way. If in his duties as President, he wanted to right what he felt was a wrong, it may have looked like the situation that occurred.

Now could he have believed that he lost but wanted to defy the reults anyway? Perhaps. But I dont think that was the case. It wasnt ask if he didnt have advisors and people on his side telling him that the election was a fraud and was stolen.

It fvcking almost worked...far, far closer than I ever would have imagined
 
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We all thought SCOTUS would simply kick the can down the road to delay things for Trump. We now know SCOTUS will actively protect him. The Court is compromised. It can not be trusted.
You're an enemy of the people clearly. No shame.
 
You're an enemy of the people clearly. No shame.
I'll be kind and just say that you are not a very smart person.

You fail to see the path that this court has taken in upending decades of precedent in many recent decisions, contrary to their testimonies during confirmation hearings, and in the process, has done everything in its power to delay a trial that would determine whether or not prior President Trump may have broken the law in his attemptS to overturn a legitimate election. His claims that it was stolen have repeatedly been proven false in dozens of cases in lower courts due to a total lack of evidence.

If Trump has proof that the election was "stolen", his "attorneys" have repeatedly failed to provide ANY evidence of ANY such event.

If Trump has a case to be made to prove his innocence, he should clearly want his day in court to prove his innocence, instead of having a very partial SCOTUS to run interference for him in the hope that his criminal charges can be dropped in the hope of him winning an election this fall.

I'll tell you this. If, he should win this fall, it will be considered an illegitimate election by a VAST majority of Americans which will tear this country apart. He will be an impotent president. If that's what you really want, I guess people like you can then turn in their American cards and return to their adversarial nations that hate this country and have been attempting to undermine our nation for years, especially since Trump has come onto the scene.

You mission will have been accomplished, and you will be richly rewarded upon your return home.

Come to your senses and see what is actually happening, if you are an actual patriotic American.
 
Did that work? I honestkly think, and you clearly will feel otherwise, that he really felt the results were invalid. And he may have had good reason to feel that way. If in his duties as President, he wanted to right what he felt was a wrong, it may have looked like the situation that occurred.

Now could he have believed that he lost but wanted to defy the reults anyway? Perhaps. But I dont think that was the case. It wasnt as if he didnt have advisors and people on his side telling him that the election was a fraud and was stolen.
You need to go watch the January 6th comitees investigation. It's all there. Trump was told numerous times by lawyers he lost and that what he was planning was illegal. He decided to listen to the wackos and he is being charged because of that.
 
I'll be kind and just say that you are not a very smart person.

You fail to see the path that this court has taken in upending decades of precedent in many recent decisions, contrary to their testimonies during confirmation hearings, and in the process, has done everything in its power to delay a trial that would determine whether or not prior President Trump may have broken the law in his attemptS to overturn a legitimate election. His claims that it was stolen have repeatedly been proven false in dozens of cases in lower courts due to a total lack of evidence.

If Trump has proof that the election was "stolen", his "attorneys" have repeatedly failed to provide ANY evidence of ANY such event.

If Trump has a case to be made to prove his innocence, he should clearly want his day in court to prove his innocence, instead of having a very partial SCOTUS to run interference for him in the hope that his criminal charges can be dropped in the hope of him winning an election this fall.

I'll tell you this. If, he should win this fall, it will be considered an illegitimate election by a VAST majority of Americans which will tear this country apart. He will be an impotent president. If that's what you really want, I guess people like you can then turn in their American cards and return to their adversarial nations that hate this country and have been attempting to undermine our nation for years, especially since Trump has come onto the scene.

You mission will have been accomplished, and you will be richly rewarded upon your return home.

Come to your senses and see what is actually happening, if you are an actual patriotic American.
I think it you that is not very smart.

The reason this case is important is because it relates to future Presidents. The Justices said as much.

Did you listen to the oral arguments? I did. Over 3 hours worth. All of it. Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas all with on point questions for both sides. Jackson seems to have little grasp of the topic as, IMO, her questions seemed lacked depth and any recognition of the Presidential powers historically. I was embarrassed by them frankly. Sotomayor, on the other hand, when she wasn't arguing the DOJs case for them directly, seemed to ask probing thoughtful questions.

This SCOTUS case CANNOT be simply about Trump. Yet the DOJ continues to try to frame the oral arguments as if this is the only part that matters. The repeated attempts by the DOJ in this case to describe why the country should be governed by laws that affect this case and how it affects this case is flawed. Over and over they describe to the Court why this actions of Trump warrant this application of the Courts prior decisions. They kept asserting actions by the President as if they were fact. He did this...he did that.... None of those 'facts' have been proven in court. Yet there they were making assertions as if they had. And based on those assumptions they carried that further and made connections as to why these action were personal not official acts.

As Gorsuch stated, this case will be applied for the ages. This isn't about one President and cant be viewed simply through this lens as the Left and the current administration, but I repeat myself, would like us to.

If even legal scholars cannot agree on this issue, certainly some rando on GIAOT isn't going to be able to make a compelling case honestly.
 
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I think it you that is not very smart.

The reason this case is important is because it relates to future Presidents.

Nope. Not at all.

No past President has committed criminal acts like Trump. If the Court rules properly & Constitutionally on this, no future one will, either.
 
If Trump has proof that the election was "stolen", his "attorneys" have repeatedly failed to provide ANY evidence of ANY such event.
This case is Trump vs US not US v Trump.

Point being, the case against Trump is not what is before the court. The case about whether there can be a case against Trump is what is.

Like it or not.

Read more then opine.
 
You need to go watch the January 6th comitees investigation. It's all there. Trump was told numerous times by lawyers he lost and that what he was planning was illegal. He decided to listen to the wackos and he is being charged because of that.
The fact he sought advice on these things from staff is what confirms to me his actions were part of official acts not personal.
 
The fact he sought advice on these things from staff is what confirms to me his actions were part of official acts not personal.
So, how many of his staffers agreed with him that what he was attempting to do, was in fact, legal? Cuz the Jan 6 committee didn't find any.

Your argument could hold water if he could produce any members of his administration who agreed that he could do what he has claimed, that absolute immunity was a thing. But he was told, OVER AND OVER again that he was wrong...AND HE KEPT DOING IT ANYWAY.

To this day, he is still claiming the election was stolen, that there was fraud. There was never been any evidence presented that has held up to support this.
 
I think it you that is not very smart.

The reason this case is important is because it relates to future Presidents. The Justices said as much.

Did you listen to the oral arguments? I did. Over 3 hours worth. All of it. Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas all with on point questions for both sides. Jackson seems to have little grasp of the topic as, IMO, her questions seemed lacked depth and any recognition of the Presidential powers historically. I was embarrassed by them frankly. Sotomayor, on the other hand, when she wasn't arguing the DOJs case for them directly, seemed to ask probing thoughtful questions.

This SCOTUS case CANNOT be simply about Trump. Yet the DOJ continues to try to frame the oral arguments as if this is the only part that matters. The repeated attempts by the DOJ in this case to describe why the country should be governed by laws that affect this case and how it affects this case is flawed. Over and over they describe to the Court why this actions of Trump warrant this application of the Courts prior decisions. They kept asserting actions by the President as if they were fact. He did this...he did that.... None of those 'facts' have been proven in court. Yet there they were making assertions as if they had. And based on those assumptions they carried that further and made connections as to why these action were personal not official acts.

As Gorsuch stated, this case will be applied for the ages. This isn't about one President and cant be viewed simply through this lens as the Left and the current administration, but I repeat myself, would like us to.

If even legal scholars cannot agree on this issue, certainly some rando on GIAOT isn't going to be able to make a compelling case honestly.
It applies to the future only IF this Court decides to do so. This Court has the means to make this decision as narrow as it wants. They could restrict it to the case in front of them if desired. However, this Court knows if it does so, that would violate the principle of “loyalty” which is the overwhelming driving force of this Court, as opposed to the law. Therefore a wider more expansive ruling works in this Court’s and the ex-Prwsident’s best interest…. And after all, #45 does demand loyalty first and foremost. The Chief Justice is the key vote here…his vote can sway one other vote. If he votes with the majority a 6-3 vote is likely…if Robert’s votes with the liberals, one more vote will join him and a 5-4 vote for the prosecution could result.
 
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I think it you that is not very smart.

The reason this case is important is because it relates to future Presidents. The Justices said as much.

Did you listen to the oral arguments? I did. Over 3 hours worth. All of it. Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas all with on point questions for both sides. Jackson seems to have little grasp of the topic as, IMO, her questions seemed lacked depth and any recognition of the Presidential powers historically. I was embarrassed by them frankly. Sotomayor, on the other hand, when she wasn't arguing the DOJs case for them directly, seemed to ask probing thoughtful questions.

This SCOTUS case CANNOT be simply about Trump. Yet the DOJ continues to try to frame the oral arguments as if this is the only part that matters. The repeated attempts by the DOJ in this case to describe why the country should be governed by laws that affect this case and how it affects this case is flawed. Over and over they describe to the Court why this actions of Trump warrant this application of the Courts prior decisions. They kept asserting actions by the President as if they were fact. He did this...he did that.... None of those 'facts' have been proven in court. Yet there they were making assertions as if they had. And based on those assumptions they carried that further and made connections as to why these action were personal not official acts.

As Gorsuch stated, this case will be applied for the ages. This isn't about one President and cant be viewed simply through this lens as the Left and the current administration, but I repeat myself, would like us to.

If even legal scholars cannot agree on this issue, certainly some rando on GIAOT isn't going to be able to make a compelling case honestly.
Before Trump, everybody agreed, a president is not king, they aren't immune from crimes. Only posts Trump have people like you have your brains rotted to the point where you pretend that presidents are kings.
 
Its about much more than that, its about our country as a democracy.
Agreed. It is.

Lets start with the fact we are not a democracy. We are a constitutional democratic republic. The subtlety may be lost on you but its relevant.

That is why the DOJ's attempts to frame this decision through the lens of the Trump case is misguided. And why the Justices questions probe deeper. To a biased observer it may appear that they are trying to create a scenario where they can rule for Trump however I believe they simply are playing long ball and trying not to base their decision on the matter at hand rather the constitution and separation of powers. How Congress can make law that regulates the President and be in keeping with these principles specifically.

These exact questions were well articulated by Justice Kavanaugh as it related to Morrison v Olson and his concerns that it was wrongly decided in 1988.
 
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Lets start with the fact we are not a democracy. We are a constitutional democratic republic. The subtlety may be lost on you but its relevant.
I will start calling it that when its part of the everyday vernacular
To a biased observer it may appear that they are trying to create a scenario where they can rule for Trump however I believe they simply are playing long ball and trying not to base their decision on the matter at hand rather the constitution and separation of powers
That is why I responded to you like I did. Roberts and Gorsuch may think that way, but Alito and Thomas not so much. Kavanaugh has in the past argued the opposite of his current line of questioning. Roberts innate ability to render his vote on both very narrow and wide lattitude of law in the same decision means whatever the vote turns out will be a contorted pile of crap. It will cause more problems in the long run. So I disagree with your asserrtion.
How Congress can make law that regulates the President and be in keeping with these principles specifically.
If the ruling goes the wrong way, in the long run it won't matter what Congress does.
 
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