PD3 canceled at NJRTC

[bman546]

Women asking for the same pay is often times a joke. Before I am ridiculed as sexist (which I would deserve if I do not clarify), I am not talking about within the typical workplace or the general public. I am talking about certain sports. If the typical NBA team averages almost 18,000 fans per game and the WNBA, averages 6,000 in attendance, that isn't equal revenue, so equal pay is laughable. TV viewership of the NBA Finals is 15 million. The WNBA finals is 500,000 or less. Certainly there are women's sports where the gap if there is one is minimal or actually is in favor of the women. Gymnastics, figure skating do quite well. The demand in the market determines the pay, that is pretty simple. I have been an active proponent of women's wrestling, but I am not delusional or one that justifies things by saying "because." Women's wrestling is still an emerging sport, but it is growing and more opportunities and exposure is coming (oops, bad choice of words considering the Nomad accusations...).

 

[IAChief32]

Women asking for the same pay is often times a joke. Before I am ridiculed as sexist (which I would deserve if I do not clarify), I am not talking about within the typical workplace or the general public. I am talking about certain sports. If the typical NBA team averages almost 18,000 fans per game and the WNBA, averages 6,000 in attendance, that isn't equal revenue, so equal pay is laughable. TV viewership of the NBA Finals is 15 million. The WNBA finals is 500,000 or less. Certainly there are women's sports where the gap if there is one is minimal or actually is in favor of the women. Gymnastics, figure skating do quite well. The demand in the market determines the pay, that is pretty simple. I have been an active proponent of women's wrestling, but I am not delusional or one that justifies things by saying "because." Women's wrestling is still an emerging sport, but it is growing and more opportunities and exposure is coming (oops, bad choice of words considering the Nomad accusations...).

I'd also say women's tennis. Not that they are better than the men but followed more than men, especially when the Williams sisters play. Women's volleyball during the Olympics. I agree with gymnastics...female Olympic gymnastics is a helluva site to behold...some great athletes and good drama. I think TR Foley said Helen Maroulis's gold medal match was one of the most watched amongst wrestling...she was still largely snubbed from the spotlight because wrestling is not a heavily followed sport in the Olympics.

Women's soccer is followed during the World Cup but nobody really gives a damn about the women's pro league here in the states. The reason why U.S. Men's Soccer gets paid more during the world cup is because each participating team gets a share of the prize money. In 2018, the prize money for men is $400 million vs $30 Million for the women. The men's World Cup generated a total of $4 Billion in revenue in 2018. The women aren't even close. It is quite simply one of the biggest sporting events in the world.

One that is for true "workplace equality" would argue to just put one team forward regardless of gender. Let Megan Rapinoe or one of her teammates compete against men for her bonus...its like that everywhere else except in sports.

 

[IAChief32]

I'd also like to point out that I think it was Sarah Hildebrandt, Haley Augello and Jacarra Winchester who argued that a potential match for $1000 was not worth risking (because of injury) a potential payout of $250,000 for an Olympic Gold. My question would be, than what amount would suffice? Because if that's your thinking, than I don't think even the $20,000 DT is set to make would be worth it.

Here...I found the thread:

 

[1032004]

I'd also like to point out that I think it was Sarah Hildebrandt, Haley Augello and Jacarra Winchester who argued that a potential match for $1000 was not worth risking (because of injury) a potential payout of $250,000 for an Olympic Gold. My question would be, than what amount would suffice? Because if that's your thinking, than I don't think even the $20,000 DT is set to make would be worth it.

Here...I found the thread:

View embedded media

One other thing that came up on FRL's interview of Pletcher yesterday that made me think. Apparently Pletcher said he was first contacted in April for the event. Being towards the start of the pandemic, if that's when some of the women were contacted it's possible that played a bigger role in not accepting than injury risk.

 

[IAChief32]

One other thing that came up on FRL's interview of Pletcher yesterday that made me think. Apparently Pletcher said he was first contacted in April for the event. Being towards the start of the pandemic, if that's when some of the women were contacted it's possible that played a bigger role in not accepting than injury risk.

The Olympics were postponed in March I believe. I am guessing that Flo scheduled this to try and fill the vacuum.

 

[WesternPA]

Maybe I missed where the women were asking for the same pay, because I got the impression that they just wanted more than a laughable amount. The thing for me is that yes the women are not as big of a draw and couldn't be the highlight match of the event, but Flo is missing an oppurtunity with these events. With a rather small investment by them to add a couple womens matches to an existing event(no extra overhead besides paying the women) they could be the driving force behind growing the womens sport and also profiting off of it by attracting millions of more women to Flo that want to be part of the sport.

Flo Wrestling has maybe 200,000 followers on twitter and 500,000 likes on Facebook. I'm guessing a vast percentage of followers and likers are men. To say "millions more" implies "millions are", and that just isn't the case. Women's wrestling whether entertaining or not will never approach the level of popularity of even the WNBA (1,100,000 likers) and it is truly a substandard (read garbage) product that is artificially propped up by the NBA so the group Women Shoot Too doesn't evolve. (wasn't it the WNBA that came up with the idea of multicolored seats so when the cameras panned the mostly empty seats it didnt look as bad as having entire levels without any fans? Kind of an admission of sorts.)

Would flo benefit if women's wrestling was more popular? Sure, but the real drivers of interest must be USA Wrestling and NCAA (zero chance in the current environment).

Athletes should participate because they like the sport, that's it. If you want to be serena williams, play tennis.

 

[1032004]

The Olympics were postponed in March I believe. I am guessing that Flo scheduled this to try and fill the vacuum.

Of course. Just saying some people may have been more weary of the risks of wreslting due to covid itself, especially earlier on in the pandemic.

 

[IAChief32]

Of course. Just saying some people may have been more weary of the risks of wreslting due to covid itself, especially earlier on in the pandemic.

Gotcha. No, she specifically cited injury risk for the Oly vs reward.

 

[GG121AND2]

As I have said on here many times, I am a fan of and advocate for girls' and women's wrestling. If we value what wrestling teaches our sons and grandsons, should we not also value what it can teach our daughters and granddaughters?

Here are some numbers to give you an idea about the growth in participation in female wrestling. According to the NFHS, in the past 10 years girls' high school numbers have grown by 15,000 (boys fell by 25,000 during the same period). For the most part this growth occurred while, in all but 6 states, girls were forced to compete against boys if they wanted to wrestle. In 2019 and 2020, twenty-one additional states sanctioned girl's wrestling championships (but not Iowa). I believe that sanctioning will serve to increase the growth rate exponentially. While Iowa does not sanction girl's wrestling, the Iowa Coaches and Officials Association sponsors a non-sanctioned "state championship". The number of competitors in 2020 almost tripled those of 2019.

In the past three years, the number of colleges and universities with varsity wrestling programs has almost tripled to over 70 - with more added all the time. The good news for young men is that many of the new women's programs are joined by new men's teams. Women's wrestling is officially an emerging sport in all three NCAA divisions and an "invitational" sport in the NAIA. The Women's Collegiate Wrestling Association (WCWA) has been putting on the women's college championship tournament for several years. They will now be offering championships for both the NAIA and NCAA. The previously mentioned Rachel Watters (Huxley Ballard) was a 2020 WCWA national champion for Oklahoma City University.

By the way, college women wrestle freestyle only.

You may not enjoy watching them, but, the truth is, from 6-year-old "pee wees" to Adeline Gray, girls and women want to wrestle. They have earned the opportunity.

 

[nwiowahawkeye]

GG- I don't think you will find any argument in that it is a growing segment, nor that they have earned the opportunity. What I think is being said (if not only for myself), is...

Does an unequal viewership and revenue generator, deserve equal profits or pay?

I would also throw this out there....for all the persons who believe that there is a large profit, interest, etc. in womens wrestling, why are they not the ones who are a driving force behind creating an event? Its like saying...here is something YOU should be doing...but I don't believe in it myself enough to assume MY risk. YOU risk losing money, YOU risk the failure....I just want to tell YOU how it should be. I say, put up and show US wrong. Thats where I think the gap lies.

I'm all for women's wrestling....I'm all for women's combat sports....but I can assure you, the ladies division in UFC does not equal pay for the men's...because.....supply and demand. This basic economic principle is easy to understand when it is YOUR money at risk and not "the other guy." Easy to out people, or make assumptions, or criticize, when you have nothing to lose in said promotion, argument, etc.

Maybe I missed something, but in regards to PDIII, I think he was just trying to execute the same thoughts as I just wrote....now in regards to his comments on Greco.....what is wrong with him saying his opinion that it is boring? Is he not allowed to believe this? It was HIS opinion? The only counter measure I can think of, would be that he is not allowed to share his personal opinion because of the greater good of being on the US Olympic team. Its like a Pepsi worker not being allowed to have a Diet Coke in their household and telling a friend that he had one with dinner....dammit, you are fired. You must pretend and falsely believe, promote, execute at all times. Big deal...he called out Greco guys for trying to be more entertaining. Who is butt hurt out of these comments?

I fear we are gravitating to a society where free speech is free speech, so long as you agree with me

**This is where I wish I could insert the Meme where a guy has the table and poster that says "Prove me wrong"

 

[IAChief32]

GG- I don't think you will find any argument in that it is a growing segment, nor that they have earned the opportunity. What I think is being said (if not only for myself), is...

Does an unequal viewership and revenue generator, deserve equal profits or pay?

I would also throw this out there....for all the persons who believe that there is a large profit, interest, etc. in womens wrestling, why are they not the ones who are a driving force behind creating an event? Its like saying...here is something YOU should be doing...but I don't believe in it myself enough to assume MY risk. YOU risk losing money, YOU risk the failure....I just want to tell YOU how it should be. I say, put up and show US wrong. Thats where I think the gap lies.

I'm all for women's wrestling....I'm all for women's combat sports....but I can assure you, the ladies division in UFC does not equal pay for the men's...because.....supply and demand. This basic economic principle is easy to understand when it is YOUR money at risk and not "the other guy." Easy to out people, or make assumptions, or criticize, when you have nothing to lose in said promotion, argument, etc.

Maybe I missed something, but in regards to PDIII, I think he was just trying to execute the same thoughts as I just wrote....now in regards to his comments on Greco.....what is wrong with him saying his opinion that it is boring? Is he not allowed to believe this? It was HIS opinion? The only counter measure I can think of, would be that he is not allowed to share his personal opinion because of the greater good of being on the US Olympic team. Its like a Pepsi worker not being allowed to have a Diet Coke in their household and telling a friend that he had one with dinner....dammit, you are fired. You must pretend and falsely believe, promote, execute at all times. Big deal...he called out Greco guys for trying to be more entertaining. Who is butt hurt out of these comments?

I fear we are gravitating to a society where free speech is free speech, so long as you agree with me

**This is where I wish I could insert the Meme where a guy has the table and poster that says "Prove me wrong"

Well said and pretty much said what I have been thinking. Again, hate to defend Downey on here but he was the only one to agree to wrestle a Greco guy in his last matchup and do a one period Greco and one period freestyle go with Rau. Also, in his own convoluted way, he thought he was getting the debate going on women's wrestling...and he did. It's just that the dude fell off the tracks several times.

It's pretty simple really; hardcore believers needs to stop virtue signaling and create a company that streams video and features women's wrestling. Put their money into the middle of the pot so to speak. I think they'll find that its hard to make money in this sport.

The women think they are getting disrespected? One just needs to look at John Smith to see that there is severe lack of juice in our sport. For example, he has been elected to the Oklahoma HOF this year which encompasses excellence from all career fields...not just sports. Two time national champ, 4 time world champ, two time Olympic champ plus coach of 5 National Championship teams. Considered by many to to be the GOAT USA wrestler. Oklahoma is thought to be a strong wrestling state by us yet he is the first wrestler/coach in there. Hell, they had 29 titles before he even took the helm. Even their own Barstool account had Bryant "Big Country" Reeves on their Mt Rushmore before Smith. Gundy too, but it appears wearing a conservative news outlet TShirt while fishing is going to tarnish him.

 

[GG121AND2]

GG- I don't think you will find any argument in that it is a growing segment, nor that they have earned the opportunity. What I think is being said (if not only for myself), is...

Does an unequal viewership and revenue generator, deserve equal profits or pay?

I would also throw this out there....for all the persons who believe that there is a large profit, interest, etc. in womens wrestling, why are they not the ones who are a driving force behind creating an event? Its like saying...here is something YOU should be doing...but I don't believe in it myself enough to assume MY risk. YOU risk losing money, YOU risk the failure....I just want to tell YOU how it should be. I say, put up and show US wrong. Thats where I think the gap lies.

I'm all for women's wrestling....I'm all for women's combat sports....but I can assure you, the ladies division in UFC does not equal pay for the men's...because.....supply and demand. This basic economic principle is easy to understand when it is YOUR money at risk and not "the other guy." Easy to out people, or make assumptions, or criticize, when you have nothing to lose in said promotion, argument, etc.

Maybe I missed something, but in regards to PDIII, I think he was just trying to execute the same thoughts as I just wrote....now in regards to his comments on Greco.....what is wrong with him saying his opinion that it is boring? Is he not allowed to believe this? It was HIS opinion? The only counter measure I can think of, would be that he is not allowed to share his personal opinion because of the greater good of being on the US Olympic team. Its like a Pepsi worker not being allowed to have a Diet Coke in their household and telling a friend that he had one with dinner....dammit, you are fired. You must pretend and falsely believe, promote, execute at all times. Big deal...he called out Greco guys for trying to be more entertaining. Who is butt hurt out of these comments?

I fear we are gravitating to a society where free speech is free speech, so long as you agree with me

**This is where I wish I could insert the Meme where a guy has the table and poster that says "Prove me wrong"

My post was not intended to argue any of these points. I merely wanted to put some facts on the table about girls and women wanting to wrestle. At this point, the leadership of female wrestling is more concerned with getting adequate opportunities for their constituency than it is the marketing of their segment of the sport. That will come later and then someone will step up and pursue that aspect. Will they be successful? It will be very tough.

I understand that I am in the minority because I enjoy women's wrestling and am willing to pay to watch. I do not expect anyone else to feel the same way just because I do.