Pfizer forecasts record-breaking earnings

[LuciousBDragon]

You must be furious at that $8T in military spending over the next decade, then.

Actually, I am. I know it sounds strange but it is possible to be conservative and also be against bloated spending at the DoD. Especially considering there has never been an audit of it all. I’m all for a strong defense, but am not a fan of $400 toilet seats and $1B fighter jet programs that have defects ten years later.

But anyway, back to Pfizer since that is what this thread is about…

 

[Joes Place]

But anyway, back to Pfizer since that is what this thread is about…

No, you just shifted it to the US government buying vaccines.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

No, you just shifted it to the US government buying vaccines.

Whaaaa? You brought up defense spending and I’m just bringing you back. Kewl?

 

[Joes Place]

Whaaaa? You brought up defense spending and I’m just bringing you back. Kewl?

You brought up "government spending"

Which has little to do with Pfizer vaccine profits. Absent a large contract, there would be no vaccines, and the cost per dose would be much much higher. As would the costs to society for Covid impacts.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

You brought up "government spending"

Which has little to do with Pfizer vaccine profits. Absent a large contract, there would be no vaccines, and the cost per dose would be much much higher. As would the costs to society for Covid impacts.

You’re cute Joe.

Who paid for a lot of these vaccines again?

 

[Joes Place]

You’re cute Joe.

Who paid for a lot of these vaccines again?

What's that got to do with profit margins?

If we didn't have vaccines, we'd have an economy in shambles. The costs of the vaccines are a tiny fraction of that fallout. Which you continue to ignore.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

What's that got to do with profit margins?

If we didn't have vaccines, we'd have an economy in shambles. The costs of the vaccines are a tiny fraction of that fallout. Which you continue to ignore.

It matters if the government overpaid with our tax dollars. Did the government negotiate in the best interest of the people or the best interest of Pfizer?

Again, this is not government spending. This is your money and my money spending. It is adorable that people still think the government has its own money to spend.

 

[Joes Place]

It matters if the government overpaid with our tax dollars.

How did they "overpay", when the cost per dose has been entirely in line with what other vaccine makers have charged?

Be specific.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

How did they "overpay", when the cost per dose has been entirely in line with what other vaccine makers have charged?

Be specific.

Well to be honest, it’s not like there is a true open market model for the vaccines. In the US, our choices are sorta limited.

Again, cost per dose is irrelevant when talking margins. If Moderna is charging the same you can argue they are being competitive or you could argue they collaborated with Pfizer to price-fix.

NPR just reported that the FDA surprised folks this week when they told Pfizer to go ahead and apply for approval for kids 6 mo to 5 yrs even though the data for the two shot method showed ineffectiveness for kids from 23 mo old to 5 yrs. Pfizer’s first answer was to start testing to see if adding the third dose produces the immune response. That data is not due until later in March. But the FDA (headed by a former Pfizer dude) said go ahead and apply now with the reasoning that the kids can start the two doses now and the third dose timeline will coincide perfectly supposedly when the data comes out later in March.

That’s unprecedented. That is not exactly the most scientific way of approving things. Yet the FDA (again, headed by someone with a conflict of interest) is moving forward this way.

It’s like the FDA intentionally is doing all they can to make sure people to doubt them! Even the NPR reporter admitted it was very odd and unnecessary.

 

[red/green hawk]

Well to be honest, it’s not like there is a true open market model for the vaccines. In the US, our choices are sorta limited.

Again, cost per dose is irrelevant when talking margins. If Moderna is charging the same you can argue they are being competitive or you could argue they collaborated with Pfizer to price-fix.

NPR just reported that the FDA surprised folks this week when they told Pfizer to go ahead and apply for approval for kids 6 mo to 5 yrs even though the data for the two shot method showed ineffectiveness for kids from 23 mo old to 5 yrs. Pfizer’s first answer was to start testing to see if adding the third dose produces the immune response. That data is not due until later in March. But the FDA (headed by a former Pfizer dude) said go ahead and apply now with the reasoning that the kids can start the two doses now and the third dose timeline will coincide perfectly supposedly when the data comes out later in March.

That’s unprecedented. That is not exactly the most scientific way of approving things. Yet the FDA (again, headed by someone with a conflict of interest) is moving forward this way.

It’s like the FDA intentionally is doing all they can to make sure people to doubt them! Even the NPR reporter admitted it was very odd and unnecessary.

It's bio-medical fascism.

 

[Joes Place]

Well to be honest, it’s not like there is a true open market model for the vaccines.

Early on, there was not, but there WERE options.

And the alternative was FAR more costly than a $17 vaccine.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

It matters if the government overpaid with our tax dollars. Did the government negotiate in the best interest of the people or the best interest of Pfizer?

Again, this is not government spending. This is your money and my money spending. It is adorable that people still think the government has its own money to spend.

Strange that this particular case bothers you so much.

Pfizer created a beneficial product on an accelerated timeline. I and many members of my family had the Pfizer vaccine and booster. None have been hospitalized.
I’m thankful they were there to make a product that was of benefit to society. Win win.

 

[Joes Place]

Strange that this particular case bothers you so much.

Pfizer created a beneficial product on an accelerated timeline. I and many members of my family had the Pfizer vaccine and booster. None have been hospitalized.
I’m thankful they were there to make a product that was of benefit to society. Win win.

The "ROI" on a $17 vaccine (x3 doses, so roughly $50) is simply astronomical.
If 1 in 100 Covid cases (and the rate is far higher than that) end up in an ICU, those costs are $50-100k per case (not even considering the non-ICU hospitalizations); many ICU admissions are well over $100k in costs.

So at a minimum, $5000 in vaccine doses saves you $100k+, and most likely many times that. ROI is 20x in the "rosiest" case here. Probably more like 100x when you consider the lower infection rates and lost workforce time, etc.

This is not even factoring in the long-term sequelae from Covid infections, which are only now becoming evident, and will easily double the overall costs.

Yet here we are, with an alleged "fiscal conservative" bitching about it.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The "ROI" on a $17 vaccine (x3 doses, so roughly $50) is simply astronomical.
If 1 in 100 Covid cases (and the rate is far higher than that) end up in an ICU, those costs are $50-100k per case (not even considering the non-ICU hospitalizations); many ICU admissions are well over $100k in costs.

So at a minimum, $5000 in vaccine doses saves you $100k+, and most likely many times that. ROI is 20x in the "rosiest" case here. Probably more like 100x when you consider the lower infection rates and lost workforce time, etc.

This is not even factoring in the long-term sequelae from Covid infections, which are only now becoming evident, and will easily double the overall costs.

Yet here we are, with an alleged "fiscal conservative" bitching about it.

I just don’t get the objections here. I think the complaint about spending on vaccines only makes sense if you don’t believe the vaccines were worthwhile in the first place. Which is an entirely different discussion.

 

[Joes Place]

I just don’t get the objections here. I think the complaint about spending on vaccines only makes sense if you don’t believe the vaccines were worthwhile in the first place. Which is an entirely different discussion.

It's a different discussion, and a moronic one from a "fiscal responsibility" perspective.

The costs of the long-term sequelae from Covid survivors, alone, will be 100x to 1000x more than a $50 vaccine regimen.

 

[runkpanole]

I just don’t get the objections here. I think the complaint about spending on vaccines only makes sense if you don’t believe the vaccines were worthwhile in the first place. Which is an entirely different discussion.

They would rather the taxpayers and rate payers pay for more hospitalizations.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

It's a different discussion, and a moronic one from a "fiscal responsibility" perspective.

The costs of the long-term sequelae from Covid survivors, alone, will be 100x to 1000x more than a $50 vaccine regimen.

Yeah, not saying I agree with the point, but logically it’s the only premise that makes sense. Even if wrong.

It’s just strange to see posts from the left and the right basically arguing that Pfizer should’ve worked for free or that the government should’ve nickel and dimed them in the middle of a pandemic.

 

[LBoogie28]

WOB ruling?

And #2, as a conservative, I enjoy profits but not when government tax dollars are fitting the bill.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

The "ROI" on a $17 vaccine (x3 doses, so roughly $50) is simply astronomical.
If 1 in 100 Covid cases (and the rate is far higher than that) end up in an ICU, those costs are $50-100k per case (not even considering the non-ICU hospitalizations); many ICU admissions are well over $100k in costs.

So at a minimum, $5000 in vaccine doses saves you $100k+, and most likely many times that. ROI is 20x in the "rosiest" case here. Probably more like 100x when you consider the lower infection rates and lost workforce time, etc.

This is not even factoring in the long-term sequelae from Covid infections, which are only now becoming evident, and will easily double the overall costs.

Yet here we are, with an alleged "fiscal conservative" bitching about it.

How much per dose does/should Pfizer make in profit? It all boils down to those two numbers.

I think Pfizer should recoup costs and be able to fund future R&D but I also do not think the American tax payer should be fleeced for billions. Simple as that.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

WOB ruling?

Yep, that’s a WOB.

 

[Joes Place]

How much per dose does/should Pfizer make in profit? It all boils down to those two numbers.

Much less than their "average" markup.

We've established that already.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Much less than their "average" markup.

We've established that already.

That wasn’t the question.

How much does/should Pfizer make in profit margin per dose?

So the two answers you give should be in numeric format.

 

[Joes Place]

That wasn’t the question.

Yeah

It was.

And America is saving tens (if not hundreds) of billions with the vaccine spending as opposed to "just letting it ride".

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Yeah

It was.

And America is saving tens (if not hundreds) of billions with the vaccine spending as opposed to "just letting it ride".

Ok, you keep typing letters instead of numbers. Let’s try again Joe. Just fill in the blanks here with numeric characters 0-9:

“I believe Pfizer makes ___% gross profit off of each dose of their vaccine.”

“I believe the appropriate amount of gross profit per dose is _____%.”

 

[Joes Place]

Ok, you keep typing letters instead of numbers.

You keep ignoring the numbers typed.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

You keep ignoring the numbers typed.

I’ll give you another chance. If you don’t know, it’s ok to say “I don’t know.”

Just fill in the blanks here with numeric characters 0-9:

“I believe Pfizer makes ___% gross profit off of each dose of their vaccine.”

“I believe the appropriate amount of gross profit per dose is _____%.”

 

[Warrior Poet31]

Nothing to see here I'm sure.