Please just end the idiocy and cancel the football season
- Thread starter Tom Roland
- Start date
Can't let the chickens and the cats play in the same barn.
Gotcha, ours is (was) called The Tribal Council. It being such a cesspool of bickering about everything and trashing players, coaches and everyone else is when I moved from there to the Locker Room. At least on the off topic boards, everyone (well most people) realize it is just mindless entertainment.
The Lounge is supposed to be strictly Hawkeye sports discussion. I’m assuming one of the mods decided this thread was a little too off-topic so they moved it over here and dumped it on our front porch.
Boy lot of real new material here. Can’t believe no one has said this the last 5 months. That’s sarcasm....
Yes, the Locker Roomers are familiar with threads getting dumped onto our board. We can empathize. First time I think I have seen it here.
You're absolutely ignoring the seasonality of viruses. Of course southern states have surged recently while northern states are fading. That's viral seasonality and it occurs all over the globe.
The counting process in Florida and Texas are actually more loose than Connecticut. Both states match death certificates to prior positive tests. Thats why patients who died in motorcycle accidents and Parkinson's showed up in Florida's data.
NE states haven't accomplished anything other than herd immunity, much like Sweden which also has minimal deaths now (6 total in the last 2 days).
The same clowns who are praising NY, NJ and other NE states now, can't explain Sweden, which isn't in a lockdown or mandating masks.
I didn't even realize this got moved, i was incredibly surprised to see it still existed.
Re: masks - based on what i have read, they aren't effective at actually blocking the virus much. What they probably are effective at keeping people conscious about 'catching their coughs', and perhaps more importantly touching their mouth, nose and eyes, which can have a tremendous effect on eliminating transmission. But that also means me not wearing a mask probably doesn't directly endanger anyone else with my mere presence.
Curiously, Japan - generally recognized as a 'high mask adherence' country, is seeing a substantial uptick in raw positive cases, similar to the current 'hotspots' in the US. I have not dug in at all to see what their relative testing rates are, as this could be completely attributed to more testing being performed. Assuming the Japanese are still wearing masks, I am not sure how it can be good evidence for the 'mask up' argument.
Re: masks - based on what i have read, they aren't effective at actually blocking the virus much. What they probably are effective at keeping people conscious about 'catching their coughs', and perhaps more importantly touching their mouth, nose and eyes, which can have a tremendous effect on eliminating transmission. But that also means me not wearing a mask probably doesn't directly endanger anyone else with my mere presence.
Curiously, Japan - generally recognized as a 'high mask adherence' country, is seeing a substantial uptick in raw positive cases, similar to the current 'hotspots' in the US. I have not dug in at all to see what their relative testing rates are, as this could be completely attributed to more testing being performed. Assuming the Japanese are still wearing masks, I am not sure how it can be good evidence for the 'mask up' argument.
Have you decided to just give up before even giving at least the first round of vaccines a chance?
all these. The point is that the science on masks is unsettled since decades of studies leading up to this year found they were ineffective.
That link doesn't link to the actual study done. It links to interview with one of the people who did the study. The point is that anyone that thinks that three or four months of science/studies makes indisputable that cloth mask are effective in protecting against airborne viruses is only cherry picking. The science is mixed, at best. Kind of like the discussion on HCQ and the new claim that it is an unsafe drug and will kill people. There is sixty plus years of research on studies on HCQ showing that it has an excellent safety profile and the CDC on its website even says it is extremely safe and can be prescribed to pregnant women, nursing mothers, and small children. Now we have people that claim in the last four months the sixty years of accumulated science on HCQ has changed to the point that it is now a dangerous drug (while may millions of people still take it safely world wide).
But back to the Stanford "study", it seems like from reading the interview the professor is including his own editorial comments "you actually touch your face less wearing a mask" but who does that refer to? That seems like it is his own observation or own practice. Also, do you think most people currently wearing masks are wearing the three layered masks that this guy recommends? Doubtful.
Dr. Gu, the one being interviewed published an article on March 22, 2020 specifically saying there was no evidence that cloth masks were effective to protect against the virus.
www.strac.org/files/Incident%20Specific/2019nCoV/Price_and_Chu-mask-ppe-EBM-v1.1-3-22-20.pdf
UNKNOWN: Nurses and other health care providers can “use homemade masks (e.g., bandana, scarf) for care of patients with COVID-19,” according to CDC but in the next sentence admits protection capability is unknown. Alternatives are being fashioned from existing materials. Comparison study and graph where authors measured homemade mask ability to filter virus size particles.
But I can't seem to find any actual published study done by Dr. Gu other than this interview that mentions it. Another article (found here:
https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/science-and-psychology-behind-masking-prevent-spread-covid-19) has an embedded link that references "mounting scientific research" but the link takes you only to a CDC article. That CDC article uses as its sources something from the editorial page at JAMA, something from the CDC which says "your mask may protect them and their mask may protect you" and then cites to a review of information from Springfield, Missouri involving a positive hairdresser wearing a mask. The point is that none of those things are studies and they certainly aren't, as the CDC claims, "mounting scientific research".
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I would trade our current predicament for Japan's in a heartbeat. The United States has over 6 million active cases. Japan has about 12,000. We're averaging about 60,000 new cases every day, Japan is averaging about 1300. That's roughly equivalent to the state of Ohio, except that Japan has 10 times the population of Ohio.
And despite the recent uptick in new cases, Japan is still seeing single-digit deaths per day. We're averaging well over a thousand death every day. Put another way, the number of people dying every day in the US is about the same as the number of people testing positive in Japan every day.
Japan's numbers have been increasing because they reopened their economy, not because masks aren't effective. Japan's numbers would be much worse if not for the fact that most of their citizens dutifully wear masks in public.
Never thought feeding family, paying rent was self gratification. Jobs are jobs. For every athlete you seem to live vicariously through there are a hundred people eking out a living because of it. Yes, can we take sports off of its pedestal and realize it goes much further than you sitting in front of the TV with a beer?
Indeed. Most of the crowd favoring continued or new lock downs are people that are getting paid regardless.
No. But you can't have one plan: lock down until there's a vaccine. Anyone that has bothered to look into the science at all realizes that getting a safe and effective vaccine for this virus in short order is very unlikely. So what is your plan B if the vaccine doesn't work or is only 50% effective or takes two years to develop?
Thousands of healthcare workers in this country have exposed themselves voluntarily to care for the sickest of the covid cases. If masking and gowning up didn’t work we would be dealing with a catastrophe of epic proportions.
First off, health care workers are all heroes and have my utmost respect
That said,
- masking in a clinical setting is completely different- it is entirely possible that the erstwhile sterile environment is the difference maker.
- These workers may be more likely to have T-Cell immunity, which more and more seems to be a very important factor
- I have yet to see a meaningful data correlation between mask wearing (or lockdowns) and a reduced spread. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that i haven't seen it, while seeing lots of evidence that there is *no* correlation.
None of this is to argue that one shouldn't wear a mask - it is almost definitely not going to harm anyone. This is mostly to argue that one shouldn't lose their mind on someone who chooses not to wear a mask.
I appreciate the rebuttal but why do you need to see “data”? Is there not a common sense quotient in play here? Thousands of years ago people living in caves with no medicine and no written language figured out they need to stay away from the guy that’s coughing and sneezing.
Fact. I started following this thread in the Lounge before it was moved to the poors board.
A virus doesn't have to be inherently seasonal to be transmitted more easily in winter time. Dry air, much more time indoors, and of course, the petri dish of petri dishes....schools.
I don't know about you Lounge denizens, but it's established fact that the average HROT poster pulls down a 7-figure salary and is married to and/or dating supermodels.
I agree, on the surface, wearing a mask seems totally logical and all upside.
But at the same time, when the argument for masks/lock downs is 'because Science!', I wouldn't mind seeing said science, and (don't take this personally), it isn't reassuring when the response to that is 'its just common sense'.
Especially when people are threatening fines for not wearing masks, or the Mayor of LA says they are going to turn electricity and water off at houses that have parties.
Yes, I think the science is there but we need to have some minimum requirements for mask efficiency. Many Surgical Grade masks block 98% of viruses from escaping and frankly they can be made here in the USA in large scale.
I think if we could get to a 95% efficiency and everyone complied in public the spread would plummet after a few weeks (of course that also means incorporating real social distancing measures and no inside restaurant dining, bars and schooling would have to be held off until community spread numbers came way way down...its out of control right now).
The question I have with that is if it just ends up delaying/prolonging the inevitable, as it is unlikely the virus gets eradicated worldwide, and as we already proved there isn't really any hiding from it.
With the potential of T-Cell cross immunity, herd immunity levels could be as low as 30% (as opposed to 60-70%). Masks would essentially be required until we get there either organically, or boosted by a vaccine...
