Poll: Do You Agree with Biden on the Role of Government?

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Taxing the rich won't come even close to the deficit spending we've had, especially since 2007 / 2008. Look at federal revenues, then look at expenses. Look at federal spending as a % of GDP. Obama got away with it because interest rates are so low. Trump, to some extent, had the same advantage. At some point, interest rates will go up, and debt service will be a major budget item.

47% or so of tax payers pay no federal income tax. When people have no skin in the game, they don't pay as much attention, or demand accountability. If you want to hold up the European model, nearly everyone has skin in the game. For the most part, they are satisfied with a simpler lifestyle than we have. But in places like Germany, a lot of their choices are taken away, like education path. They accept it. They also wonder what it would be like if they had our system.

Well if wages here were higher than maybe more people would be paying income taxes. There is the reason our wealth gap is so much bigger than their wealth gap, and that's probably explains why more of their citizens pay taxes.

I also will point out that Republicans are unnaturally focused on the federal income tax. Nearly everyone pays some kind of tax or another both state and federal. Why so much focus specifically on the federal income tax of all the taxes? Is it the fact that it's the most progressive tax we have which is upsetting to the right?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Taxing the rich won't come even close to the deficit spending we've had, especially since 2007 / 2008. Look at federal revenues, then look at expenses. Look at federal spending as a % of GDP. Obama got away with it because interest rates are so low. Trump, to some extent, had the same advantage. At some point, interest rates will go up, and debt service will be a major budget item.

47% or so of tax payers pay no federal income tax. When people have no skin in the game, they don't pay as much attention, or demand accountability. If you want to hold up the European model, nearly everyone has skin in the game. For the most part, they are satisfied with a simpler lifestyle than we have. But in places like Germany, a lot of their choices are taken away, like education path. They accept it. They also wonder what it would be like if they had our system.

Also for the record we could EASILY pay for everything by upping our tax rates. Several countries tax far more of their GDP than we do.

List of sovereign states by tax revenue to GDP ratio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If we tax our GDP significantly more, since 70% of the wealth in this country is held by the top 10% . . . that's going to look a lot like big tax increases on the rich.

 

[Rifler]

Why so much focus specifically on the federal income tax of all the taxes?

Probably because it's most people's largest tax obligation...

 

[Finance85]

Well if wages here were higher than maybe more people would be paying income taxes. There is the reason our wealth gap is so much bigger than their wealth gap, and that's probably explains why more of their citizens pay taxes.

I also will point out that Republicans are unnaturally focused on the federal income tax. Nearly everyone pays some kind of tax or another both state and federal. Why so much focus specifically on the federal income tax of all the taxes? Is it the fact that it's the most progressive tax we have which is upsetting to the right?

LOL. You've actually hit on something a lot of the $15 minimum wage crowd haven't thought of. Raising the minimum wage not only raises the floor, it raises wages for everyone. It will cause bracket creep until the liberals in Congress adjust the bracket levels.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Probably because it's most people's largest tax obligation...

If nearly half the country doesn't pay it than probably not.

LOL. You've actually hit on something a lot of the $15 minimum wage crowd haven't thought of. Raising the minimum wage not only raises the floor, it raises wages for everyone. It will cause bracket creep until the liberals in Congress adjust the bracket levels.

Raising my wages and having me pay a certain percentage of that increase in taxes still seems like a win to me.

 

[Rifler]

If nearly half the country doesn't pay it than probably not.

I was referring to the portion of the population that pays Federal Income tax,.. obviously those who don't pay it aren't concerned in the least...

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I was referring to the portion of the population that pays Federal Income tax,.. obviously those who don't pay it aren't concerned in the least...

I should say that population should consider themselves fortunate enough to be in a financial position to which they have to pay taxes.

 

[86Hawkeye]

“It’s critical to demonstrate that government can function — can function and deliver prosperity, security and opportunity for the people in this country,” Biden said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/03/28/biden-budget-infrastructure/

Mostly no.

The government does not deliver prosperity. The government can create the conditions for prosperity (or not).

 

[Finance85]

I should say that population should consider themselves fortunate enough to be in a financial position to which they have to pay taxes.

So they shouldn't get any credit for their education, hard work, or business risk? They are just fortunate? I'm kind of passionate about this because of my own background.

 

[Rifler]

I should say that population should consider themselves fortunate enough to be in a financial position to which they have to pay taxes.

Phuck that...

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

So they shouldn't get any credit for their education, hard work, or business risk? They are just fortunate? I'm kind of passionate about this because of my own background.

Yes they get that credit in the money they get to keep which is most of it.

And honestly considering how studies are showing that your income has more to do with your parents income than anything else, I would argue that the amount of credit they should get for it is probably less than half.

 

[Finance85]

Yes they get that credit in the money they get to keep which is most of it.

And honestly considering how studies are showing that your income has more to do with your parents income than anything else, I would argue that the amount of credit they should get for it is probably less than half.

When you say 'the money they get to keep', that implies the money isn't theirs.

I'd be interested in those studies though.

Not that it matters, but Neal Boortz used to spend a lot of time on this subject. I mostly agreed with him. I'm also a follower of the late Walter Williams, and Thomas Sowell. I agree with them , too.

 

[Rudolph]

Our economy sucks for most people. We’re in a similar place now as back when the Depression hit. Corrective measures were taken. New Deal wasn’t perfect, but it sure as shit laid the foundation for Boomers to be in good shape and become the (stereotyping) fat, greedy fücks that form the base of the current “conservatism”. So interesting to hear these economic do-nothing arguments. Even more interesting the dumb, historically-obtuse arguments one layer deeper.

We have to correct our path. The last forty-plus years has forced this.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

When you say 'the money they get to keep', that implies the money isn't theirs.

I'd be interested in those studies though.

Not that it matters, but Neal Boortz used to spend a lot of time on this subject. I mostly agreed with him. I'm also a follower of the late Walter Williams, and Thomas Sowell. I agree with them , too.

This chart shows that your parents’ income determines your future

The wage gap for people from different backgrounds is significant.

www.marketwatch.com

Here's The Startling Degree To Which Your Parents Determine Your Success

Your future income is directly affected by how much your parents make, if they're married, and where they decide to live.

www.businessinsider.com

US is ranked #27 in income mobility. So much for the American dream. . . maybe it should be called the Danish Dream.

Ranked: The Social Mobility of 82 Countries

Ranked: The Social Mobility of 82 Countries It’s an unfortunate truth that a person’s opportunities can be partially tethered to their socioeconomic status at birth. Although winning or losing the “birth lottery” will continue to shape the lives of generations to come, climbing the socioeconomic...

www.visualcapitalist.com

As far as the money goes. . . money is both a community property and an individual one. Taxes are the ways we extract the community part. Because not everything you own was something you did all by yourself. It wasn't like at 18 you went into the woods naked with nothing but your bare hands and built yourself a home and a profitable business in the woods away from civilization. Anything you've done required people before you to invest in things . . . things such as infrastructure and security. Taxes are the way we extract the community portion of one's income. And the portion of your income that belongs to the community increases with the greater degree of income you generate. Because it's your responsibility to make sure that others (who are not your own children) can follow you. And that costs money. . .