POLL: The Moral Crisis of Our Day?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
I agree somewhat......
I think we have some gigantic issues in this country......some of them cannot be solved, unless ordinary citizens decide to rise up against the Gov't. Because it's so far gone, it can't be brought back thru conventional means.
I think we have some gigantic issues in this country......some of them cannot be solved, unless ordinary citizens decide to rise up against the Gov't. Because it's so far gone, it can't be brought back thru conventional means.
What problems do you think so serious that they necessitate revolution. Do you envision this revolution as a violent affair?
He's pointing to government and big business. You are only agreeing with the government part? If true, I don't get that. Could you explain why you (seem to) give the business part of the equation a free pass?
Which of those things don't exist? You are correct about Twitter and he should also add abortions and deadbeat parents.
I think the fact that you don't necessarily see any problems that are so serious that it might take a revolutionary act to reset them, shows where you are in your trust of Gov't. But IIRC, you draw your paycheck from a Gov't agency, so it's understandable that you don't want to bite the hand that feeds.
The entire Gov't complex is out of control. Spending is insane. Both sides are completely purchased by corporations and the banks. Nothing is getting done to the benefit of the citizens. Everyone is on the take.
IMO here are the things that need to happen in order to reign in the corruption, lies and greed that permeate our Gov't at all levels.
1. roll back Citizens United
2. reenact Glass-Steagall
3. Kill NAFTA and find a way to return jobs to the US. Stiff tariffs and penalties for companies who decide to leave the US.
4. simplify the tax code and shrink the IRS(return the printing of of our currency to the hands of the Gov't..and not the banks)
5. Remove all lobbyist money from the pockets of elected officials
6. Publicly funded campaigns
7. Outlaw poltical attack ads.
8. Remove all pensions for elected officials and kill the environment and idea of the "career politician".
9. Term limits or mandatory retirement for all congressmen and SCOTUS justices.
10. removal of all redundant gov't programs, military and entitlement. streamline everything and make it more efficient.
11. balanced budget constitutional amendment that disallows the Fed Gov't to spend more than they take in.
12. Reel in the military from the majority of our global outposts. ONLY being in areas where we are truly wanted via treaty.
13. Reel in the amount of money we give allies AND enemies....Take that money and start spending it on our own.
The entire Gov't complex is out of control. Spending is insane. Both sides are completely purchased by corporations and the banks. Nothing is getting done to the benefit of the citizens. Everyone is on the take.
IMO here are the things that need to happen in order to reign in the corruption, lies and greed that permeate our Gov't at all levels.
1. roll back Citizens United
2. reenact Glass-Steagall
3. Kill NAFTA and find a way to return jobs to the US. Stiff tariffs and penalties for companies who decide to leave the US.
4. simplify the tax code and shrink the IRS(return the printing of of our currency to the hands of the Gov't..and not the banks)
5. Remove all lobbyist money from the pockets of elected officials
6. Publicly funded campaigns
7. Outlaw poltical attack ads.
8. Remove all pensions for elected officials and kill the environment and idea of the "career politician".
9. Term limits or mandatory retirement for all congressmen and SCOTUS justices.
10. removal of all redundant gov't programs, military and entitlement. streamline everything and make it more efficient.
11. balanced budget constitutional amendment that disallows the Fed Gov't to spend more than they take in.
12. Reel in the military from the majority of our global outposts. ONLY being in areas where we are truly wanted via treaty.
13. Reel in the amount of money we give allies AND enemies....Take that money and start spending it on our own.
Was this directed at me? If so, you're wrong on my occupation. I run my own tax consulting business. I help shrink the size of government and bite its hand every day. I like everything in your list with the possible exception of #11 for flexibility reasons and #4 as it would probably put me out of business and I like using the tax code to reward or punish behavior in a carrot and stick sort of way.
I don't see anything on your list that couldn't be accomplished through normal means. I certainly don't think taking to the streets and killing over the items on your list is the only option.
Got you mixed up with someone else.....apologies.
I never said armed insurrection was the only way.......but getting Gov't to give up their cake is not going to happen on it's own. They will never punish or penalize themselves from the gravy train. Not saying violence is the way....but taking to the streets and marching on DC in the millions could force their hand. Our military will never willfully mobilize against the people. They are sworn to protect the constitution. Not the Gov't. They take that oath seriously. And if they deem an order by the Commander in Chief as "unlawful"...they will stand down...which they are allowed to do.
Unfortunately, I don't think enough people care anymore. Not enough to stand up and be counted.
That's couldn't have been aimed at me, since I oppose excessive levels of both public and private power - and especially collusion between those concentrations of power.
I agree with 9 of your talking points, and see room for compromise on all the others. We aren't as far apart as it often seems..
it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.
The problem that you and I run into, is that you focus mainly on one side of the problem. And a lot of times you bring things up that are totally out of left field.
Guilty as charged, but there's a good reason for both of those traits. I tend to focus on the side that doesn't get enough attention. And I try to bring up facts and news articles that most people with MSM umbilical cords aren't even aware of.
I get a lot of crap on both counts but you know what's interesting? Often, months or years later, I have those "one-sided" and "left field" points said back to me. Satisfying enough for me to keep it up (usually) but disappointing that I never get any credit. I'm not claiming all the credit, of course, but if I have softened people up a little to be receptive to truth or a broader perspective, that's a good thing.
1.See #5.
2 and 3. Why? America is the most competitive economy on earth. Protectionism breeds complacency. I do believe in fair trade over free trade though.
4. Yes x 10,000!
5. Yes, if "lobbyist" includes unions.
6. How would funding be allocated? How would it not be manipulated by the party in power at the time?
7. Define "attack ad". Also, this seems to go completely against the first amendment.
8. Yes.
9. No. The electorate is lazy enough. If we don't like long term elected officials, we should vote them out of office.
10. Define redundant. Who decides?
11. Although I favor a balanced budget, I'm not sure we want to be as restrictive as a constitutional amendment. We need some flexibility for economic crises.
12. Yes. But we need to stay where our vital interests dictate.
13.Agree, but who defines "ally" and "enemy".
This post was edited on 3/30 12:30 PM by 86Hawkeye
I voted "mostly disagree" because it's a dumb quote to use for a poll.
I agree with him that the moral crisis of our age has nothing do with gay marriage or abortion.
I disagree with him that it's those other things that liberals always exaggerate in order to hate.
As is the case so frequently with these polls, the correct answer isn't listed. The moral crisis of our age is the decreasing amount of, and value placed on, individual responsibility.
I agree with him that the moral crisis of our age has nothing do with gay marriage or abortion.
I disagree with him that it's those other things that liberals always exaggerate in order to hate.
As is the case so frequently with these polls, the correct answer isn't listed. The moral crisis of our age is the decreasing amount of, and value placed on, individual responsibility.
- Sep 13, 2002
- 94,971
- 193,359
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One of the problems we face in America is the
lack of honesty and integrity of our elected officials.
It starts with the President and filters down to
Cabinet members, then U.S. Senators and U.S.
Representatives.
Unfortunately, they all have the same agenda:
to get re-elected. This means they are willing
to sacrifice the truth about many things in order
to win at the ballot box. Money heavily influences
their decisions as they rely on campaign funds to
make decisions.
lack of honesty and integrity of our elected officials.
It starts with the President and filters down to
Cabinet members, then U.S. Senators and U.S.
Representatives.
Unfortunately, they all have the same agenda:
to get re-elected. This means they are willing
to sacrifice the truth about many things in order
to win at the ballot box. Money heavily influences
their decisions as they rely on campaign funds to
make decisions.
That would be my guess, too. But even if NAFTA did create some jobs, were they good jobs? Even back under Clinton - when the economy was seemingly doing well - there were already growing complaints that too many jobs were of low quality and pay.
The Moral Crisis of Our Day is ignorance and/or flat out disregard for our Constitution, which is why we are 18 trillion in debt and have over 100 million in unfunded mandates. LC is second with his answer... Individual responsibility.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
We already "ban" speech in many ways. We have slander and libel laws, for starters. And anti-trust laws. We rarely apply them in the political arena and most of us are OK with having a relatively unfettered marketplace of ideas. But most of us also get upset about outright lies and propaganda. So is there some middle ground?
This answer is so damned obvious many folks can't see it. Pretty much Robert Reich has shown us that he is an intelligent man. All the things listed have lead directly (or indirectly) to wage and income inequity in America. Wage and wealth disparity will be the doom of our American economy.
Nice thread.
There's no need to take violent measures to "take it back." In fact, that is the wrong way every time. You have to engage in a revolution of the mind, a revolution of consciousness. The people have to want it to change. They have to want their elected officials to obey their wishes. Most of all, the people/members of society must improve themselves. Elected officials were just citizens before they got elected.
I still say the election process needs to be overhauled. The problem is; the majority of people who hold federal offices (congress and senate) have no interest in changing that system, because they are the first in line to reap the benefits of their own corrupt actions. They are not about to vote their meal ticket into a memory.
There's no need to take violent measures to "take it back." In fact, that is the wrong way every time. You have to engage in a revolution of the mind, a revolution of consciousness. The people have to want it to change. They have to want their elected officials to obey their wishes. Most of all, the people/members of society must improve themselves. Elected officials were just citizens before they got elected.
I still say the election process needs to be overhauled. The problem is; the majority of people who hold federal offices (congress and senate) have no interest in changing that system, because they are the first in line to reap the benefits of their own corrupt actions. They are not about to vote their meal ticket into a memory.
Consolidation of corporate media into a few dominant voices that limit the range of "news" and ideas expressed. Even the high-volume food fights mask a severe limitation of the topics discussed. So, for example, we argue whether we should go to war with Russia to punish their unprovoked aggression against Ukraine or, alternatively, whether we should use diplomacy, or just arm Kiev and let them duke it out. We never question whether Russia was, in fact, the aggressor.
In our nation's past there were business-oriented news outlets and labor-oriented news outlets. Quick, name a labor rag today. There are a few, but they certainly don't have loud voices.
I agree, but how do you change things if the elected officials like it the way things are and the people either don't care, feel helpless, or have been conned into defending the status quo?
If they like it? There's no if... they do like it. That's why this 2-party ruse is so strong and so wrong.
To be frank, I don't really know just how much change you can actually achieve through the political process. During the two Ron Paul campaign cycles, I learned a lot. Ron Paul even told me once that he was very skeptical of the political process in this country- itself- as a mechanism to make changes, especially in the short term. He told me that you have to change the narrative. You have to get ideas to be accepted by the general population. People have to instinctively WANT certain conditions to be in place. If the idea makes sense to enough people, it's a matter of time. When they want it bad enough, it has to become policy. Those two campaign cycles put 20 years on me. I was exhausted. Frustration doesn't do it justice. I didn't feel hopeless because there were no possibilities. I felt hopeless because I had no idea how polarized the population really was. I'd never really participated much in political action. It amazed me how this partisanship impedes this country's population. It's frustrating most of all because of the illusion of choice. They are so obstinate about their parties and the beneficiaries of the partisan allegiance falls squarely in the laps of the politicians, not the people.
The biggest problem, or impediment, that I see the general population suffers from is they are easily divided. As long as the people buy-in to this division of left and right, there's little chance of anything changing from a political perspective in the short term, or even long term, for that matter.
I've disagreed with you in the past, but I can't find a single point out of 13 that I don't agree with. I'd add reign in the NSA and make sure net neutrality is continued. Also, increase the tax on the top 10%, which certainly isn't any of us.
Thank you for contributing to our current political climate.
How about this...use your free speech to counter a political rival by promoting your ideas factually, instead of mud slinging?
Prove to the constituents why your ideas are better than the person running against you.........instead of proving how well you can throw rocks.
What I find funny is that liberals complain about businesses having too much influence on politics, but then look to businesses to influence politics when a law they don't like is enacted. Both sides are such hypocrites that it's just laughable.
