PSU Wrestler & Olympic Qualifier Aaron Brooks Tested Positive for a PED

[98lberEating2Lunches]

More NCAA athletes use amphetamines than the adult population has ADHD.

Have you ever heard of:
1) the placebo effect;
2) correlation is not causation.

Do you understand both are real and true?

Do you understand the meaning of:
"low probability of significant enhancement beyond what an athlete might otherwise achieve"?

If there is some measurement taken seen as athletically advantageous, that is not the same as it being significant beyond what an athlete might otherwise achieve.

Sorry (not sorry) that the UWW and WADA position on inclusiveness trumps your predilection for some absolute purity of sport.

You posted an article that says the NCAA lacks a TUE process akin to UWW ("The NCAA has failed miserably at controlling [TUEs]," says Travis Tygart, CEO of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA). ") That's that article's beef, the control of TUEs. It's pretty irrelevant to the present discussion regarding AB.

And you seem to ignore that Adderall is low dose amphetamine when touting the general benefit of amphetamine regarding athletic performance.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

well i used the word prick because one of your guys called DT a prick. i’m mostly talking about not seeing much defense of DT from ABs comments or the few posters who are attacking him. I found it surprising. The dude has been the face of the program for 15 years.

and it looks like suspended. i didn’t read the fine print. i read banned and moved on. still ridiculous assuming the guy who called DT a prick didn’t get a suspension too.

I think they went overboard. Everyone steps over the line every once in awhile - fuggedaboutit 🤌🏻🤌🏻

Enjoy the 10 days in the penalty box. I’ve been there before. Get some fresh air and come back with renewed vigor.

#freejs8793

 

[HawkeyePA]

I LOVE how all of the TROLLS have now decided to forget about their budding law degrees and focus on their newly found Medical Degrees and are able to spout on about the prescriptions effects and non effects on athletes . So lets get the facts straight and watch the lions of the pride devour those that are not as close to the King as others. If the story being told on this boards hurts your feeling or pisses you off...then just LEAVE !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Vak]

I just operate on the presumption that all high level athletes are on some kind of gas, including Iowa. It reminds me of the discussions we would have around Lance Armstrong back in the day. "The guy dominating the sport is also the only clean competitor!" So I'm unsurprised when anyone pops hot. But there's a price for taking that risk. If you get caught, you pay the piper.

I find people are tending to argue out of both sides of their mouth, as you would expect, to benefit their preferred team. People arguing we should defer our opinion to the findings of whatever administrative body is going to make this decision, but also refusing to acknowledge that Adderall (and similar drugs) are PEDs even though they are classified as such by those same administrative bodies.

Bottom line is it IS a PED, but there's a loophole that athletes can use to try to be allowed to use said PED. As a lawyer, I would tell you if you're going to use a loophole, you sure as shit better make sure your paperwork is correct; that's on you.

ON a side note, I talked to a friend with PSU connections who told me he would be absolutely shocked if DT was the one who leaked this, and that this information, while new to most of us, was known by a lot of people. As far as I know, this person doesn't have any super deep connection w/ David specifically. As has been hinted, though, there is apparently some...mutual animus between some of the current PSU guys and Taylor and his crew, but he feels it's more just about friction between high level athletes going for the same thing, which...nice to see it finally happening somewhere else, lol, especially there.

 

[MSU158]

Who's that "one," you?... one who doesn't think very hard?

College aged male + Jesus' forgiveness + other forms of pleasure beyond intercourse would surely render the side effect highly undesirable.

Lol, so you endorse high level hypocrisy, then? The guy proselytizes publicly to the point that he calls other religions false and he can only achieve everything through God. Sex outside of marriage isn't exactly a low-level "crime" in the eyes of the more "strict" Christian religions.....

Mind you, I really don't care either way. I am not running around saying he cheated. I just found it a funny argument coming from you when defending a PSU guy that preaches such a religious lifestyle as loud as any top wrestler I can remember.

As far as what I actually think? Sure, being a Catholic myself I am well aware that many "religious" people are as hypocritical as anyone out there. Strictly following Christian tenets is HARD and often doesn't show immediate rewards. It is much easier to use it when it suits you and then discard it when hard and try to "repent" later when you need to feel good again...

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Recent Bloomberg article on amphetamine abuse.

Adderall Abuse Risks Becoming Another Opioid Crisis, DEA Says

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The fast rise of prescriptions for Adderall and other stimulants, along with rampant online treatment and advertising, suggest the start of another drug crisis like the opioid epidemic, a senior Drug Enforcement Administration official said Thursday.

The warning is the most urgent public message yet on these types of drugs by the agency.

“I’m not trying to be a doomsday-er here,” said Matthew Strait, deputy assistant administrator in the diversion control division said in an online seminar. But he compared the current situation with stimulants to the beginning of the opioid crisis and said “it makes me feel like we’re at the precipice of our next drug crisis in the United States.”

The agency is working on new regulations for online stimulant prescriptions, a practice that was made easier at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.

“The crisis, if you will, is not in the prescription of the medication,” Goodman said. “The crisis is in the accuracy of the diagnosis.”

There are no standard guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD in adults, which is “most concerning” for the DEA, Strait said. Specialists in the field have been working on creating such standards over the past two years.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

being a Catholic myself I am well aware that many "religious" people are as hypocritical as anyone out there. Strictly following Christian tenets is HARD and often doesn't show immediate rewards.

Also being raised a Catholic myself (and have many non-Catholic Christian friends), I am well aware of Martin Luther's position and it's approach to forgiveness of sin and entrance into heaven. I don't think 'repent' necessarily applies. I don't know whether AB is Catholic or some form of Protestant, but from his words I assume the latter.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Recent Bloomberg article on amphetamine abuse.

Adderall Abuse Risks Becoming Another Opioid Crisis, DEA Says

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The fast rise of prescriptions for Adderall and other stimulants, along with rampant online treatment and advertising, suggest the start of another drug crisis like the opioid epidemic, a senior Drug Enforcement Administration official said Thursday.

The warning is the most urgent public message yet on these types of drugs by the agency.

“I’m not trying to be a doomsday-er here,” said Matthew Strait, deputy assistant administrator in the diversion control division said in an online seminar. But he compared the current situation with stimulants to the beginning of the opioid crisis and said “it makes me feel like we’re at the precipice of our next drug crisis in the United States.”

The agency is working on new regulations for online stimulant prescriptions, a practice that was made easier at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.

“The crisis, if you will, is not in the prescription of the medication,” Goodman said. “The crisis is in the accuracy of the diagnosis.”

There are no standard guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD in adults, which is “most concerning” for the DEA, Strait said. Specialists in the field have been working on creating such standards over the past two years.

To be clear:

1) I understand misuse and abuse, as it might relate to addiction (be it drug, cigarettes, coffee, or alcohol; and performance enhancing or not)
2) It would be nice if the NCAA had TUE controls more like WADA.
3) It would be nice if the NCAA and WADA had better testing that might detect misuse or abuse.

But until someone funds it, 2) and 3) won't happen. The juice has to be worth the squeeze. And even if 2) and 3) happen, it would not affect the general population.

So it is good that medical professionals are seeking some standard that might affect the general population to reduce the potential of misuse or abuse.

That said, it doesn't seem relevant to facts of AB's case, which is the subject of this thread.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

To be clear:

1) I understand misuse and abuse, as it might relate to addiction (be it drug, cigarettes, and alcohol or performance enhancing or not)
2) It would be nice if the NCAA had a TUE like process.
3) It would be nice if the NCAA and WASA had better testing that might detect misuse or abuse.

But until someone funds it, 2) and 3) won't happen. And even if 2) and 3) happen, it would not affect the general population.

So it is good that medical professionals are seeking some standard that might affect the general population to reduce the potential of misuse or abuse.

That said, it doesn't seem relevant to facts of AB's case, which is the subject of this thread.

The NCAA does have TUE. But it's not even really necessary considering that NCAA testing is a joke anyway and because amphetamines leave your system so quickly after using.

I think the general topic of PED use and amphetamine use in particular is exactly relevant to the subject of this thread (which I started). You and other PSU fans wanting to sweep amphetamines under the rug just because AB tested positive doesn't mean the issues surrounding PEDs in the sport of wrestling and amphetamine abuse doesn't exist or shouldn't be discussed.

There was another recent thread here about the NCAAs testing for PEDs and it had about 5 replies. Almost no one in the sport (or sports in general) wants to touch the topic.

We love to talk about how much cheating the Russians do. Well the stimulant amphetamines are banned outright in Russia. I'm not claiming they don't use them, but they aren't legally prescribing amphetamines to any individual who wants to use and is smart enough to answer the questionaiire in a way that will get you a prescription.

I don't know any of ABs personal health circumstances and would never claim to. I won't consider him a cheater until he's banned for cheating like Daton Fix was. That said, it raises red flags to me when you have a 20+ year old athlete who self admits that they started taking amphetamines to aid with school work.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

You and other PSU fans wanting to sweep amphetamines under the rug just because AB tested positive

How am I sweeping it under the rug when I am openly discussing it on this forum and providing logical arguments rather than ad hominem attacks including unfounded assertions of other poster's motives?

 

[AFHawk86]

 

[blcoach80]

The NCAA does have TUE. But it's not even really necessary considering that NCAA testing is a joke anyway and because amphetamines leave your system so quickly after using.

I think the general topic of PED use and amphetamine use in particular is exactly relevant to the subject of this thread (which I started). You and other PSU fans wanting to sweep amphetamines under the rug just because AB tested positive doesn't mean the issues surrounding PEDs in the sport of wrestling and amphetamine abuse doesn't exist or shouldn't be discussed.

There was another recent thread here about the NCAAs testing for PEDs and it had about 5 replies. Almost no one in the sport (or sports in general) wants to touch the topic.

We love to talk about how much cheating the Russians do. Well the stimulant amphetamines are banned outright in Russia. I'm not claiming they don't use them, but they aren't legally prescribing amphetamines to any individual who wants to use and is smart enough to answer the questionaiire in a way that will get you a prescription.

I don't know any of ABs personal health circumstances and would never claim to. I won't consider him a cheater until he's banned for cheating like Daton Fix was. That said, it raises red flags to me when you have a 20+ year old athlete who self admits that they started taking amphetamines to aid with school work.

I think the sure fire way to know the real reasoning behind amphetamine use by prescription would be to hear a breakdown of how many prescriptions for it would be given on any one given team (which we will never know or get that information anyway). If a couple wrestlers on any given team are using prescription Adderall I can find that legitimate. If you have a bunch of teammates using prescription Adderall legally I think it is pretty fair to believe there is a secondary reason as to why. Was Brooks the only PSU wrestler using Adderall or was 5 or 6 teammates as well? That is what would be very telling one way or another and not very difficult for the right entity to get that information. I doubt anything nefarious is going on at Happy Valley, but I also don't doubt they would step into the "gray" areas to gain competitive advantages. They have been pushing the envelope for awhile before other teams started catching on imo, but that is the case in most sports. Innovation and cutting edge and cheating are a very fine line.

 

[evashevsky58]

Also being raised a Catholic myself (and have many non-Catholic Christian friends), I am well aware of Martin Luther's position and it's approach to forgiveness of sin and entrance into heaven. I don't think 'repent' necessarily applies. I don't know whether AB is Catholic or some form of Protestant, but from his words I assume the latter.

Yay fellow Catholics!

 

[PSU Mike]

I think the sure fire way to know the real reasoning behind amphetamine use by prescription would be to hear a breakdown of how many prescriptions for it would be given on any one given team (which we will never know or get that information anyway). If a couple wrestlers on any given team are using prescription Adderall I can find that legitimate. If you have a bunch of teammates using prescription Adderall legally I think it is pretty fair to believe there is a secondary reason as to why. Was Brooks the only PSU wrestler using Adderall or was 5 or 6 teammates as well? That is what would be very telling one way or another and not very difficult for the right entity to get that information. I doubt anything nefarious is going on at Happy Valley, but I also don't doubt they would step into the "gray" areas to gain competitive advantages. They have been pushing the envelope for awhile before other teams started catching on imo, but that is the case in most sports. Innovation and cutting edge and cheating are a very fine line.

Like Treigning Lab?

 

[blcoach80]

Yes that would be one. Now other schools have started utilizing it as well, including Iowa. I don't think most were confident in using them 5 years ago.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Prescription Adderall is low dose amphetamine.

The UWW rules mandate that any exemption for therapeutic use "will not, on the balance of probabilities produce significant enhancement of performance beyond the athlete’s normal state of health."

Exceeding the therapeutic use level would be considered abuse and would not be exempted.

So AB has been determined to have, at most, received an insignificant benefit.

As erectile dysfunction is a known side effect of Adderall, I personally don't see how that significant diminution would out weigh the insignificant enhancement.

So I have to fall on the side of nothing burger for this one.

I'm there too. I'd have to see something real to believe anything. Lot's of people on here making lots of assumptions based on lots of nothing. If/when there is something real published, by all means, go ape shit crazy, but until I see something real this is all poo poo.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Yes that would be one. Now other schools have started utilizing it as well, including Iowa. I don't think most were confident in using them 5 years ago.

Exactly, I'm not a huge supplement fan due to dubious claims, but nutrition can make a difference at the high end when small improvements mean a lot.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I think the sure fire way to know the real reasoning behind amphetamine use by prescription would be to hear a breakdown of how many prescriptions for it would be given on any one given team (which we will never know or get that information anyway). If a couple wrestlers on any given team are using prescription Adderall I can find that legitimate. If you have a bunch of teammates using prescription Adderall legally I think it is pretty fair to believe there is a secondary reason as to why. Was Brooks the only PSU wrestler using Adderall or was 5 or 6 teammates as well? That is what would be very telling one way or another and not very difficult for the right entity to get that information. I doubt anything nefarious is going on at Happy Valley, but I also don't doubt they would step into the "gray" areas to gain competitive advantages. They have been pushing the envelope for awhile before other teams started catching on imo, but that is the case in most sports. Innovation and cutting edge and cheating are a very fine line.

Very well said, years ago i would read artic les on this website, T Nation. One thread on their forum had all of these fold bragging about how much they were spending on their supplements, some were as high as $500 per month. Actual steroids and increased good food would be cheaper with better results. I know that the steroid option is illegal but the sight was touting "steroid like effects".

These guys didn't want to use anything illegally but were trying to find a legal and more safe work around. Unfortunately they were getting ripped off. Now actual nutritional consulting can be helpful, but probably only in extremes such as high end athletics or possibly with novices who need to lose a decent amount of weight.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I'm there too. I'd have to see something real to believe anything. Lot's of people on here making lots of assumptions based on lots of nothing. If/when there is something real published, by all means, go ape shit crazy, but until I see something real this is all poo poo.

You've missed the larger discussion on amphetamine (and PED) use in sport and in wrestling. It's not just about AB, although when things like this happen, it triggers the discussion. Again, I find it wild that people are so quick to write off amphetamine use just because it can be prescribed. This completely ignores the reality, that ADHD diagnoses aren't made by any sort of imaging test. If you are smart enough to answer the questions appropriately and you find the right doctor, anyone can get an amphetamine prescription. It's such a problem that the DEA has just put out a public statement saying that it's becoming another opiod crisis.

Claiming it's all poo poo or nothing burger is a typical head in sand response to PED use in sports and in particular at the NCAA level. It's either ignorance or delusion.

 

[hawki4ever]

You've missed the larger discussion on amphetamine (and PED) use in sport and in wrestling. It's not just about AB, although when things like this happen, it triggers the discussion. Again, I find it wild that people are so quick to write off amphetamine use just because it can be prescribed. This completely ignores the reality, that ADHD diagnoses aren't made by any sort of imaging test. If you are smart enough to answer the questions appropriately and you find the right doctor, anyone can get an amphetamine prescription. It's such a problem that the DEA has just put out a public statement saying that it's becoming another opiod crisis.

Claiming it's all poo poo or nothing burger is a typical head in sand response to PED use in sports and in particular at the NCAA level. It's either ignorance or delusion.

I don’t understand why they don’t just legalize amphetamines below a certain level so there is a level playing field for the athletes? Is there another PED that you can test positive for if prescribed? This is an honest question, I will acknowledge I’m ignorant on this whole PED prescription thing.

 

[horraybeer]

You've missed the larger discussion on amphetamine (and PED) use in sport and in wrestling. It's not just about AB, although when things like this happen, it triggers the discussion. Again, I find it wild that people are so quick to write off amphetamine use just because it can be prescribed. This completely ignores the reality, that ADHD diagnoses aren't made by any sort of imaging test. If you are smart enough to answer the questions appropriately and you find the right doctor, anyone can get an amphetamine prescription. It's such a problem that the DEA has just put out a public statement saying that it's becoming another opiod crisis.

Claiming it's all poo poo or nothing burger is a typical head in sand response to PED use in sports and in particular at the NCAA level. It's either ignorance or delusion.

You're a Saint Vodka, keep on preaching brother.

 

[Hawkdiver]

I don’t understand why they don’t just legalize amphetamines below a certain level so there is a level playing field for the athletes? Is there another PED that you can test positive for if prescribed? This is an honest question, I will acknowledge I’m ignorant on this whole PED prescription thing.

In short yes, any PED can test positive with a prescription.

I know way more about this process than I probably should but a prescription means next to nothing. The athlete must apply for a TUE for anything on the banned list (including asthma inhalers). The application requires the clinical notes from the prescribing doctor, reasons for the prescription, alternatives that have been explored, etc. USADA or the IGB make an initial determination and ultimately empanel a group of independent physicians to determine if the TUE is warranted, are the medical explanations legitimate, are there alternatives, etc. and then render either an approval or denial of the TUE. Plenty get denied as they do not fit the standard of care protocols.

These can also be handled in a retro aspect if the athlete tests positive but had never submitted a TUE request. The same process is followed. My guess is this is where AB is at, he had to submit a retro request and it can be time consuming to pull everything together. The big question is did the prescribing physician follow the standard of care and have the clinical notes to support that care/prescription? As long as this is taking I would not bank on AB clearing the "red tape" that is discussed.

 

[hawki4ever]

In short yes, any PED can test positive with a prescription.

I know way more about this process than I probably should but a prescription means next to nothing. The athlete must apply for a TUE for anything on the banned list (including asthma inhalers). The application requires the clinical notes from the prescribing doctor, reasons for the prescription, alternatives that have been explored, etc. USADA or the IGB make an initial determination and ultimately empanel a group of independent physicians to determine if the TUE is warranted, are the medical explanations legitimate, are there alternatives, etc. and then render either an approval or denial of the TUE. Plenty get denied as they do not fit the standard of care protocols.

These can also be handled in a retro aspect if the athlete tests positive but had never submitted a TUE request. The same process is followed. My guess is this is where AB is at, he had to submit a retro request and it can be time consuming to pull everything together. The big question is did the prescribing physician follow the standard of care and have the clinical notes to support that care/prescription? As long as this is taking I would not bank on AB clearing the "red tape" that is discussed.

Thanks for the informative response.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I don’t understand why they don’t just legalize amphetamines below a certain level so there is a level playing field for the athletes? Is there another PED that you can test positive for if prescribed? This is an honest question, I will acknowledge I’m ignorant on this whole PED prescription thing.

Caffeine is banned at certain levels for example. Yes it's not a prescription drug , but that's an example of a legal substance that is illegal at certain levels. There are other drugs that are banned for certain reasons that might have an exemption for therapeutic use.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

You've missed the larger discussion on amphetamine (and PED) use in sport and in wrestling. It's not just about AB, although when things like this happen, it triggers the discussion. Again, I find it wild that people are so quick to write off amphetamine use just because it can be prescribed. This completely ignores the reality, that ADHD diagnoses aren't made by any sort of imaging test. If you are smart enough to answer the questions appropriately and you find the right doctor, anyone can get an amphetamine prescription. It's such a problem that the DEA has just put out a public statement saying that it's becoming another opiod crisis.

Claiming it's all poo poo or nothing burger is a typical head in sand response to PED use in sports and in particular at the NCAA level. It's either ignorance or delusion.

Brother, if the NCAA determines there were shenanigans I’ll start getting interested in what’s going on but for now all I’ve seen or read is from sources that are nowhere near official and a lot of opinion and a lot of bullshit. I’m not saying PED use isn’t a big deal or doesn’t need to be dealt with harshly. But I am saying this is nothing unless/until the NCAA or other body makes it a big deal, and so far they haven’t.

 

[ff141]

Brother, if the NCAA determines there were shenanigans I’ll start getting interested in what’s going on but for now all I’ve seen or read is from sources that are nowhere near official and a lot of opinion and a lot of bullshit. I’m not saying PED use isn’t a big deal or doesn’t need to be dealt with harshly. But I am saying this is nothing unless/until the NCAA or other body makes it a big deal, and so far they haven’t.

That’s kinda funny

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Brother, if the NCAA determines there were shenanigans I’ll start getting interested in what’s going on but for now all I’ve seen or read is from sources that are nowhere near official and a lot of opinion and a lot of bullshit. I’m not saying PED use isn’t a big deal or doesn’t need to be dealt with harshly. But I am saying this is nothing unless/until the NCAA or other body makes it a big deal, and so far they haven’t.

The fact that you don't even understand this failed test wasn't from the NCAA but from Brooks' international competition and the international regulatory bodies speaks for itself. You're completely uninformed and naive.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

That’s kinda funny

Straight up head in sand.

 

[HawkeyePA]

so what some of you are saying is... The Iowa gamblers knew the rules and got caught violating those rules and deserved to lose their wrestling year as a punishment BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Since Brooks violated a known PED rule and it was against the rules but since his drug was used for many purposes besides PED then he should be good to go and all should be forgiven and forgotten ? HMMMM ...okay that makes it much clearer and I totally understand. I am relieved that all of the medical professionals have so much spare time during their busy days to come here and explain it to us....repeatedly ...over and over... so we can buy into it...

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Brooks violated a known PED rule

No. I never commented on the gambling penallties, and Brooks complied with the rules, as I understand his circumstances.

As I understand them, it was USA wrestling that dropped the ball in communicating AB's TUE paperwork to UWW and WADA. The narrative that there was an after the positive test rush for paperwork is unfounded.

Furthermore, I think this is the main difference between AB's and JO's circumstances.

Also, I am retired, so no more busy days.

 

[bourbon n blues]

No. I never commented on the gambling penallties, and Brooks complied with the rules, as I understand his circumstances.

As I understand them, it was USA wrestling that dropped the ball in communicating AB's TUE paperwork to UWW and WADA. The narrative that there was an after the positive test rush for paperwork is unfounded.

Furthermore, I think this is the main difference between AB's and JO's circumstances. I believe only the NCAA allows for a retroactive TUE application after testing positive. I am unaware that UWW and WADA similarly allow for one.

Also, I am retired, so no more busy days.

Don't confuse people with facts or point out how this is apples to kumquats.

 

[The Vak]

No. I never commented on the gambling penallties, and Brooks complied with the rules, as I understand his circumstances.

As I understand them, it was USA wrestling that dropped the ball in communicating AB's TUE paperwork to UWW and WADA. The narrative that there was an after the positive test rush for paperwork is unfounded.

Furthermore, I think this is the main difference between AB's and JO's circumstances. I believe only the NCAA allows for a retroactive TUE application after testing positive. I am unaware that UWW and WADA similarly allow for one.

Also, I am retired, so no more busy days.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the order of events, he definitively did NOT comply with the rules and is now attempting to get retroactive relief.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

he definitively did NOT comply with the rules and is now attempting to get retroactive relief.

But retroactive TUEs are definitely allowed by the rules, true?

And the exact nature of the paperwork issue was known, true?

And per the rules, AB was granted permission to compete in the Olympic Trials with the regulating bodies having the best available information regarding his circumstances, true?

Sure sounds like he's operating within the rules to me.

 

[cidhawkeye]

so what some of you are saying is... The Iowa gamblers knew the rules and got caught violating those rules and deserved to lose their wrestling year as a punishment BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Since Brooks violated a known PED rule and it was against the rules but since his drug was used for many purposes besides PED then he should be good to go and all should be forgiven and forgotten ? HMMMM ...okay that makes it much clearer and I totally understand. I am relieved that all of the medical professionals have so much spare time during their busy days to come here and explain it to us....repeatedly ...over and over... so we can buy into it...

JoPa did what he was supposed to do and it was just a money grab............
my bad, wrong denial, deflection and dismissal thread...........

 

[The Vak]

But retroactive TUEs are definitely allowed by the rules, true?

And the exact nature of the paperwork issue was known, true?

And per the rules, AB was granted permission to compete in the Olympic Trials with the regulating bodies having the best available information regarding his circumstances, true?

Sure sounds like he's operating within the rules to me.

Ok, but you're tryingto create a binary situation that isn't accurate. What he did in popping positive for a drug he didn't have TUE for is definitively outside the rules. Period. End of story. Nothing changes that. he's trying to get retroactive relief, which is fine and I hope he gets it. But what you are trying to allege is that his actions in October were within the rules because of things he's doing 7 months later. That's not true. What if they suspend him for a year, now are you saying the actions in October were outside the rules? No.

They're individual circumstances. He used Vyvanse outside of the rules in October. Period. End of story. He's seeking relief for that rule breaking now, but relief =/= "within the rules."

 

[IRONBIRD]

so what some of you are saying is... The Iowa gamblers knew the rules and got caught violating those rules and deserved to lose their wrestling year as a punishment BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Since Brooks violated a known PED rule and it was against the rules but since his drug was used for many purposes besides PED then he should be good to go and all should be forgiven and forgotten ? HMMMM ...okay that makes it much clearer and I totally understand. I am relieved that all of the medical professionals have so much spare time during their busy days to come here and explain it to us....repeatedly ...over and over... so we can buy into it...

Well said!

Unless I'm misunderstanding the order of events, he definitively did NOT comply with the rules and is now attempting to get retroactive relief.

YES!

Ok, but you're tryingto create a binary situation that isn't accurate. What he did in popping positive for a drug he didn't have TUE for is definitively outside the rules. Period. End of story. Nothing changes that. he's trying to get retroactive relief, which is fine and I hope he gets it. But what you are trying to allege is that his actions in October were within the rules because of things he's doing 7 months later. That's not true. What if they suspend him for a year, now are you saying the actions in October were outside the rules? No.

They're individual circumstances. He used Vyvanse outside of the rules in October. Period. End of story. He's seeking relief for that rule breaking now, but relief =/= "within the rules."

True



IF ANY of you clowns really believe 1) he was taking this for ANYTHING else but performance? Then call my 1 800 bridges4sale number please!!! 2) IF you believe this was ALL he was using? Go to my webpage GoodSwampLand4sale.com 3) I will go on record saying A) he gets his ASS kick and/or B) he tests positive AGAIN IF he gets this swept under the rug and goes to the O!!!!

FACTS are FACTS, and AGAIN, when I CALLED IT, I was told I was wrong and/or worse. A blind man can see what is happening over in F*** happy land!!!! They have ALREADY had at least a 1/2 dozen upper weights "bump up" in weights in the last 10 or so years.

Several were thin built who would certainly have trouble adding weight. Good ol CassarSalad being one of the best examples. Having added 40 pounds and of course now he is down again!??!? They are now talking about the HorsesAss StarFish bumping TWOOOOOO weights!!!!

NEWS for you ALL: He aint that big at 174!!!! HERE is to hoping AJ gets his act together and murders that turkey(on the mat LEGALLY of course!!!) They have other wrestlers who seemed "odd" in there sudden build and performance increases. The KerKin fits this well.

BIG Cass handled him the first time or two, and I said it very clearly because I knew what was coming. Tony never had trouble with smaller guys, so "all of a sudden" KerKin was now MUCH bigger. Yet another F*** st miracle!!!

You know what is also very odd? You NEVER see them post ANY workout videos??? I mean once I saw a few guys running up and down the street with a log. Have you seen ANY of them TRAINING in a gym? I mean our wrestlers it is kind of rare to see but you do see them.

Last one I saw was SUPERMAN LEE and some guy and they were doing various exercises. ALL I see is the playing dodge ball and talking about going to some "users" special workout place!!!!

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

But what you are trying to allege is that his actions in October were within the rules because of things he's doing 7 months later.

No. I am not saying that. There was a process that could strip him of his U23 title, true?

He hasn't yet been stripped of his U23 title, true?

I agree 7 months have passed since Aaron competed in U23s in October 2023. But if I am alleging anything, it's that he took action soon after and USA wrestling dropped the ball. So he availed himself of the retroactive approval rule.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

What if they suspend him for a year, now are you saying the actions in October were outside the rules? No.

Yes. I will say that due process occurred in accordance with the rules, and the ruling body determined he was not in compliance with the rules.

And if and when that happens, I expect he will be stripped of his U23 title, his 86kg spot on the Olympic Team will be forfeited, many on GIA will celebrate, and my life will not in the least be materially affected.

 

[The Vak]

Yes. I will say that due process occurred in accordance with the rules, and the ruling body determined he was not in compliance with the rules.

And if and when that happens, I expect he will be stripped of his U23 title, his 86kg spot on the Olympic Team will be forfeited, many on GIA will celebrate, and my life will not in the least be materially affected.

You have to have a TUE before using a substance. He didn't have one. This isn't even debatable. He was operating outside of the rules at the time. For example, if a president or governor gives a pardon or clemency to a person convicted of a crime, that does not go backward in time and make their actions legal at the time, it simply gives them a reprieve.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

He used Vyvanse ... in October.

Interesting. He said Adderall in the Basch interview, no?

If he only had a prescription for Adderall and used Vyvanse, or WADA protocol dictates use of Adderall vs Vyvanse, then I agree he did not comply with the rule.