Quarterback play at Iowa

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

First off, I come in peace.

It’s no secret quarterback play has been much-maligned throughout Kirk’s tenure. The question naturally becomes: why?

Let’s start with Jake Christensen. He was highly touted coming out of high school, whose dad played in the NFL. Obviously, he never lived up to the billing. Okay, recruiting is a crapshoot and busts happen.

James Vandenberg. IIRC, was a prolific passer in high school whose Iowa career looked promising when he stepped in for injured Ricky Stanzi at the Shoe and played phenomenally. Needless to say, it went downhill from there.

Jake Rudock. Was derisively known for “check downs,” but finished his college career at Michigan, where he excelled in Harbaugh’s first year.

Nate Stanley. A genuine case of Jekyll and Hyde. We all remember his phenomenal games against USC and OSU as much as we do debacles like his performance at Penn State.

We don’t need to recap Spencer Petras, although it’s worth noting (for those who don’t know) Petras was a 4-star prospect who broke all of Goff’s passing records in high school. I don’t care how good his high school team was, you don’t put up those numbers if you can’t throw.

So here’s my question: Is the Iowa offense “too complex” and/or not quarterback friendly? I know the “too complex offense” has been a source of jokes on here, but seriously. There’s clearly a long list of quarterbacks during Kirk’s tenure who have been downright dreadful, many of whom came to Iowa with a lot of accolades. Yes, I understand the quarterback position is difficult. Yes, I get there are busts in recruiting, but it seems to me there’s a pattern here spanning fifteen years.

So, in short, is it the system or quarterback development? Or both? Or something else?

Oh, and yes, another thread about Iowa quarterbacks. If that’s how you view it, no problem. I’m not asking you to participate in the discussion, so please feel free not to leave snarky comments. Thanks.

 

[David1979]

First, it didn't go downhill for Vandenberg until Davis got here. He was great his Junior year.
Second, Rudock was good at Iowa but Beathard was just better because of his arm.
I thought Stanley was a good college QB just not great but his biggest weakness was a problem. His accuracy needed to be better but that is Iowa's fault for recruiting a kid that barely passed in HS and never was very accurate. I

Third yes the Iowa offense is not QB friendly and Iowa usually lacks great skill guys and when they do they usually fail to take advantage of them the way other offenses do.

I don't think there has been a lot of dreadful QBs at Iowa. I would say Jake C and Spencer P are by far the worst starters. Most at least got a look by the NFL. That to me shows Iowa's offense is the issue. Also have been really bad at running the ball for too many years when that is supposed to be what the offense is built around.

 

[kcgolfer]

Iowa’s offense is not too complicated. It’s too damn basic. It lacks imagination. There is no disguise to it. Everyone knows what’s coming by our personnel and formations. When you add in our mediocre athletes it’s what it is, a disaster by any measure.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

High school skills do not necessarily translate to college ball.

Defenses and schemes improve 100 fold. College ball is vastly more complex, plays break down. The ability to scramble / evade defenders and throw an accurate pass on the run are at a premium. Making quick, good decisions is at a premium.

Look at what Russell Wilson did for Wisc. Or what OSU’s athletic QBs for them every year.

Hell Banks nearly won the Heisman at Iowa! We have known this since 2002.

 

[David1979]

Iowa’s offense is not too complicated. It’s too damn basic. It lacks imagination. There is no disguise to it. Everyone knows what’s coming by our personnel and formations. When you add in our mediocre athletes it’s what it is, a disaster by any measure.

Well, the passing game is too complicated because it relies too much on the QB to read defenses himself. The best college OCs have learned you need to take as much off the plate of the QB as possible. Make it easier for them, not more difficult. Now, yes the running game is too predictable a lot of times but so are a lot of schools. Iowa also make's life hard on themselves by playing in a phone book a lot of the times instead of spreading the defense out.

 

[iafan44]

Will you please list the qbs under Kirk that have been down right dreadful?

 

[MikeyHawk]

Will you please list the qbs under Kirk that have been down right dreadful?

Petras?

 

[BurgHawk87]

Petras?

Will you please list the qbs under Kirk that have been down right dreadful?

Jake the snake, jason Manson...those are two who started and played pretty dreadful. John wienke was an elite 11 QB who punted for Iowa. I don't think that qualifies as dreadful but I find it funny. Marvin mcnutt and djk were so bad at QB that they moved to wr. Chad Greenway had to move to the other side of the ball altogether. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

 

[bdcolt45er]

Well, the passing game is too complicated because it relies too much on the QB to read defenses himself. The best college OCs have learned you need to take as much off the plate of the QB as possible. Make it easier for them, not more difficult. Now, yes the running game is too predictable a lot of times but so are a lot of schools. Iowa also make's life hard on themselves by playing in a phone book a lot of the times instead of spreading the defense out.

The offense is decision heavy when most college systems have gone to decision light. It's not just the pre snap assistance. A lot of teams basically cut the field in half for the QB at the snap or they provide a lot of if than decisions. Zone read, RPOs have very clear decision points. The QB doesn't have to think they just react. Iowa expects the QB to identify the defense and then decide which of a series of options is the best choice. I would argue a lot of teams don't focus on the best choice every play but QB should select the 1st effective option. Overtime as long as you are hitting effective plays you eventually will hit a big play.

 

[BurgHawk87]

The offense is decision heavy when most college systems have gone to decision light. It's not just the pre snap assistance. A lot of teams basically cut the field in half for the QB at the snap or they provide a lot of if than decisions. Zone read, RPOs have very clear decision points. The QB doesn't have to think they just react. Iowa expects the QB to identify the defense and then decide which of a series of options is the best choice. I would argue a lot of teams don't focus on the best choice every play but QB should select the 1st effective option. Overtime as long as you are hitting effective plays you eventually will hit a big play.

Cutting the field in half is a great thing for younger guys, although I think Iowa does this as well (unfortunately cut by distance it seems). I also think that's why o$u QB's in general seem to tear up the college game and then don't translate to the NFL at all. I'm not asking for an NFL ready QB in any sense. That's a reach for most schools. But let's stop trying to treat every position as NFL building blocks when clearly that doesn't work.

 

[Frosty7130]

Jake the snake, jason Manson...those are two who started and played pretty dreadful. John wienke was an elite 11 QB who punted for Iowa. I don't think that qualifies as dreadful but I find it funny. Marvin mcnutt and djk were so bad at QB that they moved to wr. Chad Greenway had to move to the other side of the ball altogether. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

DJK and Chad Greenway were never QBs at Iowa. And "played QB in HS" is not even remotely similar here, considering most HS teams will put their best athlete at QB. At that point you might as well add Micah Hyde, Jack Hockaday, Brandon Scherff, Cooper DeJean, Parker Hesse, and a host of other "QBs" to that list.

 

[jonesy5960]

Will you please list the qbs under Kirk that have been down right dreadful?

Kirk hasn't had a lot of dreadful QB's but a good college qb should be hitting 60% of his passes and over 7 yards per attempt. That would normally put you in the top 75 FBS QB's or so for completion percentage. Iowa quarterbacks over the last 20 years have failed more often than not to hit those marks and no one other than Drew Tate and Jake Rudock has done it for their careers. As far as dreadful goes, Jake Christensen was under 55% and 6.3 YPA for his career. I'd call that pretty dreadful. This year was also pretty dreadful at 55% and 6.2 YPA. I think it's safe to say that Iowa's QB play under Kirk has been fairly pedestrian overall. Not horrible. Not very good.

 

[BurgHawk87]

DJK and Chad Greenway were never QBs at Iowa. And "played QB in HS" is not even remotely similar here, considering most HS teams will put their best athlete at QB. At that point you might as well add Micah Hyde, Jack Hockaday, Brandon Scherff, Cooper DeJean, Parker Hesse, and a host of other "QBs" to that list.

I was hoping that most of those were going to be tongue in cheek additions but I guess not. My bad.

 

[Lumas Etima]

I think another piece to the puzzle that should be considered when evaluating QB play at Iowa is what seems like a relatively large number of quarterbacks who transferred out, and went on to find success elsewhere. Off the top of my head, there has been Cody Sokol, Peyton Mansell, Jake Rudock, Arvell Nelson, Nic Shimonek, Ryan Boyle, and Tyler Wiegers. (You could count AJ Derby, I guess, but his success was at a different position.)

Of course, for most of these guys, the level they transferred to was lower (sometimes MUCH lower) than what they experienced at Iowa and in the B1G. And that's important to remember. But what I think is also interesting is that pretty much every QB who has transferred away has found success. You would think a few of them would have languished on the bench somewhere. (Though Deuce Hogan may snap this streak.)

I think this lends some support to the notion that while Iowa has had some talented guys playing quarterback, we have not always put them in a position to showcase their skills as well as we could have.

 

[blhawk]

Leistikow had an article recently addressing the same topic. Based on the feedback from qbs the offense is quite demanding of QB's and takes awhile to learn....I think over thinking and being afraid to turn it over are recurring issues with Iowa QB's but by far the biggest issue is lack of mobility and athleticism. When it's there the offense is tough to deal with like with Banks and Beathard.

Kirk has been trying to run Iowa football like an NFL team for 23 years and in some areas its worked out great but not so much on O. Trying to find a qb who is super calm in the pocket with great accuracy and strong arm is just rare in college, especially with his mediocre at best recruiting over the years. The running game is a problem too, clearly.

The really odd thing is Kirk is too stubborn or too dimwitted to think of anything else so the product is what it is. You can accept it, "go root for another team" like so many idiots suggest here, or just be indifferent. I'm trending toward the latter since the first 2 options aren't really options

 

[Frosty7130]

I was hoping that most of those were going to be tongue in cheek additions but I guess not. My bad.

Fair, that's on me I guess.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Will you please list the qbs under Kirk that have been down right dreadful?

Christensen and Petras.

 

[iafan44]

Christensen and Petras.

Agreed. So 2. That's far from a long list.

 

[dadster]

When your offensive scheme allows the defense to defend a much smaller area, you put the QB in a difficult situation before the ball even gets snapped. Add a poor running game, constantly throwing one to three yard passes and rarely throwing the ball down the field (especially for a completion) and there you have the Iowa offense. Oh, and never throw a "risky" pass since you might get intercepted. Just eat the ball, take the sack and let our stellar D do their thing. Yawn. Wince. Yawn.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Agreed. So 2. That's far from a long list.

You got me.

Although I would argue the other quarterbacks I listed (and others who didn’t make the list but saw the field) would qualify in some people’s eyes.

Again, the point of this whole thread was not to rag on any particular quarterback but consider if other factors (e.g. the system or development) could explain the struggles beyond the circular-reasoning narrative that “so-and-so just suck.”

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Iowa’s offense is not too complicated. It’s too damn basic. It lacks imagination. There is no disguise to it. Everyone knows what’s coming by our personnel and formations. When you add in our mediocre athletes it’s what it is, a disaster by any measure.

You've nailed the core problem. We've often been told how difficult it is for a QB to learn IOWA's offense. How can an offense so predictable and inept be difficult to learn?

Could it be more clear that there's a fundamental problem with KFz's approach to offense? ...and by extension, the coaching and utilization of Quarterbacks.

 

[BBHawk]

Jake the snake, jason Manson...those are two who started and played pretty dreadful. John wienke was an elite 11 QB who punted for Iowa. I don't think that qualifies as dreadful but I find it funny. Marvin mcnutt and djk were so bad at QB that they moved to wr. Chad Greenway had to move to the other side of the ball altogether. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

Neither DJK nor Greenway were recruited to play QB. Hell, why didn't you also include Scherff, too? He played QB in HS.

 

[DodgerHawki]

First, it didn't go downhill for Vandenberg until Davis got here. He was great his Junior year.
Second, Rudock was good at Iowa but Beathard was just better because of his arm.
I thought Stanley was a good college QB just not great but his biggest weakness was a problem. His accuracy needed to be better but that is Iowa's fault for recruiting a kid that barely passed in HS and never was very accurate. I

Third yes the Iowa offense is not QB friendly and Iowa usually lacks great skill guys and when they do they usually fail to take advantage of them the way other offenses do.

I don't think there has been a lot of dreadful QBs at Iowa. I would say Jake C and Spencer P are by far the worst starters. Most at least got a look by the NFL. That to me shows Iowa's offense is the issue. Also have been really bad at running the ball for too many years when that is supposed to be what the offense is built around.

Would agree with almost all of this. The offense has been anywhere from average to really good when Iowa has had a QB who could run a bit and/or make something out of nothing, or at least escape the pocket and make a good/big throw.

Banks
Tate
Stanzi
Beathard

And some other QB's who were decent and the results on the field were pretty good (Stanley, Rudock).

Running Iowa's offense, if you don't have a QB who can move/make plays with his feet, as a thrower they have to be extremely accurate. And that has not been the case. The non-running QB has to put the ball on the right side of the receiver darn near every time, where they can make a play once they catch it. They are going to need to be able to put the ball right on a guy when he's tightly covered on 3rd and 7.

 

[BurgHawk87]

Neither DJK nor Greenway were recruited to play QB. Hell, why didn't you also include Scherff, too? He played QB in HS.

It was a joke after the first two. But now that you mention it, and another poster...QB competition should be crazy competitive considering probably half of Iowa's roster consists of former QBs.

 

[kceasthawk]

Leistikow had an article recently addressing the same topic. Based on the feedback from qbs the offense is quite demanding of QB's and takes awhile to learn....I think over thinking and being afraid to turn it over are recurring issues with Iowa QB's but by far the biggest issue is lack of mobility and athleticism. When it's there the offense is tough to deal with like with Banks and Beathard.

Kirk has been trying to run Iowa football like an NFL team for 23 years and in some areas its worked out great but not so much on O. Trying to find a qb who is super calm in the pocket with great accuracy and strong arm is just rare in college, especially with his mediocre at best recruiting over the years. The running game is a problem too, clearly.

The really odd thing is Kirk is too stubborn or too dimwitted to think of anything else so the product is what it is. You can accept it, "go root for another team" like so many idiots suggest here, or just be indifferent. I'm trending toward the latter since the first 2 options aren't really options

Right. People who disagree with your sour opinion are "idiots". Just like the guy who's been BIG coach of the year 4 times, (as much as ANY BIG coach ever), and National coach of the year twice, and top five all time in BIG wins, BUT you think he's a "dimwit", and doesn't know shit about winning football games, right? For whatever warts he has, (and yes there are some), just like any other coach, he's done pretty damn well and has represented the Uof I well for over 2 decades. You don't know jack about what it takes to recruit at Iowa either, but do keep coming up with more takes that clearly show your clueless and not a fan of the program....

 

[sober_teacher]

First, it didn't go downhill for Vandenberg until Davis got here. He was great his Junior year.
Second, Rudock was good at Iowa but Beathard was just better because of his arm.
I thought Stanley was a good college QB just not great but his biggest weakness was a problem. His accuracy needed to be better but that is Iowa's fault for recruiting a kid that barely passed in HS and never was very accurate. I

Third yes the Iowa offense is not QB friendly and Iowa usually lacks great skill guys and when they do they usually fail to take advantage of them the way other offenses do.

I don't think there has been a lot of dreadful QBs at Iowa. I would say Jake C and Spencer P are by far the worst starters. Most at least got a look by the NFL. That to me shows Iowa's offense is the issue. Also have been really bad at running the ball for too many years when that is supposed to be what the offense is built around.

In fairness to Greg Davis that year, the offensive line in particular was devastated by injuries. People forget we actually were 4-2 entering the PSU game, and lost 2 starters on the line in one series and I don’t know that they ever recovered from that. that was also the beginning of AIRBHG if I remember right, or in progress, and recruiting had gone downhill a bit. So it wasn’t entirely his fault, though he obviously didn’t help.

I always feel like there’s a portion of the fan base who look at other schools, see offenses light it up and just expect it to be easy to do. Obviously system plays a big role, but the best comparison for us should probably be Wisconsin. Well, outside of the Russell Wilson year, I’d argue that we’ve had better quarterbacks than they have for the past decade…the difference, imo, has been the RB position. That Russell Wilson year is really an outlier, it forgets that Wilson was an experienced qb from NC State, having started for 3 years, they had two NFL running backs, the usual studs on the line, and even the receivers had stints in the NFL I believe.

bottom line, I think we’ve had better qb play than most want to admit. Not he same as saying they’ve been great, but generally solid.

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

Would agree with almost all of this. The offense has been anywhere from average to really good when Iowa has had a QB who could run a bit and/or make something out of nothing, or at least escape the pocket and make a good/big throw.

Banks
Tate
Stanzi
Beathard

And some other QB's who were decent and the results on the field were pretty good (Stanley, Rudock).

Running Iowa's offense, if you don't have a QB who can move/make plays with his feet, as a thrower they have to be extremely accurate. And that has not been the case. The non-running QB has to put the ball on the right side of the receiver darn near every time, where they can make a play once they catch it. They are going to need to be able to put the ball right on a guy when he's tightly covered on 3rd and 7.

This is pretty much my exact thoughts. Iowa qbs that are somewhat mobile do so much better. I can’t stand the statue qbs and even though Petras isn’t even close to what Stanley was, I feel like we’ve had the same qb for the last 7 years now.
even the slightest ability to get out of the pocket and pick up a first down changes the offense. A qb that hasn’t been mentioned yet would be Nathan chandler, he wasn’t that great of a qb and not the quickest but he was still able to get out of the pocket and make some plays with his feet and large frame.
petras can’t move and doesn’t have pocket presence so a lot of 3 and outs happen

 

[BBHawk]

It was a joke after the first two. But now that you mention it, and another poster...QB competition should be crazy competitive considering probably half of Iowa's roster consists of former QBs.

Sorry, I actually thought you might be joking. In any case, I an sure that Scherff would not want to be forgotten on that list!

 

[Herky T Hawk]

In fairness to Greg Davis that year, the offensive line in particular was devastated by injuries. People forget we actually were 4-2 entering the PSU game, and lost 2 starters on the line in one series and I don’t know that they ever recovered from that. that was also the beginning of AIRBHG if I remember right, or in progress, and recruiting had gone downhill a bit. So it wasn’t entirely his fault, though he obviously didn’t help.

I always feel like there’s a portion of the fan base who look at other schools, see offenses light it up and just expect it to be easy to do. Obviously system plays a big role, but the best comparison for us should probably be Wisconsin. Well, outside of the Russell Wilson year, I’d argue that we’ve had better quarterbacks than they have for the past decade…the difference, imo, has been the RB position. That Russell Wilson year is really an outlier, it forgets that Wilson was an experienced qb from NC State, having started for 3 years, they had two NFL running backs, the usual studs on the line, and even the receivers had stints in the NFL I believe.

bottom line, I think we’ve had better qb play than most want to admit. Not he same as saying they’ve been great, but generally solid.

He who shall not be named first showed up in 2003 when Jermelle Lewis tore his ACL in spring practice and then another ACL injury in 2004 with a string of other injuries that led to Sam Brownlee being our leading rusher. Some could also argue that Ladell Betts having to sit out the only bowl game of his career in 2001 was the first sign. Both of those events were long before GDGD won a title at Texas, let alone showed up in Iowa City. This is all we shall say of the matter lest we awake him with our conversation.

 

[Pat McGroyne]

Iowa’s offense is not too complicated. It’s too damn basic. It lacks imagination. There is no disguise to it. Everyone knows what’s coming by our personnel and formations. When you add in our mediocre athletes it’s what it is, a disaster by any measure.

Yet it somehow still takes a year and a half to learn.

 

[michael.nelson311]

Jake the snake, jason Manson...those are two who started and played pretty dreadful. John wienke was an elite 11 QB who punted for Iowa. I don't think that qualifies as dreadful but I find it funny. Marvin mcnutt and djk were so bad at QB that they moved to wr. Chad Greenway had to move to the other side of the ball altogether. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic

Djk and Greenway were recruited to play other positions. Hyde was also a HS QB, so yah not sure

 

[HawkInArk]

I guess I just don’t understand why our quarterbacks complete passes at such a low percentage.

There were 50(!) quarterbacks at 63% + in 2021 and 50 quarterbacks above 62% in 2020.

Beathard was our last guy to eclipse 60%.

God forbid we have a top 50 QB in Iowa City. Baffles me.

 

[jo12208]

Jake the snake, jason Manson...those are two who started and played pretty dreadful. John wienke was an elite 11 QB who punted for Iowa. I don't think that qualifies as dreadful but I find it funny. Marvin mcnutt and djk were so bad at QB that they moved to wr. Chad Greenway had to move to the other side of the ball altogether. Those are just the ones off the top of my head.

You didn't really understand the question.

 

[pocha444444]

Leistikow had an article recently addressing the same topic. Based on the feedback from qbs the offense is quite demanding of QB's and takes awhile to learn....I think over thinking and being afraid to turn it over are recurring issues with Iowa QB's but by far the biggest issue is lack of mobility and athleticism. When it's there the offense is tough to deal with like with Banks and Beathard.

Kirk has been trying to run Iowa football like an NFL team for 23 years and in some areas its worked out great but not so much on O. Trying to find a qb who is super calm in the pocket with great accuracy and strong arm is just rare in college, especially with his mediocre at best recruiting over the years. The running game is a problem too, clearly.

The really odd thing is Kirk is too stubborn or too dimwitted to think of anything else so the product is what it is. You can accept it, "go root for another team" like so many idiots suggest here, or just be indifferent. I'm trending toward the latter since the first 2 options aren't really options

This. All of our best QBs (Banks/Tate/Beathard) have been mobile, yet Kirk continues to recruit statues like Petras and Stanley. Our offense has a lot of issues, but adding a mobile QB could solve a lot of them. A lot of our plays are slow developing, meaning lineman having to hold their blocks longer, and trouble for QBs who don't know how to buy time in or out of the pocket. Combine that with the fact that we usually don't have a quick strike offense. Instead we usually need many successful plays in a row to have a scoring drive. One sack and the drive is pretty much over.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

While not agreeing with the original poster entirely-the point that the Iowa QB position has become too complex is valid. Also, it has become far too dependent on the lower completion rate routes, deep shots. Still throw a lot to TEs but it appears to my unanalytical mind that we throw deep on a lot of 3 and 5 type situations. Not high percentage throws.

I opine that part of the offensive problems has been giving the QB too many options and too much to do at the line. Simplify that complexity to a smaller number of options.

How many of the Iowa QB transfers went on to do anything comparable to starting at Iowa and succeeding better than the Iowa starter at the time? I think Shimonek had one good season at during a Texas Tech down year playing in a like 70/30 pass/run ratio.

The current problems is a couple of off seasons recruiting at QB. Nate Stanley was a good QB, not a great QB but provided good quality play, made a ton of big plays and finished first or second in every Iowa career passing yards. Indeed, since the Bear Hunter's injury plagued senior year Iowa has has enjoyed good quarterbacking. Not necessarily great but good enough to steadily quarterback a run of winning season and bowl winning seasons. The three QBs before Spencer got NFL money-and there aren't that many QBs that do, and it means they had quality collegiate careers, which makes the generally inadequate play of Spence and Alex so noticeable.​

 

[SDHawkDoc]

An offense that's complex to learn yet apparently relatively easy to defend. Not a successful starting point.
Then you have statue qbs who appear to not have any ability to go off script which leads to them not being able to make anything happen with the play breaks down, which it frequently does.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Kirk hasn't had a lot of dreadful QB's but a good college qb should be hitting 60% of his passes and over 7 yards per attempt. That would normally put you in the top 75 FBS QB's or so for completion percentage. Iowa quarterbacks over the last 20 years have failed more often than not to hit those marks and no one other than Drew Tate and Jake Rudock has done it for their careers. As far as dreadful goes, Jake Christensen was under 55% and 6.3 YPA for his career. I'd call that pretty dreadful. This year was also pretty dreadful at 55% and 6.2 YPA. I think it's safe to say that Iowa's QB play under Kirk has been fairly pedestrian overall. Not horrible. Not very good.

Iowa benched a guy who hit those marks for a guy who didn’t. The guy who hit those marks is vilified, the one who didn’t is revered

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Iowa benched a guy who hit those marks for a guy who didn’t. The guy who hit those marks is vilified, the one who didn’t is revered

Are talking about the Rudock/Beathard rivalry season? Rudock's numbers were noticeably better than CJ's.

 

[BurgHawk87]

You didn't really understand the question.

I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic

Djk and Greenway were recruited to play other positions. Hyde was also a HS QB, so yah not sure

For the third and fourth time respectively, after the first two responses it was a joke. But thanks for letting me know.

 

[isuisshit]

Will you please list the qbs under Kirk that have been down right dreadful?

joke christainsen and petras are Fs...........as is vandenberg's senior year when greg davis took over. Those 3 were by far the weakst links on their team. Stanley and rudock aren't much better. How many more do you want? For most schools a guy like nathan chandler or kyle mccann would make these lists but for iowa they're not even considered.