Murin is a great example of a mid-tier recruit (#44?) who occupied a starting spot in the lineup for 4 years only to score a handful of career NCAA points. If that was the strategy all along, then it was a failure at basic math. It would be a success story had he started only one year and was backing up a high AA or champ the other three.
Questions for Willie The Brain
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Max is a perfect example, imo. He should have been backing up a hammer for most of his career and stepping up when needed. But we tend to really like our guys and seem to keep people in the line up more for that than their ability on the mat.
I'd like to see that list of true freshman finalists as well. Cael tends to redshirt most of his guys. Nico, Levi, and Mark Hall are the only ones I can think of off-hand that made the finals as true-freshman.
and can't think of any others in recent times. He tends to redshirt and have them be a monster as a RSFR.
Other notable true freshman starters at PSU under Cael:
Kasak (3rd)
RBY (8th)
Retherford (5th)
Nick Lee (5th)
Brooks (Covid 3rd seed)
Davis (1 Seed; R12)
Suriano (injury)
McIntosh
A Alton (R12)
Bartlett (Covid free year)
Howard (Covid free year; R16)
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Yes, but the discussion was true freshman in the finals. Many other good ones, but they weren't in the finals. A. Alton was probably the best ever that didn't place. Were his shoulder's blow out during freshman year.
Wait, don't answer as this is way off-topic.
That's enough talk about Penn State. Back to Willie talking about IOWA on the IOWA board.
^^^^^ And this is why I think what Willie says about recuiting is golden. Spot on!
@smalls103 How do you think Otto Black and Bowling transition at Iowa with the Greco heavy style they have? Do they end up staying at HWC and competing Greco out of there?
Considering how many wrestlers there are below 30, that’s a very small percentage of finalists over 30. Long story short, yes getting the best kids matters, a lot.
Interesting take from Ben Askren considering if you go to his club’s web site, they boast that they have
Iowa’s problem has been lack of space…tough to get 40+ guys (not including the HWC dudes in the off season) on the mat when your room can really hold 3 useable mats with a couple of support columns taking up space. That, plus it being a dual use facility for the women also drew donors to it. Also, I imagine that they can move their camps back to Carver with it. Before, they had to roll out mats in the arena itself. Then, they moved it to the XStream Arena in Coralville cause I'm guessing there were scheduling conflicts with the arena.
IMO, anything Iowa does is going to draw attention; some will say it’s huge for the program and others will seek to minimize it. I wonder which camp Ben is in.
"A safe and challenging environment within a state-of-the-art facility"
It's big and bold and the second line in their "About" section.Iowa’s problem has been lack of space…tough to get 40+ guys (not including the HWC dudes in the off season) on the mat when your room can really hold 3 useable mats with a couple of support columns taking up space. That, plus it being a dual use facility for the women also drew donors to it. Also, I imagine that they can move their camps back to Carver with it. Before, they had to roll out mats in the arena itself. Then, they moved it to the XStream Arena in Coralville cause I'm guessing there were scheduling conflicts with the arena.
IMO, anything Iowa does is going to draw attention; some will say it’s huge for the program and others will seek to minimize it. I wonder which camp Ben is in.
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i'm ok with the crazies. if someone i never met calls me a p.o.s. on a message board i take it for what it is.
it comes in waves. any time i give an honest assessment that is unflattering to a certain fan base then i'm 'biased'.
but the fact of the matter is i love all the programs and all the kids, including iowa. the narrative that i say stuff to make iowa look bad is silly. and, eventually, goes away.
so your theory is that the staff isn't recruiting the top guys? i don't think that's true. and if it were true, it would be bizarre.
iowa had #34-Happel and #44-Murin compete for 141 and ended up with 1 AA between them (although murin's value (regular season) was much larger than that).
#34 + #44 is not a bad situation for one weight.
i'm completely aware of what he's getting at. frankly, it's 90% of the posts on here for the last 7 years.
what i'm saying is it's a 'no duh' perspective. everyone wants to recruit the top prospects.
i'm not sure I understand you guys. you think TNT don't know this?
it sounds like what you're saying is they need to LAND more, identify the right ones better, or develop them better, because they are certainly targeting their preferred top prospects.
if you're going to talk about FR year success and attribute it solely to recruiting, i think you're fooling yourself.
this board tends to assert that it's recruiting and nothing thereafter. i get it, it's easier do digest that way. but it's not accurate.
it's a combination of recruiting and development and preparation.
Tyler Kasak was 3rd as a TFr. this year and scored 19pts. 2 pts more than Gable Steveson scored his TFr. year.
Note: Tyler Kasak was not as good at wrestling as a HS Senior than Gable Steveson.
Levi Haines was 2nd as a TFR. and scored 18pts. 1 pt more than Gable Steveson's TFr. year and tied with Keegan O'Toole's RFr. year.
Note: Levi Haines was not as good at wrestling as a HS Senior than Gable or O'Toole.
Shane Van Ness was 3rd as a RS-Fr. and scored 15.5pts less than a year after being teched twice in the same day to hs'ers.
Zain Retherford was in a dog fight OT match with a kid named Joey Galasso in Dec. of his senior year. Zain won a couple close decisions at Ironman that season. less than a calendar year later, as a TFr. he beat Logan Stieber who was going for his third title.
at some point you have to come around and allow yourself to understand that penn state is clearly developing guys as well as recruiting them.
i basically did a whole show on it a couple months ago. and now i'm running dangerously close to angering the mob lol.
so instead of typing it out i'll just refer you to that. https://rokfin.com/post/167679/Whats-Wrong-With-Iowa
Willie, I don't disagree with your points in this post, and I'd love to drill down by asking this question of you. In your opinion and when it comes to development, how much is coming from the PSU room, the NLWC, or local clubs? They all seem intertwined so maybe the answer is impossible to say, but skill development appears to be a combo of all three. When the NLWC was young, and when M2 didn't exist, Zain was the exception. Not so much now. What is your honest assessment on the value of an RTC on development to a team? We all know there is value to one, but what is your sense on this subject?
DT seems to think RTCs are a big program booster, as it's reported that he received a $10M endowment to build a better one at OSU at his request.
YES!!!!! (sorry, had an Ironbird moment). The question is whether they can/will, and how soon. The natives are restless.
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i would imagine that there's a big class on the horizon for Iowa in '26 and/or '27
they have no money on the books to Kueter and Nate Jesuroga opened a full.
Spencer, Eierman, Real, The Bull, Cass, Warner, Assad et al....all off now.
so they should have both money and need.
that being said, i don't know who is on what money. i've heard some really headscratching things (zero offered to Chittum or Estrada) and a several ho-hum guys on big money.
maybe they're saving a boatload for the ferrari's.
or maybe it's a lot of hearsay.
whatever the case, they should have gotten more in '24, and way more in '25.
you're probably looking at two back to back unranked classes.
i'm not entirely sure where all the money is tied up.
so on one hand they're due for one or two big classes. if they don't get them idk what the hell is going on other than perhaps the things i cited on that episode have more gravity than even i imagined.
they have no money on the books to Kueter and Nate Jesuroga opened a full.
Spencer, Eierman, Real, The Bull, Cass, Warner, Assad et al....all off now.
so they should have both money and need.
that being said, i don't know who is on what money. i've heard some really headscratching things (zero offered to Chittum or Estrada) and a several ho-hum guys on big money.
maybe they're saving a boatload for the ferrari's.
or maybe it's a lot of hearsay.
whatever the case, they should have gotten more in '24, and way more in '25.
you're probably looking at two back to back unranked classes.
i'm not entirely sure where all the money is tied up.
so on one hand they're due for one or two big classes. if they don't get them idk what the hell is going on other than perhaps the things i cited on that episode have more gravity than even i imagined.
They're not doing well... because Tom has unlimited scholarships right now.
that entire senior class was off the "books" - Warner, Spencer, Eierman, Real, Bull, Cass, Brands - all were on NIL deals that covered tuition (and more).
Takes me to Rokfin but just a black page. No worries I'll search. Thanks
Nope, my issues with Mr. Smalls are mainly fundamental. He reads and understands much more betterer than most on here!
Willie, I think this is a pretty balanced assessment. Spencer making the Olympic team is a step in the right direction. Getting Olympic gold would be another. What would your top priority be to change the “perception” of the program?
Only 2 of those had NIL deals (i.e. outside of HWC) that would cover tuition.
the right fit is Iowa and its a no brainer. If Iowa brought in a RC like Smalls who could steer more top recruits and point out more DITR to the staff, along with adding one Asst. that can bring some excitement I think Iowa would be right back in this thing.
I agree with you on this. If Iowa did ever hire a recruiting director Willie would be at the top of my wish list to get. He he is good at what he does, like him or not. What would stop a team from having him scout the talent and sending an assistant coach to recruit them and try to close the deal? That would be legal I would think?
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Again, I don't think many of you know the rules regarding an RC. He is to have no direct contact with recruits. Only the coaches can do so. As such, what a RC truly would be is a glorified "stalker". Now, that doesn't mean one couldn't be very useful, but it would drastically change the way Willie has made his relationships with so many at that age.
Look, what an RC would be doing, if following the rules and doing what can be done best, is finding out as much info about these kids as possible. Likes, dislikes. Overall personality. Their approach to training. Their approach to education. How long they have been wrestling. How long they have taken it seriously.
So, basically, after all the "stalking" is over. He would essentially be DI Wrestling's version of Mel Keiper. Rank these kids by as many factors as humanly possible and provide the staff with the best info to know how to recruit these kids and which ones to put the most focus on based on their personality and wrestling ability...
yes, you don't see a benefit in that?? You just described how recruiting works. I think that would be a big benefit. Brining in an exciting asst coach is a must also though.
I didn't say there wouldn't be a benefit. But, no, you specifically said "steer". That is one thing he would have no part of, nor would he be able to create, let alone maintain direct relationships with these kids.
So, essentially, a lot of what has made Willie so good at the high school level are things he wouldn't be able to do any more as a RC. Now, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be good at it. He has done so much at that level, that I am sure he would still be able to get enough info through the proper channels to be very efficient. I was just simply pointing out that he would essentially lose any influence he ever had over the kids themselves...
not sure what it is you think i do, but influencing kids where to to to college isn't one of them.
i've never once done that nor has any wrestler or parent really put me in a position to have that much persuasion. to be clear, i get asked my thoughts on different programs from parents all the time and my response is always 1) tailored to the fit of the kid and programs they are looking at and 2) impartial.
if you think my benefit to a program as recruiting coordinator would be 'the pitch' or the landing of them, that's totally not what the role would be nor in my wheel house.
i've never once done that nor has any wrestler or parent really put me in a position to have that much persuasion. to be clear, i get asked my thoughts on different programs from parents all the time and my response is always 1) tailored to the fit of the kid and programs they are looking at and 2) impartial.
if you think my benefit to a program as recruiting coordinator would be 'the pitch' or the landing of them, that's totally not what the role would be nor in my wheel house.
that's not entirely true. and it's not the way it HAS to be.
you can designate who on the staff (up to 3 (or it may have changed to 4)) can talk to PSA's.
and I'd say 95% of learning more about individual recruits is talking to their parents and coaches rather than the athletes themselves.
idk if 'stalking' is the word i'd use lol, but the kiper thing is a fair comparison.
there's only been two real Recruiting Coordinators in the country - Anthony Ralph and Tyler Caldwell and both have crushed it.
college coaches should focus on development and the needs of their athletes, not spend their time being a research laden computer geek, which, in addition to talking to parents and coaches, is essentially what I do.
the role of a DI Wrestling Recruiting Director should be to do all the leg work and to present - in this case to TNT - your best recommendations and have them land them.
a few of you guys mentioned that you need to land not just Top 20's, but the right Top 20's and you're damn right. There are plenty of 'elite recruits' that i wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole. having a RC helps with this as well.
