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RealClear Politics: Trump Didn't Call Neo-Nazis 'Fine People.' Here's Proof.

I’m not trying to change what the rally was or wasn’t, I’m speaking STRICTLY about Trump’s remarks, which were pretty clear, coming from someone that goes off on otherwise unintelligible streams of consciousness.

And no, I wouldn’t march with that crowd. Have I given any indication that I would?
I still cannot believe biden would "run " on this as an issue. no matter what the rally was or was not, it's not something to dwell upon that's for sure. it's certainly not something you base your campaign on. either side, all sides. there were idiots. there were deaths. it was not good.
 
Yes, Trump made fun of a disabled reporter, he didn't make fun of a reporter's disability. See the difference?

I can't believe you guys are making me defend that clown.

Just stop. You supposedly trash Fox for being sensationalized propaganda BS, yet you provide proof of your claims from a Fox news propaganda video.

I don't think you'll be taken seriously from here on. At least not by me.
 
Do a little research. He did the EXACT same gesture several times during the primaries when making fun of Ted Cruz and others. Not saying it's acceptable...he's still a bully and a clown, but it's not a specific reference to the journalist.

I remember seeing that too. He often used those hand gestures when mocking someone, which is stereotypically aimed at handicapped people. What's interesting is the time he was most exaggerated and demonstrative about the gestures was when imitating someone who is actually handicapped.

As I said in another thread, the problem with trying to determine Trump's intended meaning is that the statements and acts have just enough ambiguity to them that intelligibility does not exist. Therefore, it's impossible to ascertain for sure whether Trump is just that clever or actually that stupid.

One thing is for certain. The Trumptwit dick riders will always believe it's only the liberals who are being duped.
 
Just stop. You supposedly trash Fox for being sensationalized propaganda BS, yet you provide proof of your claims from a Fox news propaganda video.

I don't think you'll be taken seriously from here on. At least not by me.
Does it really matter who takes video snippets? It's not like I posted some "news" commentary. Hell, I remember watching it when it happened (having no idea who the journalist was either) simply thinking, "Trump...acting like a jackass as usual". It never crossed my mind he was making fun of someone's disability.

If CNN compiled the clips would it make a difference? It shouldn't. ...you guys are literally missing the forest through the trees.
 
Why would you not march with that crowd? According to Trump, some "very fine people" did. You keep saying his remarks were misinterpreted. He claimed some "very fine people" marched with that group that you just refused to march with.
I’m not likely to be seen marching with ANY crowd, and I think that’s true of the vast majority of posters here.

Conserving confederate monuments isn’t of great priority to me. Though I can completely understand why Southerners are passionate about it.
 
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I remember seeing that too. He often used those hand gestures when mocking someone, which is stereotypically aimed at handicapped people. What's interesting is the time he was most exaggerated and demonstrative about the gestures was when imitating someone who is actually handicapped.

As I said in another thread, the problem with trying to determine Trump's intended meaning is that the statements and acts have just enough ambiguity to them that intelligibility does not exist. Therefore, it's impossible to ascertain for sure whether Trump is just that clever or actually that stupid.

One thing is for certain. The Trumptwit dick riders will always believe it's only the liberals who are being duped.
as a trump fan I can admit I wasn't exactly thrilled with his hand gestures that time. that's about the only time. the rest of the time I think he's funny and entertaining. I don't really think he was making fun of that certain person but maybe wildly gesturing and making fun of idiots in general, but then, if it could be taken as making fun of a disabled person then that one time maybe he shouldn't have done it. as far as the good people on both sides goes, well, he's right. there are good people and bad people on both sides of the political fight. that's what he meant.
 
I remember seeing that too. He often used those hand gestures when mocking someone, which is stereotypically aimed at handicapped people. What's interesting is the time he was most exaggerated and demonstrative about the gestures was when imitating someone who is actually handicapped.

As I said in another thread, the problem with trying to determine Trump's intended meaning is that the statements and acts have just enough ambiguity to them that intelligibility does not exist. Therefore, it's impossible to ascertain for sure whether Trump is just that clever or actually that stupid.

One thing is for certain. The Trumptwit dick riders will always believe it's only the liberals who are being duped.
I can get on board with this post...who frack'n really knows and that further illustrates my point...left leaning media will impose their intent on his actions and the right will do the same. Who knows what's rambling around in Trump's head.
 
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I’m not likely to be seen marching with ANY crowd, and I think that’s true of the vast majority of posters here.

Conserving confederate monuments isn’t of great priority to me. Though I can completely understand why Southerners are passionate about it.
heck... nobody was gonna march with any crowd, until a crowd got invented for TV.
 
Why would you not march with that crowd? According to Trump, some "very fine people" did. You keep saying his remarks were misinterpreted. He claimed some "very fine people" marched with that group that you just refused to march with.
why wouldn't you march with Antifa who ultimately is no better or worse than any other crowd? why march with crowds? you might get hit by a car driven by an idiot. unfortunately. that was terrible.
 
I’m not likely to be seen marching with ANY crowd, and I think that’s true of the vast majority of posters here.

Conserving confederate monuments isn’t of great priority to me. Though I can completely understand why Southerners are passionate about it.
Nice dodge. So let's go at it from the other point you dodged - would you expect to find "very fine people" in that crowd of Nazi/KKK/anti-semitic white supremacists? Trump thinks you will. And I'm not asking you if you can come up with some scenario where it might happen...if you saw that crowd marching, would you think, "There are some very fine people in that crowd"?
 
I can get on board with this post...who frack'n really knows and that further illustrates my point...left leaning media will impose their intent on his actions and the right will do the same. Who knows what's rambling around in Trump's head.
Here's a key point:

“Now, the poor guy, you’ve got to see this guy: ‘Uhh, I don’t know what I said. Uhh, I don’t remember,’ he’s going like ‘I don’t remember. Maybe that’s what I said'”

Then, he lied about knowing someone who had interviewed him personally more than a dozen times over the years. A man he called by his first name prior to mocking him. Regardless of whether Trump does this at other times, he KNOWS Serge Kovaleski, KNOWS he's disabled, and chose to do what he did then lie about it.
 
Does it really matter who takes video snippets? It's not like I posted some "news" commentary. Hell, I remember watching it when it happened (having no idea who the journalist was either) simply thinking, "Trump...acting like a jackass as usual". It never crossed my mind he was making fun of someone's disability.

If CNN compiled the clips would it make a difference? It shouldn't. ...you guys are literally missing the forest through the trees.

It will be interesting when Trump is caught on tape calling a mentally handicapped person a retard and his defenders will provide evidence of him calling non-mentally handicapped people retards as proof he didn't mean anything bad by it.
 
It will be interesting when Trump is caught on tape calling a mentally handicapped person a retard and his defenders will provide evidence of him calling non-mentally handicapped people retards as proof he didn't mean anything bad by it.
if he did it I would denounce it
 
If you watched the actual press conference, which I did at the time, it was clear he was talking about people that were there to peacefully protest the removal of the monument.
This isn't about defending or attacking Trump, it's about the truth of what was actually said and that should matter to everyone. Go back and watch the entire unedited video with an open mind.

Do we know for sure there were peaceful protesters there about a monument? I've seen fliers for the event and they didn't mention the monument and clearly identified white nationalist speakers.
 
I still cannot believe biden would "run " on this as an issue. no matter what the rally was or was not, it's not something to dwell upon that's for sure. it's certainly not something you base your campaign on. either side, all sides. there were idiots. there were deaths. it was not good.

OiT, for once I agree with you. Democrats did well in 2018 because their candidates made a point of running against Trump's policies, not Trump himself, which is an important distinction.

If Biden, or anyone else in the democratic field chooses to make the campaign solely about Trump...it gives him an even better chance to win again (already has a good chance with the incumbency advantage). It would be the same mistake that Hillary ultimately made, when she made an extremely good case about why people shouldn't vote for Trump, but not why they should vote for her.

Trump did the same thing, just better.
 
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Do we know for sure there were peaceful protesters there about a monument? I've seen fliers for the event and they didn't mention the monument and clearly identified white nationalist speakers.
this is how hoaxes get started, with fliers , making sure it's in writing for all to see
 
OiT, for once I agree with you. Democrats did well in 2018 because their candidates made a point of running against Trump's policies, not Trump himself, which is an important distinction.

If Biden, or anyone else in the democratic field chooses to make the campaign solely about Trump...it gives him an even better chance to win again (already has a good chance with the incumbency advantage). It would be the same mistake that Hillary ultimately made, when she made an extremely good case about why people shouldn't vote for Trump, but not why they should vote for her.

Trump did the same thing, just better.
I agree and I wasn't even talking about biden making it about trump because I don't equate Charlottesville with trump at all, but I know what you mean because he clearly is trying to make Charlottesville about trump. but I meant I wouldn't bring this event up at all, trump equivalencies or not. but yes he should talk about issues. and not an event. trump will have a lot of good economic things and stuff to talk about. I just don't think that was something to put in a campaign kick off video.
 
Do we know for sure there were peaceful protesters there about a monument? I've seen fliers for the event and they didn't mention the monument and clearly identified white nationalist speakers.
There were reports there were and they bailed when the whackos showed up but no, I wasnt there, were you?
 
Nice dodge. So let's go at it from the other point you dodged - would you expect to find "very fine people" in that crowd of Nazi/KKK/anti-semitic white supremacists? Trump thinks you will. And I'm not asking you if you can come up with some scenario where it might happen...if you saw that crowd marching, would you think, "There are some very fine people in that crowd"?
No, I wouldn’t. White supremacists suck balls.
 
There were reports there were and they bailed when the whackos showed up but no, I wasnt there, were you?

No, it's why I asked the question. My understanding is the tiki torch people chanting blood and soil and Jews will not replace us were on Friday. I am not sure that it is correct that there were peaceful protesters there first.
 
Democrats are the conspiracy theory party. Even when there are facts that directly repudiate everything they say. Makes no difference to them. For them, the facts are whatever they want it to be and whatever fits their narrative.
 
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Democrats are the conspiracy theory party. Even when there are facts that directly repudiate everything they say. Makes no difference to them. For them, the facts are whatever they want it to be and whatever fits their narrative.
basically he was saying there are fine people on the democrat side. giving them a compliment. but libs refuse to see it.
 
basically he was saying there are fine people on the democrat side. giving them a compliment. but libs refuse to see it.

It's just common sense. There were people there that were protesting the removal of a statue. There were people also that were protesting to support the removal of the statue. The media has accused these defenseless Americans of all being nazis. The real problem is that the media hates America. Obviously there were nazis on both sides. But it's equally as obvious that there were people on both sides that were just expressing their constitutional right to peacefully protest for whatever side of the issue they were on. These type of simple and obvious things makes no sense to the brain of a liberal. Libs don't understand that the media will lie to them all day if they can find a way to make Trump look bad.
 
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It will be interesting when Trump is caught on tape calling a mentally handicapped person a retard and his defenders will provide evidence of him calling non-mentally handicapped people retards as proof he didn't mean anything bad by it.
It really does amaze me how people literally can't see the forest through the trees.

I THINK TRUMP IS AN ABSOLUTE BUFFOON! However, I do not need the hyper-responsive, biased media to invent (or over-react) to situations in order for me to make that determination. Trump could punch a handicap kid in the face and I would judge him for that action and that action alone...I wouldn't assume that every-time he encounters a handicap kid he's going to punch them.

So, again for those who really struggle with research and grasping simple concepts, Donald Trump has shown through video evidence that he has ZERO class and chooses to imitate a mentally handicap person in an effort to discredit those who he thinks are unintelligent or who stand in opposition to his platform. Prior to the journalist issue, he did it often. It is not excusable, BUT it does not fit the liberal agenda of a person who is intentionally making fun of a man's disability; it simply bit him in the ass because the person he was mocking just so happened to be disabled. The realization of this simple truth is neither liberal or conservative, it just is.

My analysis is simply to show how the media runs their bias story-lines with little to no fact checking and their base just gobbles it up. My stance is in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM in support of Trump's actions. No Presidential Candidate (or Mature Adult), should carry themselves in such a distasteful manner.
 
So Trump was full of shit when he said there were "very fine people" on both sides. Thanks. I agree.

As far as I can tell, the cut and paste below is where the disputed claim about good people on both sides comes from. I have bolded certain parts for emphasis. I have also included a link to the full text of his comments.

Can you, if you fairly take his comments in context, find where he was giving the white supremacists, et al, a pass? I don't think you can, because when it was apparent that he was referring to them as a group, he was condemning them...and he did so multiple times.

You are either purposely, or perhaps unconsciously, misconstruing his words so as to support a criticism or a narrative that suits you. Pick one of the other multitude of things that are legitimate to criticize Trump about...don't make them up to suit yourself.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017...white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane, what I’m saying is this: you had a group on one side and a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch, but there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You’ve just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that's the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

TRUMP: I do think there is blame – yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

REPORTER: George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call ‘em. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final – does anybody have a final question? You have an infrastructure question.
 
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As far as I can tell, the cut and paste below is where the disputed claim about good people on both sides comes from. I have bolded certain parts for emphasis. I have also included a link to the full text of his comments.

Can you, if you fairly take his comments in context, find where he was giving the white supremacists, et al, a pass? I don't think you can, because when it was apparent that he was referring to them as a group, he was condemning them...and he did so multiple times.

You are either purposely, or perhaps unconsciously, misconstruing his words so as to support a criticism or a narrative that suits you. Pick one of the other multitude of things that are legitimate to criticize Trump about...don't make them up to suit yourself.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017...white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane, what I’m saying is this: you had a group on one side and a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch, but there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You’ve just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that's the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

TRUMP: I do think there is blame – yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

REPORTER: George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call ‘em. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final – does anybody have a final question? You have an infrastructure question.

That reporter should be fired for their depth of stupid.
 
As far as I can tell, the cut and paste below is where the disputed claim about good people on both sides comes from. I have bolded certain parts for emphasis. I have also included a link to the full text of his comments.

Can you, if you fairly take his comments in context, find where he was giving the white supremacists, et al, a pass? I don't think you can, because when it was apparent that he was referring to them as a group, he was condemning them...and he did so multiple times.

You are either purposely, or perhaps unconsciously, misconstruing his words so as to support a criticism or a narrative that suits you. Pick one of the other multitude of things that are legitimate to criticize Trump about...don't make them up to suit yourself.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017...white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane, what I’m saying is this: you had a group on one side and a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch, but there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You’ve just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that's the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

TRUMP: I do think there is blame – yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

REPORTER: George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call ‘em. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don't know if you know, but they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final – does anybody have a final question? You have an infrastructure question.
Another fine example...an entire dialog, but the media found their sound bite; "Good people on both sides" and it still makes its way around in retorts, memes, hashtags, etc. I'd venture to say that 90% of those who hate Trump use that out-of-context quote as a reason they hate him and have actually never heard the words (much less the full dialog) leave his mouth.
 
It really does amaze me how people literally can't see the forest through the trees.

I THINK TRUMP IS AN ABSOLUTE BUFFOON! However, I do not need the hyper-responsive, biased media to invent (or over-react) to situations in order for me to make that determination. Trump could punch a handicap kid in the face and I would judge him for that action and that action alone...I wouldn't assume that every-time he encounters a handicap kid he's going to punch them.

So, again for those who really struggle with research and grasping simple concepts, Donald Trump has shown through video evidence that he has ZERO class and chooses to imitate a mentally handicap person in an effort to discredit those who he thinks are unintelligent or who stand in opposition to his platform. Prior to the journalist issue, he did it often. It is not excusable, BUT it does not fit the liberal agenda of a person who is intentionally making fun of a man's disability; it simply bit him in the ass because the person he was mocking just so happened to be disabled. The realization of this simple truth is neither liberal or conservative, it just is.

My analysis is simply to show how the media runs their bias story-lines with little to no fact checking and their base just gobbles it up. My stance is in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM in support of Trump's actions. No Presidential Candidate (or Mature Adult), should carry themselves in such a distasteful manner.

I get what you are saying but a defense that he pretends to be handicapped when insulting others and he didn't know that this particular person actually had a handicap that very closely resembles the insult Trump did isn't enough better for me to care if Trump gets hammered for this. Especially when you add in the comments Trump was making about him were also a complete lie.
 
Can you, if you fairly take his comments in context, find where he was giving the white supremacists, et al, a pass?
Can you find where they were uniting to save a statue? I see "pro-white movement". I see "end Jewish influence". I see symbols evocative of Nazism. I see a list of Nazis, white supremacists, and Klan as speakers. I see "take a stand against antifa". I'll ask you the same question - would YOU march with these people?


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I get what you are saying but a defense that he pretends to be handicapped when insulting others and he didn't know that this particular person actually had a handicap that very closely resembles the insult Trump did isn't enough better for me to care if Trump gets hammered for this. Especially when you add in the comments Trump was making about him were also a complete lie.
I don't care that he gets hammered either. What I care about is journalistic integrity...it's becoming more and more rare. That is the entire premise of my argument. I hate being manipulated. Just report the facts in their entirety and allow the public to make judgement.
 
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