Recruiting

[nitlion6]

I keep reading how close the Hawks were to winning the team title. Two ways to look at it. If Iowa had Jimmy Gulion and Penn State had Brody G. That should have been a 28 point difference.

Another way to look at is the difference between 1st and 2nd in recent years.
2011 Penn State +1 over Iowa
2012 Penn State +15 one Minnesota
2013 Penn State +12 over Minnesota
2014 Penn State +6.5 over Iowa
2015 Iowa and Ohio State tied (120)
2016 Penn State +23.5 over Iowa.

Iowa scored 7 more points this year than last year when they were co-champs and yet finished further behind than any runner-up has over the past 6 seasons.

 

[ih8iast8]

When you say the last two years, do you mean the guys set to come in next year--the 2016 class of Happel/Young/Marinelli and the following year 2017--Meija, Renteria, Troy, or do you mean the classes of Stoll/Gross/Paddock/Ryan in 2014 and the 2015 class of Kemerer/Turk/Holloway? If you are talking about the 2016 and 2017 classes, I agree with you. Outside of Kemerer and Stoll, the 2014 and 2015 classes were very average. Minny is bad this year, but returns 10 starters next year, so it may not be as bad as it seems, but I agree, if that were Iowa this year, we'd be burning down the house. They need to recruit alot more high quality wrestlers and do the creative accounting PSU must do when it comes to scholarships. Have to change up asst coaching as well IMO. Change something. Its a thing of beauty watching those upper weight PSU wrestlers wrestle. Why wouldn't you go there if you wrestled 165/174/184? We need some of that at Iowa. I knwo its easier said than done, but we have to try something.

Two years coming....I wouldn't go wrestle behind Nolf & Nickal just like I wouldn't have wrestled behind Metcalf. We have a similar problem at 125/33....now if we could just get that 41 hole filled!

 

[ih8iast8]

I keep reading how close the Hawks were to winning the team title. Two ways to look at it. If Iowa had Jimmy Gulion and Penn State had Brody G. That should have been a 28 point difference.

Another way to look at is the difference between 1st and 2nd in recent years.
2011 Penn State +1 over Iowa
2012 Penn State +15 one Minnesota
2013 Penn State +12 over Minnesota
2014 Penn State +6.5 over Iowa
2015 Iowa and Ohio State tied (120)
2016 Penn State +23.5 over Iowa.

Iowa scored 7 more points this year than last year when they were co-champs and yet finished further behind than any runner-up has over the past 6 seasons.

we are free to say what we want on our board. If I wanna be a huge douche I'll go split hairs on your board.

 

[broth87]

we are free to say what we want on our board. If I wanna be a huge douche I'll go split hairs on your board.

This!

 

[nitlion6]

we are free to say what we want on our board. If I wanna be a huge douche I'll go split hairs on your board.

Dude. I was just pointing out facts.
You do not need to go to any other boards to accomplish douche. You got it right, right here with no effort.

 

[nitlion6]

This!

Funny thing is. Hell, I am free to write what I think (or know) also.
Ignore me dude. Honest, it will not hurt my feelings.

 

[Tommy Gavin]

Someone needs to take out the trash.

 

[nitlion6]

Someone needs to take out the trash.

They are your home members.

 

[Tommy Gavin]

Find something better to do with your time.

 

[herkcy]

Could you expand a bit more on Brands being the least prepared of top 5 choices?

I didn't delve in to the comment, but a couple things that were mentioned were referring to a napkin with scribbles on it during sit down. Didn't mention what an Iowa education can bring after wrestling is done. Others listed connections/placements at firms related to the recruits desired major that could lead to internships, and/or opportunities.

 

[thom67]

Generally if one posts on the PSU board and says anything contrary to the PSU ideals, one gets banned.

 

[ih8iast8]

Generally if one posts on the PSU board and says anything contrary to the PSU ideals, one gets banned.

You're telling me I have to have a raging Cael-boner to post over there?

 

[nitlion6]

Generally if one posts on the PSU board and says anything contrary to the PSU ideals, one gets banned.

So you have been banned?

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally I came over here to read the Hawk perspective. I posted a couple responses, which of course do not fall in line with the collective group think. Instead of giving some sort of conversational retort - I just get told to get out, called names and top it off with some teeny little piss head dipping into the Sandusky shyt pile.

So if I respond like an azzhole, well just trying to fit in.

A handful of Hawk posters post somewhat regularly on the PSU rival's board. I do not agree with everything they post, but I never shoo anybody away. Well except for some azzhole from the Okie st board that wasn't there to discuss wrestling.

Guess you need that "butthurt machine" real bad that was on one of the other threads. Keep looking you'll find it.

Hope you get some relief.

 

[Azchief32]

NitLion...having a bad day? Plug it up bro.

 

[TailgateTom]

Some of the Penn State fans make it so freaking hard to enjoy the damn fine kids they have in their line up.

Regarding Iowa's chances with Spencer Lee: being snake bitten several times with high profile recruits, I have a hard time seeing him going anywhere but Penn State. However, freestyle is his thing. We have Terry. He has friends and teammates on/on their way to the Iowa roster. I want to believe those factors will be too big of draws for him to pick anyone but Iowa.

 

[ih8iast8]

Impossible, Sammy Brooks told me the Iowa Wrestlers have no fun, so why would Lee come here?

 

[tigerpride_32]

Thought this was interesting.

Number of top 20 recruits since 2011 (2011-2015):
Iowa- 5 Brooks (#20), Gilman (#16), Skonieczny (#15), Stoll (#14), Kemerer (#8), Only one in top 10 is Kemerer

Ohio State- 10 multiple in top ten (B. Jordan, M.Jordan, Snyder, Tamo, Myles Martin)

Oklahoma State- 11, most seem to be in 5-15 range

Penn State- 8, but all of them in top 7, with 6 in top 5
2011: McIntosh #1, Mega #3
2012: Gulibon #3
2013: Retherford #3
2014: Nolf #4, Nevills #5, Nickal #7
2015: Vincezo Joseph #5

Iowa needs to start getting the blue chip recruits if they want to win a National Title. Kemerer and Marinelli are steps in the right direction, but much more work to be done!

 

[nitlion6]

NitLion...having a bad day? Plug it up bro.

Not a bad day at all. Off next two weeks. States this week NCAAS next week.
I just thought I could explain why several nasty responses.
Anywho.
Just a funny about that tampon you carry around.
A kid I wrestled with back in HS always had issues with nose bleeds. While we were wrestling in the PA freestyle states his nose kept bleeding. His brother and I had to go through the stands asking different women if we could have a tampon to stuff up his nose. Nothing quite as interesting as a 15 year old asking 30 something moms for one of their tampons.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Not a bad day at all. Off next two weeks. States this week NCAAS next week.
I just thought I could explain why several nasty responses.
Anywho.
Just a funny about that tampon you carry around.
A kid I wrestled with back in HS always had issues with nose bleeds. While we were wrestling in the PA freestyle states his nose kept bleeding. His brother and I had to go through the stands asking different women if we could have a tampon to stuff up his nose. Nothing quite as interesting as a 15 year old asking 30 something moms for one of their tampons.

So the moral of the story is............if the tampon fits.....???

 

[whejoe]

Not a bad day at all. Off next two weeks. States this week NCAAS next week.
I just thought I could explain why several nasty responses.
Anywho.
Just a funny about that tampon you carry around.
A kid I wrestled with back in HS always had issues with nose bleeds. While we were wrestling in the PA freestyle states his nose kept bleeding. His brother and I had to go through the stands asking different women if we could have a tampon to stuff up his nose. Nothing quite as interesting as a 15 year old asking 30 something moms for one of their tampons.

Lol....were you able to find a tampon in the crowd? I hope you only asked the milfs.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

PSU fan here. Sorry for Lion8286. World is full of them.

JMO, I have 3 boys that wrestle in college. The screaming coaches, foot up you butt days are over. Some kids can perform to that. Most have been doing this for years and don't want the yelling screaming coach. Also, how your wrestler reacts after losing or winning is VERY VERY big part of recruiting. Your HWY foot up the butt and gut them like a pig ( i think it was) turn a lot of wrestlers and their parents off. The way Gilman react and continues to act say a lot the recruits about your coach.
Just giving my opinion. I'm sure I'll get busted.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you claiming that Tom Brands sticks his foot up his wrestlers' rear ends? I can confirm that he's never done that. Are you implying that Tom Brands uses outdated coaching techniques and abuses his wrestlers? If so, I'd absolutely love to see your sources for this rock-solid info.

Are you claiming that Thomas Gilman reacted poorly to his loss? If so, exactly how? Because from where I sat in row 17, section AA, of Carver-Hawkeye Arena, he handled his loss light years better than ol' Nico did. He bounced back and dominated two good opponents, was smiling most of the time, and got the crowd pumped up after both wins. He handled adversity with grace. If that somehow says something negative about his coach, I'd really, really, really love to hear your theory as to how that's so.

 

[Azchief32]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you claiming that Tom Brands sticks his foot up his wrestlers' rear ends? I can confirm that he's never done that. Are you implying that Tom Brands uses outdated coaching techniques and abuses his wrestlers? If so, I'd absolutely love to see your sources for this rock-solid info.

Are you claiming that Thomas Gilman reacted poorly to his loss? If so, exactly how? Because from where I sat in row 17, section AA, of Carver-Hawkeye Arena, he handled his loss light years better than ol' Nico did. He bounced back and dominated two good opponents, was smiling most of the time, and got the crowd pumped up after both wins. He handled adversity with grace. If that somehow says something negative about his coach, I'd really, really, really love to hear your theory as to how that's so.

Think he's anti mushing

 

[nitlion6]

Lol....were you able to find a tampon in the crowd? I hope you only asked the milfs.

Turns out several mom's already knew the trick and as they heard us asking they had them ready for us. Felt tremendously embarrassed and awkward, but made for a great story at school on Monday.

 

[ih8iast8]

Thought this was interesting.

Number of top 20 recruits since 2011 (2011-2015):
Iowa- 5 Brooks (#20), Gilman (#16), Skonieczny (#15), Stoll (#14), Kemerer (#8), Only one in top 10 is Kemerer

Ohio State- 10 multiple in top ten (B. Jordan, M.Jordan, Snyder, Tamo, Myles Martin)

Oklahoma State- 11, most seem to be in 5-15 range

Penn State- 8, but all of them in top 7, with 6 in top 5
2011: McIntosh #1, Mega #3
2012: Gulibon #3
2013: Retherford #3
2014: Nolf #4, Nevills #5, Nickal #7
2015: Vincezo Joseph #5

Iowa needs to start getting the blue chip recruits if they want to win a National Title. Kemerer and Marinelli are steps in the right direction, but much more work to be done!

So you are telling me that Okie State should be slapping everyone around at Nats. But the reality is that in the time frame you have presented, they have not even come close.

Further concerning about your "trend" is that no one on your list from Iowa or PSU has an individual nat champ. I am not saying your wrong I'm saying high school rankings don't mean shit.

 

[nitlion6]

So the moral of the story is............if the tampon fits.....???

More like, fits all.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you claiming that Tom Brands sticks his foot up his wrestlers' rear ends? I can confirm that he's never done that. Are you implying that Tom Brands uses outdated coaching techniques and abuses his wrestlers? If so, I'd absolutely love to see your sources for this rock-solid info.

Are you claiming that Thomas Gilman reacted poorly to his loss? If so, exactly how? Because from where I sat in row 17, section AA, of Carver-Hawkeye Arena, he handled his loss light years better than ol' Nico did. He bounced back and dominated two good opponents, was smiling most of the time, and got the crowd pumped up after both wins. He handled adversity with grace. If that somehow says something negative about his coach, I'd really, really, really love to hear your theory as to how that's so.

That was his 1st post............and he suckered you in to his made up troll post.

You know how they come out this time of the year.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

That was his 1st post............and he suckered you in to his made up troll post.

You know how they come out this time of the year.

Guilty as charged, I guess. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate between a troll job and sheer stupidity. And as you know, there's plenty of that coming from PA this time of year.

 

[tigerpride_32]

So you are telling me that Okie State should be slapping everyone around at Nats. But the reality is that in the time frame you have presented, they have not even come close.

Further concerning about your "trend" is that no one on your list from Iowa or PSU has an individual nat champ. I am not saying your wrong I'm saying high school rankings don't mean shit.

Actually high school rankings matter quite a bit in predicting someones success in college. And I am not saying Okie St should be winning NTs at all, while they have the most in the top 20, Ohio St. and PSU are getting the guys in the top 5 , which is why they've been the only schools to win NTs lately..

 

[Azchief32]

Chief just gonna give you a hard time. Zain R. was only a 2x PIAA. He did have only 1 loss at states though.. He was ruled ineligible to wrestle his junior year because he changed high schools.

Thanks for the assist...forgot about that transfer thing.

 

[oldhawk56]

PSU fan here. Sorry for Lion8286. World is full of them.

JMO, I have 3 boys that wrestle in college. The screaming coaches, foot up you butt days are over. Some kids can perform to that. Most have been doing this for years and don't want the yelling screaming coach. Also, how your wrestler reacts after losing or winning is VERY VERY big part of recruiting. Your HWY foot up the butt and gut them like a pig ( i think it was) turn a lot of wrestlers and their parents off. The way Gilman react and continues to act say a lot the recruits about your coach.
Just giving my opinion. I'm sure I'll get busted.

Gilman is gonna be Gilman, don't judge a team by him.
It's better than driving drunk ... (Taco Bell wasn't it?)

 

[rossel 33]

Tigerpride is right... HS rankings do have some importance.

Look at HS football, with detailed 5 star, 4 star, 3 star etc rankings for players. The premier collegiate programs look at that stuff very closely, because it matters. Basketball too. Why should wrestling be different?

Of course coaching matters too, but to simply ignore the innate talents and proven performance in a HS career and think that one can just "work harder" to make an ncaa champ out of a kid who is slower and less talented with less impressive HS credentials.... well, it may happen, but that is mostly wishful thinking.

 

[Greco Gilligan]

If Iowa wants the bigger recruits, then they need to add in the fun factor. Maybe have Brands talk to the university big wigs and have them change their stance on on-campus coon hunting. I would go as far as bring Zadick back to teach proper hunter safety protocols while coon hunter on campus -- fun, fun fun.

 

[rossel 33]

This has been bandied around alot, but just to look where kids ranked coming out of HS, all weight classes combined, one can see there is a pretty strong correlation to collegiate performance.

Here is a list of guys who were ranked (by decile) p4p in the years 2009-14:

guys who were ranked #1-10:

C Perry
Taylor
Ruth
Dake
Ramos
Steiber
Kindig
McIntosh
Megaludes
A Alton
D Alton
Storley
Tsirtsis
Dance
Cox
Retherford
IMar
B Jordan
Tomasello
Snyder

#11-20

St John
McMullen
D Ness
N Dardanes
Dieringer
Green
Gwiazdowski
Brewer
Brooks
Gilman
Realbuto
Heil

#21-30

Carter
Clark
Sorensen

This list doesn't include everyone, but I tried to list the more famous and more accomplished.
You can see there is talent in each decile (and more still outside the top 30), but it is clear that the top decile has more of the multi AA, multi champ types. The second decile likewise outperformed the #21-30 group.

I'm in the camp that recruiting matters A LOT. Coaching matters a lot too, and I think TNT are the best in the country. They obviously produce AA's, national champs and International FS stars. Where Iowa is falling short is not coaching. PSU has been absolutely killing it in the recruiting battles in past years, when it comes to top decile guys. Iowa has stepped up recently with Marinelli and Mejia, but they need more of that kind of talent. Giving elite guys full rides, selling the Carver experience, etc.... whatever it takes, we need it.

 

[Stanley75]

Some of the Penn State fans make it so freaking hard to enjoy the damn fine kids they have in their line up.

Regarding Iowa's chances with Spencer Lee: being snake bitten several times with high profile recruits, I have a hard time seeing him going anywhere but Penn State. However, freestyle is his thing. We have Terry. He has friends and teammates on/on their way to the Iowa roster. I want to believe those factors will be too big of draws for him to pick anyone but Iowa.

PSU already has a couple of Lees. So it's only logical Spencer Lee goes to Iowa. Am I right?

 

[TarpHawk]

This has been bandied around alot, but just to look where kids ranked coming out of HS, all weight classes combined, one can see there is a pretty strong correlation to collegiate performance.

Here is a list of guys who were ranked (by decile) p4p in the years 2009-14:

guys who were ranked #1-10:

C Perry
Taylor
Ruth
Dake
Ramos
Steiber
Kindig
McIntosh
Megaludes
A Alton
D Alton
Storley
Tsirtsis
Dance
Cox
Retherford
IMar
B Jordan
Tomasello
Snyder

#11-20

St John
McMullen
D Ness
N Dardanes
Dieringer
Green
Gwiazdowski
Brewer
Brooks
Gilman
Realbuto
Heil

#21-30

Carter
Clark
Sorensen

This list doesn't include everyone, but I tried to list the more famous and more accomplished.
You can see there is talent in each decile (and more still outside the top 30), but it is clear that the top decile has more of the multi AA, multi champ types. The second decile likewise outperformed the #21-30 group.

I'm in the camp that recruiting matters A LOT. Coaching matters a lot too, and I think TNT are the best in the country. They obviously produce AA's, national champs and International FS stars. Where Iowa is falling short is not coaching. PSU has been absolutely killing it in the recruiting battles in past years, when it comes to top decile guys. Iowa has stepped up recently with Marinelli and Mejia, but they need more of that kind of talent. Giving elite guys full rides, selling the Carver experience, etc.... whatever it takes, we need it.

Thanks for the opening, Rossel. I've been waiting patiently for another opportunity to spout statistics.

Since 2012, 48% of NCAA champs were top-10 P4P recruits. 70% were top 25. 88% were top 50. If you include the wrestlers currently ranked #1 for 2016, the stats remain almost exactly the same.

That means that for every Delgado (#75) there were 9 Olivers (#7), Taylors (#1), Ruths (#5), Dakes (#4), Stiebers (#1), Trirtsises (#1), Martinezes (#5), Coxes (#7), and Dierengers (#15). Not to mention McDonoughs (#14), St. Johns (#15) and Ramoses (#10).

That doesn't mean you can't develop a Grothus (#108), Rhoads (#136), Paddock (#63), Turk (#67), Holloway (#79), or Wilcke (#86) into an NCAA champ. It just isn't very likely.

Now can someone please show a gif of a dead horse?

 

[LaxHawk174]

Thanks for the opening, Rossel. I've been waiting patiently for another opportunity to spout statistics.

Since 2012, 48% of NCAA champs were top-10 P4P recruits. 70% were top 25. 88% were top 50. If you include the wrestlers currently ranked #1 for 2016, the stats remain almost exactly the same.

That means that for every Delgado (#75) there were 9 Olivers (#7), Taylors (#1), Ruths (#5), Dakes (#4), Stiebers (#1), Trirtsises (#1), Martinezes (#5), Coxes (#7), and Dierengers (#15). Not to mention McDonoughs (#14), St. Johns (#15) and Ramoses (#10).

That doesn't mean you can't develop a Grothus (#108), Rhoads (#136), Paddock (#63), Turk (#67), Holloway (#79), or Wilcke (#86) into an NCAA champ. It just isn't very likely.

Now can someone please show a gif of a dead horse?

I can't figure out how to post a GIF..
http://giphy.com/gifs/week-media-person-RL0xU1daTlMoE

 

[augiehawk]

I definitely think things need to be tweaked on the recruiting front and I have always believe that TnT were the best coaches out there, but after watching this year, I'm starting to question this a little.

First on the recruiting front. 1. Get more top 10 guys (not that they haven't been trying) but thrown more money at them, full rides even if needed. If you take a guy like IMar and put him on Iowa, we are probably the favorite. Only 1 or 2 guys away. 2. Recruit more athletic guys. I think a lot of times the guys we bring in improve, but are limited by their athletic talents. A lot of guys wrestle year round and I think some guys are somewhat peaked in high school and there is only so much they can improve. If you get more athletic guys and coach them up, then you will have a higher ceiling. Those are the guys to take chances on that are ranked lower in the rankings.

Coaching - after watching our lack of diverse offense this year and the Big Ten tournament, I think some coaching needs to change. We only work off the tie, and seem to have limited offense, very little scrambling ability, and do not turn guys except for Clark, Brooks, and somewhat Stoll. Need some new ideas and can not rely solely on pushing forward and working off the collar tie.

 

[SCstunners]

I definitely think things need to be tweaked on the recruiting front and I have always believe that TnT were the best coaches out there, but after watching this year, I'm starting to question this a little.

First on the recruiting front. 1. Get more top 10 guys (not that they haven't been trying) but thrown more money at them, full rides even if needed. If you take a guy like IMar and put him on Iowa, we are probably the favorite. Only 1 or 2 guys away. 2. Recruit more athletic guys. I think a lot of times the guys we bring in improve, but are limited by their athletic talents. A lot of guys wrestle year round and I think some guys are somewhat peaked in high school and there is only so much they can improve. If you get more athletic guys and coach them up, then you will have a higher ceiling. Those are the guys to take chances on that are ranked lower in the rankings.

Coaching - after watching our lack of diverse offense this year and the Big Ten tournament, I think some coaching needs to change. We only work off the tie, and seem to have limited offense, very little scrambling ability, and do not turn guys except for Clark, Brooks, and somewhat Stoll. Need some new ideas and can not rely solely on pushing forward and working off the collar tie.

Appreciate the info, but again beating the dead horse. We always sit here and say to recruit more athletic guys, get the blue chip recruits, have more offense, etc. We have Turk and Kemmerer in the room already. We have Happel, Marinelli, Young, & Luke Troy coming in next year. All 4 of those guys are ranked in the Top 5 of their weight class. On top of that Mejia and Renteria are committed for the for the year after and they are both Top 5 recruits already. I would say that these guys coming in are just as athletic, if not more athletic than anyone in the country. I would say the guys that come in under the radar like the Wilckes, Holloway, Erickson, St. John, Paddock, and Moody all have potential in college.

And lack of offense, don't let a couple of bad apples spoil the whole bunch for you. We know Meyer doesn't ever score points in the first period, We know Brandon Sorenson is not going to tech anyone, but I wouldn't say we don't have any offense. When Meyer is down by 2 after the first period every match, he has shown to come back and win. Sorenson has 1 loss to Zain on the year.... I would say he is ok. Gilman has just as many pins as anyone on the team and scores a hell of a lot of points every match. Clark is a hammer on top and can turn 3/4 of the 133 pounders in the country. Edwin Cooper has learned how to handle people on his feet and can be a hammer on top. I also believe he scored bonus points for us this past weekend. Rhoads has done nothing but impress me these past couple week. I would say that he is reaching his potential. I never thought he would be close to qualifying for NCAAs now he has a great wildcard chance. I would then go on to say that Burak is doing just fine with only two losses on the year.

Like what I said earlier in this thread, there isn't an excuse to find that makes us feel better about Penn State being better than us. It is time to just give props where it is due to Penn State and start focusing on getting to work. We are not that far away from them. Most years, teams that score as many points as we do at Big 10s win the dang thing. Lets stop being like Nebraska Football fans and living in the past. It is time to roll up the sleeves and just beat Penn State. Plain and Simple

 

[trumpy]

Don't apologize for me loser.

Congrats, you won "Dick of the Day", thanks for playin' Dick. bah Bye

Give me a break. Thomas Gilman is a great kid and a hard worker. His wrestling style and heart is something to admire. You may not like his attitude, but if he wrestled for PSU you'd love him. Furthermore I've had the pleasure of meeting a couple members of his family and you couldn't meet finer people. I will refrain from naming any past or present PSU wrestlers who I didn't care for.