I think Tony's tougher than your giving him credit for. Kid is a beast -- a big heavy, and very athletic, with a great head on his shoulders and a terrific attitude. I think he's going to be absolutely outstanding.
Recruits are coming to town this weekend
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Which brings up a good point. I don't how much Little Tony had been associated with Iowa...I don't think much at all. All of a sudden, boom, he declares. These kind of things happen, sometimes out of the blue
I don't think he will be beating Stoll as a true freshmen.
As much as I think a healthy Stoll is Top 5 type guy a big guy with knee problems is, well, problematic
Still got Costello - who may start the first half of this season and may be tougher and better than you think.
Which brings up a good point. I don't how much Little Tony had been associated with Iowa...I don't think much at all. All of a sudden, boom, he declares. These kind of things happen, sometimes out of the blue
He was even committed to another program in his home State of Illinois, the program being Northwestern. The status of the Northwestern program however might have helped his decision to look around for some better training opportunities.
Are blue things happening?Which brings up a good point. I don't how much Little Tony had been associated with Iowa...I don't think much at all. All of a sudden, boom, he declares. These kind of things happen, sometimes out of the blue
Regarding Costello: I agree. He is criminally underrated as a recruit on this board. Esspecially for an in State kid. He is the 4th ranked heavyweight in the class. That is nothing to sneeze at. However, he was a member of the 2017 recruiting class with Warner and Lee. That class has been recognized as an exempleary class. Now, the momentum needs to continue into the 2018 and 2019 classes. As of right now that isn't happening. Many fine recruits are still out there, but a growing number are pledging to other programs. Those programs...PSU, tOSU, OSU, happen to be the programs Iowa is competing against for Championships.
This could all be much to do about nothing however if recruits like Hilday, Sasso, and Teske announce later in the process that they are coming to Iowa. Which of course is still very much possible.
If we get Hidlay, Cass, Brands, and Lugo it would seem to me a success after last years class. You can only put ten on the mat and even with 4 a year that makes 16. Obviously there will be a few others with lower or no ranking to fill in for depth, but getting huge classes every year will only lead to more transfers. PSU may have a ton coming in, but how many will transfer out or ride the pine. We have already had several transfer out because the realized the would never see the mat. As WWDM says , Cass will be a good one. Brands has a lot of room to grow as he started relatively late and Lugo with our coaching and a redshirt could go a long ways. Hidlay is still the big question. If we dont get him I would be a little disappointed. I guess I dont see the sky as falling yet. If I remember right a few years ago everybody was complaining and then we got several good ones and it was rainbows and unicorns again. A little patience goes a long ways.
I don't doubt he's going to be a very solid heavyweight and likely multi time aa before he's all done. But you think he's going to have the same impact as Gable Steveson? Or Colton Schultz in next year's class?
Cass can absolutely be as good or better than Schultz from what I have seen of the 2.
Very few, of any, will have the same impact as a Steveson. But I really don't think Tony will be far behind. Schultz is also great, but he's especially outstanding in Greco, which might skew public opinion on him a little. I could see Tony being at his level.
Maybe, we'll see. Most of the recruiting services seem to disagree.
I get it on Steveson, but there's a guy or 2 like him in every class. We got 1 in Lee but no others since Metcalf. PSU and OSU have been getting most of the rest.
Warner doesn't qualify for you?
Love Warner, he's going to be a stud. Can't wait to watch him. But he's not a Hall, Lee, Steveson, Nolf, Snyder, Retherford can't miss, bonus point machine type imo. Hope I'm wrong.
Good Lord guys. I'll take this line up against anybody starting next year!!
125: Lee
133: Stickly/Murin/transfer
141: Turk/Murnin/Happel
149: Lugo
157: Kemdawg
165: The BULL
174: Young
184: Cash Money
197: Warner
Hwt: Stoll
Breakdown:
125: Best recruit since Metcalf period worse case scenario 3rd
133: AA
141: AA
149: AA
157: 1st or 2nd
165: Top 3
174: Top 3
184: AA
197: Top 3
Hwt: 1st or 2nd
125: Top 2 gone and only kid that remotely scares me here is Suriano. Fix is a maybe but he has to make it down here 1st
133: IF Murin can make it here look out if not there is top 8 is within reach biggest question mark in lineup(weird)
141: Whoever is here will AA but if it's Murin he will be top 5
149: Top 2 gone and if you don't like Lugo's chances against Thomsen(probably preseason #1) you are crazy.
157: Nolf vs. KEMDAWG and the rest can sort it out from there.
165: No more In IMart(who will be in the Iowa room by then) the BULL is just as good as Massa or Joseph if not better
174: After a year of watching Young you guys will see why I love this kid so much.
184: Cash finally at his weight. What's left that will keep him from being a AA.
197: Seriously Moore is legit but after that I LOVE what we have in Warner
Hwt: Who is left to beat Stoll. If u say Nevils or Hall I will disagree if you say one of the red shirt frosh I will strongly disagree.
125: Lee
133: Stickly/Murin/transfer
141: Turk/Murnin/Happel
149: Lugo
157: Kemdawg
165: The BULL
174: Young
184: Cash Money
197: Warner
Hwt: Stoll
Breakdown:
125: Best recruit since Metcalf period worse case scenario 3rd
133: AA
141: AA
149: AA
157: 1st or 2nd
165: Top 3
174: Top 3
184: AA
197: Top 3
Hwt: 1st or 2nd
125: Top 2 gone and only kid that remotely scares me here is Suriano. Fix is a maybe but he has to make it down here 1st
133: IF Murin can make it here look out if not there is top 8 is within reach biggest question mark in lineup(weird)
141: Whoever is here will AA but if it's Murin he will be top 5
149: Top 2 gone and if you don't like Lugo's chances against Thomsen(probably preseason #1) you are crazy.
157: Nolf vs. KEMDAWG and the rest can sort it out from there.
165: No more In IMart(who will be in the Iowa room by then) the BULL is just as good as Massa or Joseph if not better
174: After a year of watching Young you guys will see why I love this kid so much.
184: Cash finally at his weight. What's left that will keep him from being a AA.
197: Seriously Moore is legit but after that I LOVE what we have in Warner
Hwt: Who is left to beat Stoll. If u say Nevils or Hall I will disagree if you say one of the red shirt frosh I will strongly disagree.
There are two distinct groupings here. Hall, Lee and Steveson all had world class accomplishments before college and were definitely viewed as "can't miss". Nolf, Snyder and Zain, while all highly ranked, I don't think they were in "can't miss" territory like the other 3. From what I've seen of Warner, I don't think it is unreasonable to think that he could be just like the latter 3. (For example, look at the bonus stats for Zain and Snyder their freshman years and compare to last year.)
We need to average 2.5 top studs per class in order to fill a lineup. 2.5 studs/year x 5 classes in the room = 12.5 full-rides, so we also need creative financing.
PSU is averaging higher than this, but they can still only put 10 guys on the mat, so having more studs than that is a marginal advantage. Stop worrying about them. Worry about building lineups that can generate 120+ points.
We're not at 2.5 studs/year yet. 2015 = Kemerer. 2016 = Marinelli. 2017 = Lee + Warner. 2018 = Cassioppi + ?.
I also count Downey and Lugo, regardless of not having them for 5 years--we didn't tie up money on them for 5 years either. Someone said Lugo only went 2-2 last year, but he's still a year away from the Iowa lineup--pretend he's a senior in high school.
I'm excited about Cassioppi. I'm not that disappointed about Teske. Let's see if we nab Hidlay before we light the torches.
PSU is averaging higher than this, but they can still only put 10 guys on the mat, so having more studs than that is a marginal advantage. Stop worrying about them. Worry about building lineups that can generate 120+ points.
We're not at 2.5 studs/year yet. 2015 = Kemerer. 2016 = Marinelli. 2017 = Lee + Warner. 2018 = Cassioppi + ?.
I also count Downey and Lugo, regardless of not having them for 5 years--we didn't tie up money on them for 5 years either. Someone said Lugo only went 2-2 last year, but he's still a year away from the Iowa lineup--pretend he's a senior in high school.
I'm excited about Cassioppi. I'm not that disappointed about Teske. Let's see if we nab Hidlay before we light the torches.
I'd like to see TNT put the best team on the mat and find appropriate replacements as needed with the goal of recruiting studs who can make an impact immediately upon reaching campus.
Getting out of the habit of auto red shirting kids and going on a four year plan gets that 2.5 number down to 10.0 full rides needed rather than 12.5
I agree he is more of a Bo Nickal, Myles Martin, Quentin Wright, Ed Ruth, Gabe Dean, J'Den Cox, Dustin Kilgore type of can't miss bonus point Machine.
Snyder and Zain were certainly labeled as can't miss guys (Snyder lost to Gatsalov in a close match at age 18, we knew he was the real deal.) Nolf was on the same tier as Warner but a little higher. Snyder and Zain both had age group world titles, don't forget that.
I'm hoping he goes 3, 1, 1, 1. His pace and heart with some more strength will certainly help him do accomplish that.
Snyder was definitely a can't miss prospect, but I generally agree with your premise.
FYI, Snyder was #1 P4P in class of 2014 and Nolf was #4. Retheford was #3 in class of '13. I'm fine fishing in those waters.
Even within the top 5 there can be tiers. Nolf moved up late after a dominating senior season. He was #8-10 P4P before he committed if I remember correctly. Definitely a kid that just kept getting better and better.
Tarp, you usually offer some well needed realism to the conversation but I have to question putting Cassioppi in the same grouping as Lee, Warner, Marinelli and Kemerer. Don't get me wrong, he is a solid recruit, but I'm not seeing the same elite status and neither are the rankers.
Since I'm posting, Young appears to be regarded with a similar status by many posters (not you). To the board, what wins did he have his redshirt year to lead anyone to believe he will be contending for a top 3 finish or even AA early in his career?
I do think Warner is clearly a step ahead of those two and will have an early impact at 197 much like Moore at tOSU.
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You have always been a negative B but now you just went full retard. Never go full retard. Warner is just as big of recruit for our program as Lee once you factor in the weight he wrestles. He is a stud that would be high on the podium as a true fresh.
Cass is also a stud and I will take him over any Hwt not named Gable. Don't be surprised when he takes Gable out his last 2 years.
Look at the education level on this one. Think before you type certain words, fella.
You are partially correct about Cass, but not for the reason you typed. Getting a top 25ish lb4lb 285 usually IS a big deal. Especially in as deep of a class as 2017 is. You rarely see many 285's(especially true 285's instead of 215's) in that range and many of them end up playing Football. The ONLY reason not to necessarily be as excited is how strong the 2017 and 2018 classes are at 285, especially in the B1G.
285 (top 25ish)recruits over the past 10 years(plus this year and next):
2007:This was the year of Gardner and Platt not panning out(215's are very hard to predict at 285). However, the next highest ranked traditional 285 was Dom Bradley at #29. He was a 2X AA(3rd,4th) and probably would have been a 4X AA if not for sitting behind NCAA Champ Mark Ellis his 1st 2 seasons. #42 Rey, #64 Flores and #97 Trice were also in this class.
2008:Eric Thompson was the only one to wrestle ranked 26 but fell victim to bad grades and ended up at GrandView winning 3 NAIA Championships. He never wrestled a Varsity match for ISU.
2009: Tony Nelson was the highest traditional 285 ranked #49. We all know how he did. Jeremy Johnson was #50 and he was a 2x AA.
2010: Mike McMullan slotted in at #14 and the highest ranked High School Heavyweight so far. Telford was #19 and Lawson was #22. Spencer Myers was #37 and even he reached the podium. Alot of AA finishes from top 40 recruits.
2011: Gwiz was #18. Need I say anything? #20 Longendyke was named Redshirt of the year at Nebraska but fell off quickly thereafter. He did go on to be a DIII Champ at Augsburg. #25 Austin Marsden was a 2x AA.
2012: Vollaro was the highest ranked so far at #8. Definitely fell way short of expectations, but he did make R12 as a Senior and finished a respectable 72-23. Kroells was the next highest at #22 and he finished a 3X AA and may very well have been a 4xer if not for sitting behind Nelson his 1st season. The next one after that was #38 Tavanello. He made R12 as a Freshman and fell victim to injury the next and then got Snydered after that. Final tidbit, Ty Walz was #111 in this class.
2013: Coon is our highest so far at #2. R12,2,3 so far and very likely a Finalist again this season. Black was the next highest at #9. Has 1 season left, but is so far the biggest bust of the traditional 285's. The last top 50 is Aaron Bradley at 40 and he never ended up in a DI room.
2014: #5 Nevills will most likely be a solid 3X AA and probably a 4xer if not for injury. #9 Haines was a 215 but has done well dealing with Nevills and then Snyder taking his spots. Went 14-3 his first season at Lock Haven, but did not wrestle at EWL's. As a Soph he went 33-7 and 2-2 at NCAA's. At #14 is SAM STOLL. If not for injuries, it is pretty safe to say he would have been a strong podium contender his 1st 2 seasons. No other top 50 285's.
2015: Zack Chakonis is the only guy in the top 40 to wrestle. Has not done well, but with what is going on at Northwestern, I think he will just be happy to get that NU degree.
2016: #20 Wood, #23 Stencel and #28 Streck(Purdue) all had strong redshirt seasons.
2017: #10 Singletary(tOSU), #21 Hilger(Wisc),
2018: #1 Steveson(MINN), #2 Parris(Mich?), #11 Nevills(PSU) and # 28Cass(Iowa)
Why all the data? Simple. To show that Cass is very likely to be a multiple AA ranked in the top 30. If not for how crazy deep 285 has been the past couple of seasons, Cass would truly be a Gwiz level recruit.
Simply put, an overwhelming amount of true 285's that are ranked in the top 50 do very well in DI.
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MSU, didn't you hear...... rankings don't matter, only coaching up matters
Nice work on the data points.
Nice work on the data points.
No. be suprised. Be very surprised. You and everyone else on the planet. Would be good for the Hawks, but Cass is vastly inferior to Gable at present time and as present trajectories stand.
Per usual, you try to change the focus with an overwhelming amount of verbiage in an attempt to confuse things. Everything you wrote has nothing to do with the context of this discussion where you have people saying he is the same level of recruit as Spencer Lee, Warner, ect. Those guys were all top ten pound-for-pound recruits while Cass is #28 according to flo, 18 places out of the top 10 and behind #1 Steveson, #2 Parris and #11 Nevills in his own weight class so what I am saying is factually accurate. Furthermore, I can assure you that there are greater expectations for Lee, Warner, Marinelli and Kemerer then just being a 2-3 AA.
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Per usual, you are so biased and full of it that you can't see the forest through the trees. Top 10 lb4lb recruits expectations are similar to top 30ish for 285's and I showed why. Very few 285's make it to top 10 lb for lb. Just because they aren't that high lb4lb does not mean they won't do as well at 285 as the top 10's do at their weights. Hell, I even showed how well a vast majority of top 50 285's do. Should I show how many top 10 recruits flop????
Really, I cant see the forest from the trees, that's laughable, you are the one that writes paragraph after paragraph of nonsense cherry picking results to try make whatever convoluted point you are trying to make.
"Very few 285's make it to top 10 lb for lb." Well there are two in this class, three according to intermat and the number #2 and #3 recruits in the nation for 2019 are also heavyweights and there was one in 2017 so that's wrong.
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