Recruits are coming to town this weekend
- Thread starter Todd Conner
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I love that we got Warner but he would struggle this year. The reports I'm getting from the room are that he is struggling on bottom and needs to get stronger...something all but the uber elite freshman need. The bright side is that I've also heard he can take down anybody.
He needs the redshirt to get accustomed to college. That's just the truth of the matter.
Are you really that dense? You don't really need to answer, because I already know.
Cherrypicking? I used every 285 in that rank range for the past 10 years(plus this year and next). Until this year, there were exactly 5 top 10 285's(and I really hesitate to use Haines as he was truly more a 215). Is that alot, or very few?
It is a convoluted point to show how productive top 50 ranked 285s(not 215's or those that play football) were?
Also of your ranked guys in 2017-2018(I assume you meant 2018 instead of 2019), but I will add 2019 as well, only 1 isn't a 215. Singletary, Parris, Schultz are all 215. Kerkvliet was at 195. Steveson is the only true 285. Nevills is right there on the fringe so I have no issue if you added him.
Hell, I even said in my original post that the depth of the last 2 seasons recruits at 285 ARE the reason that you are partially correct. So, you literally tried to just use the argument I used for you against me. Too funny!
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Couldn't agree more. He would take a lot of lumps if he started this year. He should absolutely redshirt and then he will be competitive with the top of the 197 weight class as a RS Freshmen similiar to Kolin Moore at Ohio State right now.
Really Warner is a rich man's Kolin Moore. Remember Kolin Moore was the #97 overall recruit in his class.
Comlete tangent, but i've often wondered how Austin Blythe would have fared if he had wrestled at Iowa instead of football. Wasn't he a top 5 HWT when he was a HS senior?
Classy response...
And you are completely missing my point about Warner, especially compared to Lee.
Who do you think will score more points at nationals their RS freshmen and soph years, Warner or Lee?
Yet again you try to confuse things, now by using high school weights. FLO has all those guys listed as 285 recruits in their pound-for-pound rankings. That's five 285 recruits in the top 10 over a 3 year span (6 with Nevills) which completely contradicts what you said. The fact you try to acknowledge the strength of these classes to some extent just so you can hand wave it away is laughable. Those years count just as much as any other year. That's how averages work.
My years were correct, you just have reading comprehension issues. Steveson, Parris and Nevills are graduating in 2018. Schultz and Kerkvliet are graduating in 2019 and Singletary graduated in 2017.
In the end, everything you typed supports my view that Cass is a fine recruit as I stated in my op yet in no way contradicts my view that he does not fall into the same recruit category as Lee, Warner, ect. I'm done here.
Different kind of recruits. Moore didn't wrestle year round until college.
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He would have been a high AA and likely national champ if not multiple time national champ. No doubt.
Edit - He's currently playing in the Rams vs 49ers game on Thursday Night Football right now btw.
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You're right about Cassioppi and relative ranking. I usually don't drink the Kool-Aid but I think he's going to be great. Or maybe I'm just trying to be less negative!
Data = truth.
Not saying this proves Cass is on par with Lee. I think it makes a good point and we don't need to get hung up on arguing over Cass vs. Lee. Cass is a very good pick up for the Hawks at a need weight at the right time. Let's argue about 133 and 184 instead.
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Please tell me you aren't a trial lawyer. I honestly can't see you winning a case.............EVER
1.)Confuse things? Guess what, there isn't a 215 weight class in College. So, of course the 215's are considered 285 recruits. But, if you use common sense(hard for you to do), you would realize(and the numbers I provided support this) that coming from 215 to DI 285 is not easy and many have proven to have had difficulty doing so. That includes star recruits like Gardner, Platt and Haines(he still has 2 years to change that).
2.)You are using your top 10 recruits(2017-2019) that again I acknowledged as the ONE reason you were partially correct. I wasn't arguing against that part at all. Why can't you understand that. My point was the last 10 years show that CONVENTIONAL 285's are rarely ranked in the top 10, but more importantly those that are in the Top 50 have done VERY WELL. Because the 285 class for this year and the next 2 are ranked higher than the last 10 doesn't change the fact that being ranked #28 has historically produced a very good 285. But, history of 215lb highly ranked guys may actually show that Cass has a strong chance to surpass them.
3.)Lets get into the MATH for timelines. Which must be why you went into Law, because you definitely don't seem to understand it. Exactly 5 285 recruits were top 10 in the 10 year time frame The last 10 years does not include this year, or years after. Why, because this year hasn't started yet. That is why I even put in my header the last 10 years and then in parentheses I included this year and next. So when you said this year's class and then went to 2019 next, you were the one not understanding how it works. 2017 is still "This" class. 2018 is NEXT year's class. I specifically stated that 2018 and 2019 have been an anomaly and are the only reason to support you not being as high with Cass's ranking as many on here are. 2017 had a 215 at 10th(so even that year does nothing to diminish my point. Cass is coming in with a ton of uber talented big men. But, being ranked 28th as a 285 has historically been proven to be on par with being a top 10 recruit at other weights. And THAT was the whole fricking point!
Pretty crazy considering he is 6'4" and wrestled in the 260's in DI. But, the key point was he was a #49 recruit, not top 10.
I like the timing of the Novachkov announcement and the announcement of the wrestling facility.. right before the recruits are all in town.
Scrawny high school kid who finally matured or ..... something like that.
Nelson progressed gradually in weight throughout high school and into college. Weighed 230+ when he stepped on campus and finished in the low 260's. Gaining 6 pounds a year once dedicated to lifting?! Somebody get WADA on the phone!
Kroells had a very similar weight progression during his time at MN as well. Some people just carry weight differently.
Tony Nelson really wanted to win a State Title which up until his Senior year had eluded him. He was cutting a good amount of weight to make 215. He always had the frame of a heavyweight and was just a matter of filling out. Much different than many of the successful 215's of the shorter stockier variety which tend to be very hit or miss on the next level.
That was sarcasm. Tony has never been scrawny.Nelson progressed gradually in weight throughout high school and into college. Weighed 230+ when he stepped on campus and finished in the low 260's. Gaining 6 pounds a year once dedicated to lifting?! Somebody get WADA on the phone!
Kroells had a very similar weight progression during his time at MN as well. Some people just carry weight differently.
I'll vote for "something like that."
Calling Kolat's dad .... jk. Still can't believe that crazy stuff that went on back then.
I really dont like that word(retard), but I really do agree with your thoughts on Warner
GO HAWKS!!
It's a long season. Warner might take some lumps along the way, but I cant find a way that he wouldnt end up the podium this season after a year in our room. Does he need some work underneath? Show me a freshman that doesn't. Remember, how many kids were at caliber high enough to make him do much underneath mat wrestling during the past four years? He will get better at it, and my guess, pretty quickly.
With that said, he needs to redshirt, along with S Lee. Nothing we do this year will help us win. Let's get 2 or 3 of the next four.
GO HAWKS!!
What's Keddy doing now? Can we hire him to lead a 6-week intensive camp consisting solely of Warner?
I don't know that what Keddy was able to do can be taught. Unless you want to teach having thighs and legs as strong as a bear and as big a round as his legs are long. The guy had such a strong lower body that he could literally explode off the whistle like a rocket. Some things just can't be taught!
Maybe we should get creative and have Warner put on a 6 week camp for Keddy (Warner gets paid by the HWC of course).
Welcome back, Grappler! Behave this time and you can stick around.
BTW: My question from a few years ago is still on the table...Gophers harness any elite p4p kids from out of State or just in-State kids with your D1 monopoly?
It's almost like they planned it that way!
Well if we don't get Hidlay I'm blaming Perez Perez and Cash! Come on guys let the prized recruit win the title
The Gophers and Hawkeyes are ranked 9th and 10th in the country. We have bigger problems than our pissing matches.
You mean the prescription drug problem, right?
I can see that! Since your posting at 4:30am, I'm betting you have a issue with insomnia.
Besides, it's college wrestling not world peace that we're talking about. I like a little good natured debate from time to time.
They are both going to score a ton of points. The ? should be who would score more points if we didn't land either one. Lee's replacement or Warner's replacement. That is why Warner is the same level recruit as Lee. We are looking at a development/ low to mid AA type to replace Warner. 125 isn't near as tough for our coaches to land a stud. They are both elite super recruits who are program changers. I feel Warner should get every bit as much hype as Lee due to the aforementioned.
There is a good chance someone other than Perez starts the season at 125. I think it is 99% that Lee goes if healthy by January. He is still small for the weight, but that won't matter. He won't be giving up as much weight as some thought.
Don't be surprised if someone seldom mentioned earns the 141 spot. I don't have a % for this, but it is a legit chance. I think Turk will win the H2H against Happel. I hope Happel certified for 133, but don't believe he did. I think wrestler C would win the 141 spot if he can handle the cut. The decision will probably drag out If wrestler C or D don't enter the mix. I believe Happel has more offense, but Turk is a true 141.
This is one of the more exciting times heading into the season. Just knowing the starting line up in Nov could be 50 or 60% different in Dec/Jan is likely why I can't wait for the season to kick off.
Hidlay is a big recruit but don't fire up the torches (tarphawk) if we don't land him. From what I hear it will come down to whether he projects at 74 or 84. He will be a beast at either weight but there is only so much money to go around.
We need a stud 133. Everyone knows it.
Having Downey in the room has paid off. He has helped Meyer especially, and Brooks/Warner. I hope he doesn't get content and fall back into the self destruct mode. He has a good thing going right now if he will just stay focused on the big prize. If you are reading this PDHAWK stay focused, get those classes passed, stay quiet on social media, and roll to a national title.
I see PDHAWK knocking penny off in the quarters, and Martin off in the semi's. Martin will knock penny into the 5th place match.
Carl is still as dirty as ever. Tom Ryan is as well but he is smarter than Carl and keeps the lower profile. Eventually Carl's tenure will end in scandal and maybe the Big Ten will have the balls to give them the boot. Lots of money floating around. Rewatching the Joseph and Hall matches makes me wonder if those officials were included in the slush fund. They had a different standard for the guys in the ugly blue teddy bear singlets. I expect the FBI to be sniffing around Penn State in another year.
Teasdale I have to say I am fine that we lost him. I don't think he would stay eligible here, and would end up putting bigger screws to us. Carl or tan Tommy are about the only coaches that will keep him eligible. There is high risk/reward with Carl pushing Gavin to man 125.
I noticed none of the penn state felon lovers came on here and apologized when I tried telling them how unhappy Suriano was. Carl screwed the kid over in more ways than one. Classless Carl is still tampering trying to get that 125 transfer this year.
From what I hear, Metcalf wishes he was out hunting. The money makes the air smell better, but won't last forever. We are getting way more bang for the buck with Perry and company. It isn't even close.
Any chance you can give us a hint on who he is trying to poach? Can't imagine any coach in his right mind would let a kid transfer with a release at this point in the year when the coach is tempering. So must be a Jr for next season. Sean Russell? Moisey?
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