- Sep 13, 2002
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Resident says cop who pulled gun on teens at pool party “deserves a medal”
- Thread starter Arbitr8
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Man, I wish we could get our PD to actually say what we want them to!
How many have been involved in a national story that was blowing up racial tensions around the country? Having worked in PR, albeit a while ago in my previous career.......you always looked for ways of minimizing the damage and perception of your client.
The Cop was wrong for drawing his weapon......but from all reports flowing in now...they were not wrong for trying to get the uninvited kids to leave or moving to detain the girl for not complying or leaving when she was asked to, then told to.
Wait, so when a person makes STATEMENT A, and in fact STATEMENT A is false, and the person uttering it knows/believes it is false...........that isn't a lie?
Is that a serious thought?
Has the above ever been in question on this board? The second part is just hogwash.
SEC, I'm not sure where you are sitting on this. Pretty obvious you did work in PR somewhere. Basically only arbitr and a handful of idiots on here really think he was in the right. I ask again, in the entire video, was 1 white person asked (or cursed at) to sit the f down, chased, or even told to do anything? If we want to say his resignation was a PR move, then fine. This guy was the instigator. Period. He embarrassed himself and the department.
I don't know the complete answer to your question, I have only seen about 30 seconds worth of video on the incident. Honest question - were any white people part of the fence jumper/party crashing crowd? Were there white people that had already sat down as instructed that weren't in the frame, etc?
From what I recall, there was a white man that was chased by two officers. This was the guy that came in from the right of the frame and squatted down and had at least one hand behind his back.
IMO, there isn't enough information in the short clip to say for sure if someone is identifying potential detainees based on their race alone. It also appears as though Officer Freakout was not chasing all black people, but some. Perhaps there is something, or a number of things, that happened prior to the "camera rolling" that caused him to select who he did...I don't know.
Also, unless you have more information about what preceded the oft shown clip...I don't think you can label the officer as the instigator. (Yes, he appears to be plenty guilty of helping to escalate tensions, but it is not clear by what has been shown who started what and some of the narrative that is out there suggests there was plenty of "action" before the takedown.)
You could take the word of the kid filming it, you can easily see from the video that he wasn't harassed (during that time)....and he believes it was because he was white.
But, again, I don't believe this was overly racial. It was just an a**hat running around like an a**hat.
But, again, I don't believe this was overly racial. It was just an a**hat running around like an a**hat.
Is it true that the cop responded to 2 SUICIDE calls prior to this? Damn that would be tough to deal with as one of the people committing SUICIDE shot himself in front of his family.
Im sorry but if your going to stand around and talk and make an ass of yourself you get what you deserve. When I was in college Bar tending every time a fight broke out, there would be people standing around yelling at the cops who started it and every single time someone who wasn't even associated with the fight would get hauled away because they were being an idiot. At first I would try and stop people then after a while I just gave up on them. If their dumb enough argue and interfere with the cops, that's their problem, not mine.
Im sorry if your dumb enough to stand around when the cops are telling you to leave, you GTFO there and go home. If you have any information you can call the cops and have them come to you if needed.
This is a lesson that kids all around the world need to learn. Listen to the police and if they tell you to leave, GTFO there. Don't argue, don't stand around and say crap to them. Just leave.
Im sorry but if your going to stand around and talk and make an ass of yourself you get what you deserve. When I was in college Bar tending every time a fight broke out, there would be people standing around yelling at the cops who started it and every single time someone who wasn't even associated with the fight would get hauled away because they were being an idiot. At first I would try and stop people then after a while I just gave up on them. If their dumb enough argue and interfere with the cops, that's their problem, not mine.
Im sorry if your dumb enough to stand around when the cops are telling you to leave, you GTFO there and go home. If you have any information you can call the cops and have them come to you if needed.
This is a lesson that kids all around the world need to learn. Listen to the police and if they tell you to leave, GTFO there. Don't argue, don't stand around and say crap to them. Just leave.
His attorney said that race had nothing to do with how the officer responded.
"He believed that those who fled were possible suspects," Bishkin said. "He was not targeting minorities. In fact, he also detained a white female who you do not see on the video. His effort to gather information was hampered by some teenagers who were instructing others to defy police instructions."
Ok, so he thought they were possible suspects........of what? Trespassing? Did he believe they were the ones fighting? Based on what?
And that is why he acted the way he did? Jesus, I wonder how he'd act with a real offense taking place.
Now, sure the suicide calls are going to mess him up, but that just further illustrates the point. There needs to be more/better training regarding response, and it sounds like his intuition (not wanting to respond) was the best thing, but he failed to follow that instinct.
He is not a victim.
"He believed that those who fled were possible suspects," Bishkin said. "He was not targeting minorities. In fact, he also detained a white female who you do not see on the video. His effort to gather information was hampered by some teenagers who were instructing others to defy police instructions."
Ok, so he thought they were possible suspects........of what? Trespassing? Did he believe they were the ones fighting? Based on what?
And that is why he acted the way he did? Jesus, I wonder how he'd act with a real offense taking place.
Now, sure the suicide calls are going to mess him up, but that just further illustrates the point. There needs to be more/better training regarding response, and it sounds like his intuition (not wanting to respond) was the best thing, but he failed to follow that instinct.
He is not a victim.
The video I watched was seven minutes, nineteen seconds long. I believe some of the doubters would believe that Rambo Fife was certainly in the wrong if they bothered to watch all of it.
And again, this is NOT to say that the cops should not have been called, nor that the other eleven officers didn't do a good job, or that the teens could not have done a better job of following orders!
Although as to following orders, I'm not sure I'd have understood exactly what Rambo wanted...he's yelling at people to sit down, move across the street, go home...knowing exactly what he wanted couldn't be that easy. The teen he dropped to the ground? He had ordered her to leave, she moved away. Later he had to walk to her to bring her back. Earlier, another cop was conversing with some teens and doing a great job of handling things when Rambo came back from one of his seek and destroy solo missions and started shoving kids to the ground just a few feet from where the other officer was standing. Cripes.......if that doesn't show how out of control he was I don't know what it takes.
And again, this is NOT to say that the cops should not have been called, nor that the other eleven officers didn't do a good job, or that the teens could not have done a better job of following orders!
Although as to following orders, I'm not sure I'd have understood exactly what Rambo wanted...he's yelling at people to sit down, move across the street, go home...knowing exactly what he wanted couldn't be that easy. The teen he dropped to the ground? He had ordered her to leave, she moved away. Later he had to walk to her to bring her back. Earlier, another cop was conversing with some teens and doing a great job of handling things when Rambo came back from one of his seek and destroy solo missions and started shoving kids to the ground just a few feet from where the other officer was standing. Cripes.......if that doesn't show how out of control he was I don't know what it takes.
Apparently one of the kids that had the gun drawn on him has a lawyer and plans to sue the cop for "official oppression." The kid said he was just trying to tell the girl on the ground that they would call her mom, he wasn't acting in a provocative manner.
The downward spiral continues.
The downward spiral continues.
We obviously don't know what happened earlier, but the 7 minutes we saw from the video was the point of when Johnny Utah got there. That is all that matters. As DanL said, the part at maybe 4-5 minutes in to it where the 1 cop is calmly talking to the black kids who are standing beside him and Johnny Utah comes over and demands they get on the ground. They were calmly talking to the other policeman! You guys can keep trying to justify his behavior, but you aren't going to win. Think about it. In most cases, as cops "investigate themselves" they normally come back and say it's almost always justified. This was so over the top I'm guessing the guys that watched the video were probably rolling around on the ground laughing at what a buffoon he was.
Link to initial fight that prompted the police response.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...aced-on-Administrative-Leave-by-CoreLogic-Inc
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...aced-on-Administrative-Leave-by-CoreLogic-Inc
Interesting. I agree the cop acted like a roided tard but maybe the call was that a teenaged black girl in a bikini assaulted a woman and was last seen seen walking away with other black teens. Maybe that's way the cop was intent on stopping "only" black kids, as others on here are incessant on pointing out.
The comments in that article are scary.
So your premise was that he ran around wildly, making everyone sit down/stand up/leave, because the caller could have been about a "teenaged black girl in a bikini".
Jesus, if that is true, he was really off his rocker.
You have to either be trolling or you're just an idiot. Where did I say that? I said the cop acted like a moron. I just made the comment of why MAYBE he was stopping only black kids.
How did you NOT say that? You gave a premise for why he was targeting the black girl.....................................so either you completely ignored the rest of the sequence of his actions, or he really was out of control.
If someone called in a "black bikini'd girl".........why was he "stopping only black kids" as you propose? In case they were secretly bikini'd?
If someone called in a "black bikini'd girl".........why was he "stopping only black kids" as you propose? In case they were secretly bikini'd?
I will agree with this. The video certainly appears to indicate that the officer is overreacting when he was running around after the kids.
The problem is, we only are seeing part of what occurred. We don't know exactly what he had already gone through to get to the point where the kids were cuffed on the ground. It is easy to imagine that he had already been dealing with uncooperative kids for quite a while at that poiint.
As far as him pulling his gun, that was ABSOLUTELY NOT an over reaction. He was being surrounded by a group of people and 2 males were approaching him somewhat quickly and one put his hand near his waist band. It is a very reasonable response for a cop to pull his gun once surrounded by numerous people like this and he believes he may be in danger.
Agreed. but the part where he pulled his weapon was justifiable.
Otherwise, the other cops wouldn't have chased them. They saw the exact same thing.
You mean the the other LEOs were stopping him from keeping his gun drawn and chasing them?
Amazing how differently we can view the same video.
Amazing how differently we can view the same video.
Yeah, that's why two other cops quickly stopped him. If you watched the video, the two kids -- one of whom gets pushed by the kid behind toward the cop. He was the kid arrested and the cops dropped that charge almost immediately upon looking through the whole video. So you're basically talking out your arse on this. And the video doesn't ever show him going for his waistband. What a bunch of wishful bullsh*t . There was NO justification for him pulling his gun out and he's lucky that two calmer and more professional cops were there to prevent what could have been a real tragedy.
There were 12 cops on the scene, 11 of whom acted professionally and followed their training to diffuse the situation. Anyone arguing that he was even remotely justified for his behavior needs to discuss it with the Police Chief at McKinney because his ass was fired. He resigned because, maybe, he might be able to get another job (though I hope not). Fired, nobody touches him with a ten-foot pole. Anyone arguing that he was justified is an idiot...or worse.
Jesus, if in that situation he is that frightened (you know, the others don't seem to be).........he probably needs a new profession.
I have made that point many times. Many LEOs and their supporters these day cry about how much danger they are in, perpetually. When they conduct a traffic stop = imminent death. Breaking up a teenage pool party = edge of a cliff.
If they are, seriously, that afraid and believe that they are near certain death, maybe they should be working at, well, a telemarketing firm or something.
My mother is scared of everything, if she were armed there would be bullet holes all through her house....she would be a terrible cop.
I suggest you watch the video again. Those other two cops didn't stop him,or even try. They came running up,i assume to assist, one of them bumped into him and you can see him point to the 2 that were running away. They pursued them.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/what-caused-mckinneys-pool-to-boil-over#.ddWPEYvKX
Article calling out the Sean Toon guy that FoxNews is using to try and "clarify" what atrocities the teenagers were committing.
“I’m 100% sure that he said, ‘You should go back to the Section 8 [public] housing where you’re from because you don’t belong in our neighborhood,’” Grace Stone, a 14-year-old white McKinney resident who defended her black friends, told BuzzFeed News. “That’s when I went off. I called him an asshole. He had no right to say that. You shouldn’t be that hateful. That’s when [one of Toon’s female acquaintances] came up to me and said, ‘You don’t talk to adults like that.’ She was saying I needed to do something with my life and find a nice path for myself.”
Turns out that he, and his wife, were friends with the woman who got in the fight, the fight apparently over racial comments, after the pool was "shut down." Of course he didn't tell Fox he was friends with her, or with her at the pool at the time.
His wife:
When asked by BuzzFeed News on Monday night whether she recalled her husband or anyone making any racist comments to the teens, Shannon Barber Toon said, “That’s where it’s a little fuzzy for me. I know there were people yelling at each other. The only racial thing I heard was spoken by some of the black girls inside the pool area saying, ‘They just want to kick us out because we black.’”
Any time you are "fuzzy" on whether you said racial things....you said racial things.
And not that this matters, but I found it funny:
According to an APBNews.com article posted to a chat group in 1999, Toon was among four teens charged with breaking into a barn, beating at least 12 turkeys to death, and spray-painting the animals with his school’s colors to celebrate a football victory. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice confirmed to BuzzFeed News he spent 285 days in jail. Records show he was also arrested in 1999 for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
Also:
Jennifer Stone, the mother of the white teenage girl who defended her black friends, told BuzzFeed News that emotions in the town are running high. Her daughter, Grace, was handcuffed by police for around 30 minutes after trying to give her version of events to the officers. Grace said she was the only white person detained.
Oh and in regards to all the unwelcome guests and the streaming over the fences:
There was a professional DJ playing music, but no tickets were sold and the organizers didn’t throw the party for profit, teens told BuzzFeed News. They also vehemently denied reports that some were using drugs or alcohol. Many kids had cards to the pool and others were using shared guest passes to gain entry, but when pool attendants stopped letting people in some began jumping the fence.
Just food for thought for those that like to bring up all of the extraneous stuff to try and prove their point. i.e. did you know she was a dangerous bad guy because of X event years ago!
Article calling out the Sean Toon guy that FoxNews is using to try and "clarify" what atrocities the teenagers were committing.
“I’m 100% sure that he said, ‘You should go back to the Section 8 [public] housing where you’re from because you don’t belong in our neighborhood,’” Grace Stone, a 14-year-old white McKinney resident who defended her black friends, told BuzzFeed News. “That’s when I went off. I called him an asshole. He had no right to say that. You shouldn’t be that hateful. That’s when [one of Toon’s female acquaintances] came up to me and said, ‘You don’t talk to adults like that.’ She was saying I needed to do something with my life and find a nice path for myself.”
Turns out that he, and his wife, were friends with the woman who got in the fight, the fight apparently over racial comments, after the pool was "shut down." Of course he didn't tell Fox he was friends with her, or with her at the pool at the time.
His wife:
When asked by BuzzFeed News on Monday night whether she recalled her husband or anyone making any racist comments to the teens, Shannon Barber Toon said, “That’s where it’s a little fuzzy for me. I know there were people yelling at each other. The only racial thing I heard was spoken by some of the black girls inside the pool area saying, ‘They just want to kick us out because we black.’”
Any time you are "fuzzy" on whether you said racial things....you said racial things.
And not that this matters, but I found it funny:
According to an APBNews.com article posted to a chat group in 1999, Toon was among four teens charged with breaking into a barn, beating at least 12 turkeys to death, and spray-painting the animals with his school’s colors to celebrate a football victory. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice confirmed to BuzzFeed News he spent 285 days in jail. Records show he was also arrested in 1999 for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
Also:
Jennifer Stone, the mother of the white teenage girl who defended her black friends, told BuzzFeed News that emotions in the town are running high. Her daughter, Grace, was handcuffed by police for around 30 minutes after trying to give her version of events to the officers. Grace said she was the only white person detained.
Oh and in regards to all the unwelcome guests and the streaming over the fences:
There was a professional DJ playing music, but no tickets were sold and the organizers didn’t throw the party for profit, teens told BuzzFeed News. They also vehemently denied reports that some were using drugs or alcohol. Many kids had cards to the pool and others were using shared guest passes to gain entry, but when pool attendants stopped letting people in some began jumping the fence.
Just food for thought for those that like to bring up all of the extraneous stuff to try and prove their point. i.e. did you know she was a dangerous bad guy because of X event years ago!
Iowahawk, just give it up. You're never going to convince arbitr and his ilk that the cops ever do anything wrong. 9 out of 10 rational people can watch that video and see an out if control cop who escalated a situation that really wasn't that big of a deal.
What a load of crap. If a cop is arresting someone and others try to intervene to try to stop the LEO or even disrupt it, expect that you may have a gun pulled on you by a cop.
To say they weren't starting to surround the LEO is a lie.
The other cops were going after the 2 guys as the guys were surrounding the LEO not the cop who pulled the gun.
Lulz why don't you join the academy bro. You take every chance you get to criticize officers and obviously think you have a solid grasp on the law- based on your previous posts. I think it's time for a life as a public servant as you obviously know how to do a better job than any current officer.
And btw regarding you're infatuation with the police chiefs PR statement to the media, you're a fuqing retard.
I agree. I think the police need to just stop showing up. Let these folks handle things on their own. They are never much help anyway.
Hindsight.. let's say the LEO doesn't pull his weapon and the kid that reached back with his left arm pulled a knife or a gun and attacked the LEO - bet everyone would be saying "why didn't he draw his weapon"!? It's a "bang-bang" play, first instinct is to protect yourself and the other's around you obeying the law.
If you resist, you get what you get.
I would rather show force and run the risk of having to use it then not.
Yeah, the cop was out of control, but maybe he's oppressed from being called a "midget" his whole life? I'm not sure though, that only seems to count when blacks are called "n****r" by white people. Speaking of which, did you happen to hear the young black man refer to the cop as a "n****r"?
This is it, this is exactly my point. LEOs and their supporters believe that officers are on the verge of certain death at every step of their job.
What if a routine traffic stop of a teenage girl in a yellow VW bug listening to Shania Twain, she pulls a gun and caps him in the face? Better have his gun drawn, ready to fire.
You admit you would RATHER see a person shot, than an officer put in any HYPOTHETICAL danger. THAT is my point, THAT is what frightens me. We are basically likening patrol-officers to Marines in combat zones, which is absurd.
(not to mention ignoring the quite obvious reason why those kids ran up to the officer in the first place. You seem to be a believer in "you reap what you sow" , for everyone but the cop)
Some people are probably starting to believe this. Last month a girlfriend (wife?) in FLA called the police because her boyfriend was threatening suicide with a knife at his throat. Apparently the officers arrive, enter the room and shoot him.
