Resident says cop who pulled gun on teens at pool party “deserves a medal”

[theIowaHawk]

Lulz why don't you join the academy bro. You take every chance you get to criticize officers and obviously think you have a solid grasp on the law- based on your previous posts. I think it's time for a life as a public servant as you obviously know how to do a better job than any current officer.

And btw regarding you're infatuation with the police chiefs PR statement to the media, you're a fuqing retard.

You are right, maybe I should go do the 14 weeks of training at the ILEA, then I could get the benefit of all doubt. I know I'd be an expert after 3.5 months.

You know what my real problem is? You treat LEOs differently than all other "public servants", even those putting themselves in danger, such as Fireman. Even worse, non-public servants get no benefit of a doubt, even if they have far more training in their field. If a LEO is killed, you know a danger inherent in the job they chose, it is an absolute abhorrent tragedy to many....leading to over-enforcement, because god-forbid these people be in danger, again a part of their job.

Case-in-point on this? I SPECIFICALLY asked Arby about this awhile back, that if a LEO's death was more tragic than some others. He said it was more tragic than a military member, more so than an elected official, such as the president. If that doesn't show the irrationality on this, I really don't know what does.

14 weeks of training and we put them on a giant pedestal.

 

[theIowaHawk]

What a load of crap. If a cop is arresting someone and others try to intervene to try to stop the LEO or even disrupt it, expect that you may have a gun pulled on you by a cop.

To say they weren't starting to surround the LEO is a lie.

The other cops were going after the 2 guys as the guys were surrounding the LEO not the cop who pulled the gun.

You miss most people's complaint. Other posters have tried to distinguish this, even to me, and I get their point. One should, probably expect a gun to be drawn. That isn't the complaint. The question is whether we, society, should approve of the gun-pulling. Most on here are not ok with it in that scenario.

You say surrounding the LEO, I think many/most watch the video and see kids running up to their friend who has been thrown to the ground for little, if no reasonable reason.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I'm amazed at how some posters, Hydro for example, get to discount the comments they simply don't like.

HE believes the officer was "right", so goddamnit, if the officer's BOSS says he was wrong...........well, it is "PR", he doesn't really believe it. Does that make it a lie? Well, not to SEC, it is just PR.

 

[Vroom_C14]

This is it, this is exactly my point. LEOs and their supporters believe that officers are on the verge of certain death at every step of their job.

What if a routine traffic stop of a teenage girl in a yellow VW bug listening to Shania Twain, she pulls a gun and caps him in the face? Better have his gun drawn, ready to fire.

You admit you would RATHER see a person shot, than an officer put in any HYPOTHETICAL danger. THAT is my point, THAT is what frightens me. We are basically likening patrol-officers to Marines in combat zones, which is absurd.

(not to mention ignoring the quite obvious reason why those kids ran up to the officer in the first place. You seem to be a believer in "you reap what you sow" , for everyone but the cop)

I did NOT say I would rather see a person shot, I said "I would rather SHOW force and run the risk of having to use it - I NEVER said shoot.

Your analogy is flawed for the VW - the officer will walk up to the car, inspecting it as he approaches. His\her hand will go to their holster if anything deems it necessary. If the girl in the VW acts like they are going to pull a gun, the officer will respond (just like he did with an aggressive teen running at him and reaching behind his back).

Guess what - if the teen didn't charge at the cop, he doesn't draw his weapon. Amazing I know.

Would you rather the cop wait to get shot before he shows force? By the way, every day that a LEO takes to his job - he\she ARE at those steps you mention.

 

[clickhere 01]

Clever. I suggest you watch that part of the video again and then explain how Downtowns take is accurate.

 

[clickhere 01]

This is it, this is exactly my point. LEOs and their supporters believe that officers are on the verge of certain death at every step of their job.

What if a routine traffic stop of a teenage girl in a yellow VW bug listening to Shania Twain, she pulls a gun and caps him in the face? Better have his gun drawn, ready to fire.

You admit you would RATHER see a person shot, than an officer put in any HYPOTHETICAL danger. THAT is my point, THAT is what frightens me. We are basically likening patrol-officers to Marines in combat zones, which is absurd.

(not to mention ignoring the quite obvious reason why those kids ran up to the officer in the first place. You seem to be a believer in "you reap what you sow" , for everyone but the cop)

A ridiculous analogy laced with hyperbole. Well done.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I see, so the difference is that the teen was reaching for a potential gun?

Guess what - if the LEO, for no real apparent reason, doesn't throw the girl to the ground, the teen doesn't "charge", and no weapon is drawn. Amazing I know.

No, that is always the strawman that gets thrown up. "Well, do you just want the officer to be dead before he shoots?" Of course not. I'm saying that every circumstance is different. This one appears to be wrong, and most on here appear to agree with that. He, therefore, should be reprimanded.

Are you really claiming that LEOs are on the "verge of certain death" in their job, every day, and all of the time? THAT IS MY POINT, that is ludicrous, not supported by statistics, and absurd. But it is precisely the problem, if we, as society, believe that, then no LEO will ever be in the wrong. (See: Arbitr8).

 

[theIowaHawk]

A ridiculous analogy laced with hyperbole. Well done.

I wasn't analogizing, and I made that clear. I made a statement: "This is it, this is exactly my point. LEOs and their supporters believe that officers are on the verge of certain death at every step of their job."

Then I gave a scenario, a scenario where many uber-supports of LEOs would believe that the officer is in grave danger.

It is only hyperbole if you think it false. Tell me, in what scenario would an officer be in the wrong in drawing his firearm?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Clever. I suggest you watch that part of the video again and then explain how Downtowns take is accurate.

I have, and I have, so has many other posters. You claimed the two officers didn't stop him or didn't even try. I even said, previously, how amazing it is that you/I/others can watch that same video and come to such differing conclusions. One of the officers ran directly up to him. You believe he was just chasing the other two, and was what, clumsy? Or, alternatively, you agree with the rest of us, that he was calming down an out-of-countrol officer by grabbing his arm/shoulder, probably even telling him that he would take care of the runners.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Here is the video queued up.

The first two girls to "aggressively run up" are pushed away, because, well, he can't take his attention/knee off of the girl who is clearly no danger. As he literally shoves them away the two boys come up, one takes off his hat, the other has a towel.

At 3:12 the officer gets up, glares at the two, and the two have already stepped back, 3, maybe 4 feet and are backpedaling. His hand is near his gun. The two boys have their backs entirely turned to the officer and are sprinting before the gun is even fully un-holstered.

Two officers enter the scene at 3:14, one who puts his hand on the shoulder of the cop w/ the gun, he is looking down at the girl on the ground. The other cop then proceeds to chase, presumably the khaki shorts/blue shirt ("aggressive") guy, while the other "aggressive" kid is standing one foot away, behind that tiny tree. Neither officer even acknowledges him. Presumably they are chasing the other guy because he is actively running.

What is gun-cop's next move? To keep his gun out, yell, "Get your ass on the ground" (or similar) to a girl who is sitting on the ground. He then picks her up to her feet, swings her around, and "on your face" throws her to the grass. A second time, he grabs the back of her head and shoves it to the ground.

Now, why is such force usually necessary? Officer safety. Is he frightened of her? He is ignoring all of those around, so it must be about her. He has pretty clearly seized her, is it for an arrest? For safety? I don't know how you can watch the video and know.

Most of you wanting to award the cop simply say, "she brought it on herself," which is not a legal standard, or anything related to him doing his job.

The video is there. We clearly disagree.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I mean, hell, take a look at the thread title. "He deserves a medal".

Even if you believe he was justified, or that his actions weren't bad, or not over the top............why in the sam hell would he get a medal for this? This is demonstrative of the over-glorification/protection of LEOs that I am discussing. Some people actually think he deserves a medal.

 

[clickhere 01]

I have, and I have, so has many other posters. You claimed the two officers didn't stop him or didn't even try. I even said, previously, how amazing it is that you/I/others can watch that same video and come to such differing conclusions. One of the officers ran directly up to him. You believe he was just chasing the other two, and was what, clumsy? Or, alternatively, you agree with the rest of us, that he was calming down an out-of-countrol officer by grabbing his arm/shoulder, probably even telling him that he would take care of the runners.

Just so we're clear,my take on this whole incident is the cop was generally out of control. I just think posters on both sides of this issue go to extremes to make their point. IMO, Downtowns post was an example of that. He exaggerated the other 2 cops involvement in stopping the out of control cop. Didn't happen.

 

[Hy_dro]

You are right, maybe I should go do the 14 weeks of training at the ILEA, then I could get the benefit of all doubt. I know I'd be an expert after 3.5 months.

You know what my real problem is? You treat LEOs differently than all other "public servants", even those putting themselves in danger, such as Fireman. Even worse, non-public servants get no benefit of a doubt, even if they have far more training in their field. If a LEO is killed, you know a danger inherent in the job they chose, it is an absolute abhorrent tragedy to many....leading to over-enforcement, because god-forbid these people be in danger, again a part of their job.

Case-in-point on this? I SPECIFICALLY asked Arby about this awhile back, that if a LEO's death was more tragic than some others. He said it was more tragic than a military member, more so than an elected official, such as the president. If that doesn't show the irrationality on this, I really don't know what does.

14 weeks of training and we put them on a giant pedestal.

First of all, don't tell me I treat LEO different than other public servants. Coming from a family who's father has both served as a police officer and currently chief of a local fire department, I doubt you know anything about "How I view" public service and the inherent dangers associated with those professions.

Second, all death is tragic, but I think you can make an argument as the type of sympathny expressed to certain professions. You're right, a police officer is aware of the risks associated with the job, but when they are gunned down by some piece of shit, I think it's a bit more tragic than if say, they had a heart attack.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Of course. I'm hoping you don't ascribe to Arby's view that it is more tragic than a military member dying in the line of duty, or the POTUS.

I am talking about viewpoints, but you are right, I singled "you" out, instead of a generality.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Downtowns post was an example of that. He exaggerated the other 2 cops involvement in stopping the out of control cop. Didn't happen.

I think that if the other officer hadn't done what he did, the gun-officer would have continued, so I think it is reasonable to say that they stopped him.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I mean, hell, take a look at the thread title. "He deserves a medal".

Even if you believe he was justified, or that his actions weren't bad, or not over the top............why in the sam hell would he get a medal for this? This is demonstrative of the over-glorification/protection of LEOs that I am discussing. Some people actually think he deserves a medal.

WOB! WOB! WOB!

 

[DanL53]

Lit

I think that if the other officer hadn't done what he did, the gun-officer would have continued, so I think it is reasonable to say that they stopped him.

I agree with this, but will acknowledge it is a matter of opinion. When the two officers came running to assist Rambo Fife they had clearly seen reason to run his direction. My view, is that after Rambo's initial sloppy takedown of the girl four or more persons drew closer. (Way to escalate tensions Rambo, if you ever want to be a cop again, learn how to put someone on the ground!) So the crowd drew closer, and two cops saw that and moved to prevent further problems.

While on their way, Rambo drew his weapon and indeed the crowd was already moving back before he did. ONE of the two cops appeared concerned with Rambo's weapon being drawn and I think he placed his hand on Rambo's shoulder in preparation to try to put himself between the crowd and Rambo.

I may be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.

Anyway, reading some of the posts on this thread, it is pretty clear that sometimes agenda is coming before rational thought. It must be impossible for ONE cop to ever do a p..s poor job.

 

[clickhere 01]

I think that if the other officer hadn't done what he did, the gun-officer would have continued, so I think it is reasonable to say that they stopped him.

So, we went from 2 cops stopping him to 1 cop stopping him by what, putting a hand on his shoulder because they basically collided? LOL What did you think he might continue doing?

 

[theIowaHawk]

So, we went from 2 cops stopping him to 1 cop stopping him by what, putting a hand on his shoulder because they basically collided? LOL What did you think he might continue doing?

Is this serious?

 

[theIowaHawk]

WOB! WOB! WOB!

 

[Hawgk]

Does that mean something to you in this discussion? If so, what?

Is this a serious question? If so, how?

 

[BubsFinn]

I will agree with this. The video certainly appears to indicate that the officer is overreacting when he was running around after the kids.

The problem is, we only are seeing part of what occurred. We don't know exactly what he had already gone through to get to the point where the kids were cuffed on the ground. It is easy to imagine that he had already been dealing with uncooperative kids for quite a while at that poiint.

As far as him pulling his gun, that was ABSOLUTELY NOT an over reaction. He was being surrounded by a group of people and 2 males were approaching him somewhat quickly and one put his hand near his waist band. It is a very reasonable response for a cop to pull his gun once surrounded by numerous people like this and he believes he may be in danger.

I could not agree more. He had at least four people rush toward him in a very short time. Any reasonable human being can presume himself to be in serious danger when that happens. It is perfectly reasonable for him to assume one or both of those guys was going to attack him and try to take his weapon.

 

[HRiscool]

Lit


I agree with this, but will acknowledge it is a matter of opinion. When the two officers came running to assist Rambo Fife they had clearly seen reason to run his direction. My view, is that after Rambo's initial sloppy takedown of the girl four or more persons drew closer. (Way to escalate tensions Rambo, if you ever want to be a cop again, learn how to put someone on the ground!) So the crowd drew closer, and two cops saw that and moved to prevent further problems.

While on their way, Rambo drew his weapon and indeed the crowd was already moving back before he did. ONE of the two cops appeared concerned with Rambo's weapon being drawn and I think he placed his hand on Rambo's shoulder in preparation to try to put himself between the crowd and Rambo.

I may be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.

Anyway, reading some of the posts on this thread, it is pretty clear that sometimes agenda is coming before rational thought. It must be impossible for ONE cop to ever do a p..s poor job.

Hypocrite

 

[theIowaHawk]

I could not agree more. He had at least four people rush toward him in a very short time. Any reasonable human being can presume himself to be in serious danger when that happens. It is perfectly reasonable for him to assume one or both of those guys was going to attack him and try to take his weapon.

So you'd have been ok with any of the kids, or adults, having done so in the same situation?

(Obviously not to the cops)

You ok with the bikini'd girl pulling her gun on two buys rushing up to her? How about firing?

OR are we just more protective of the cops, because they are the "good guys"?

 

[BubsFinn]

If the bikini’d girl was obviously holding a gun and two guys rush up to her like they did the cop, yes, no problem with her drawing it.
As you can see from the video, the drawing of the weapon had the desired effect. The two aggressors immediately retreated. Had they continued to advance in such a provocative manor,I would have had no problem with the officer (or the bikini’d girl in your hypothetical) firing.
If these “kids” are too stupid to know not to rush a police officer, that’s their problem.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Pretty clear they retreated before any gun drawing. The two girls who ran up first stood tougher than the boys.

 

[Arbitr8]

So you'd have been ok with any of the kids, or adults, having done so in the same situation?

(Obviously not to the cops)

You ok with the bikini'd girl pulling her gun on two buys rushing up to her? How about firing?

OR are we just more protective of the cops, because they are the "good guys"?

It is clear you hate law enforcement but the question is why?