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Ronnie Harmon - Rose Bowl

So in the history of football, someone improving over the course of the game has never happened before. Especially in a big event like. THE ROSE BOWL. HELLLLLLOOOOOOOO IN THEREEEEEE.

Got it, good to know.
Certainly not what I said - that a player never improved over the course of a game - read the post. If you want to research, please find a fact, in the history of football how many All American football players (with no history of fumbling - 1 all year after 300 touches of the ball, then fumbles 4 times in less than 10 touches, and also dropped a sure TD pass in the biggest game of their life? Good luck with the research.
 
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Still find it curious how his performance improved over the course of the game that day after the 4 first half fumbles and UCLA had a big lead...
The damage was already done. UCLA had a big lead and played a soft zone. A perfect formula for Harmon to have have a lot of passes underneath that soft zone. He really should have been benched after the 2nd fumble.
 
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The damage was already done. UCLA had a big lead and played a soft zone. A perfect formula for Harmon to have have a lot of passes underneath that soft zone. He really should have been benched after the 2nd fumble.
You get my point - easy to get better and not have to worry.
 
Certainly not what I said - that a player never improved over the course of a game - read the post. If you want to research, please find a fact, in the history of football how many All American football players (with no history of fumbling - 1 all year after 300 touches of the ball, then fumbles 4 times in less than 10 touches, and also dropped a sure TD pass in the biggest game of their life? Good luck with the research.
That's the one that sticks in my craw. Rush for a thousand-plus yards and only lose one fumble. That's a good hands running back. Lose four in the Rose Bowl. Then there's the Norby Walters-Lloyd Bloom agents point. One was murdered and the other went to prison.
 
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The most common way Harmon's fumbles are explained away is that UCLA saw he carried the ball wide on film and went after it.

1. Every other team IOWA played saw that on film too...he had 400 carries over 2+ seasons before that Rose Bowl. Suggesting that UCLA was the first and only team to make that observation and successfully knock the ball loose is ludicrous.

2. Let's say that was the case... you'd think after the first or second fumble the light would go on and Harmon would protect the ball and/or certainly the coaches would talk to him about it. Harmon and everybody on the IOWA sideline just ignored it? ... again, hard to believe.

3. Show me another example where a guy had one turnover in an entire season and then 4 in a single game...a big game with lots of money being bet.

4. The wide open pass he dropped in the end zone was completely unforced.

5. I lived in IC at the time. It was no secret that Harmon saw himself as a big city guy amidst a bunch of rube farmers. He carried that attitude proudly. While none of us can read his mind, it's not hard to imagine that he might not have had the same sense of loyalty that a...Bill Happel or Larry Station, for example...would have.

6. It was his last game, he'd never have to practice with his teammates again. What better time to sell out.

We'll never know, barring a confession were it to be true...but my money is on Yes.
 
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I've got an email from ronnie, Jan 2, 1986 that he sent to me. He admitted the whole thang
The white parka with fur trim. designer sunglasses ala Liz Taylor, the scooters. Can't forget the Jeep Wagoneer. If you don't think Ronnie threw the game then I've got pond full of dolphins in the middle of Iowa that I'd like to sell to you

eF YOU, RONNIE
 
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According to this site, Ronnie fumbled 7 times in his NFL career and lost 4. That's on 615 rushes, 582 receptions and 76 kick returns for 1273 total touches. So the chance of him fumbling on any given touch is 7/1273= .55%.

Harmon had 11 receptions and 14 carries in the Rose Bowl. I don't know how many kick returns he had, but we'll assume 5 just to get a nice even number of 30 touches in the Rose Bowl. So there’s a roughly 15% chance he fumbles once in those 30 touches, .15^4=.0005. Statistically, there’s about a 1:2000 chance of Ronnie getting 30 touches in a game and fumbling 4 times. Somebody correct me if I got the math wrong, but yikes.

Crazy shit happens in football and he very well could have just had a bad game, but given his connections to the shady agent, I have to lean towards he probably did throw the game.
 
According to this site, Ronnie fumbled 7 times in his NFL career and lost 4. That's on 615 rushes, 582 receptions and 76 kick returns for 1273 total touches. So the chance of him fumbling on any given touch is 7/1273= .55%.

Harmon had 11 receptions and 14 carries in the Rose Bowl. I don't know how many kick returns he had, but we'll assume 5 just to get a nice even number of 30 touches in the Rose Bowl. So there’s a roughly 15% chance he fumbles once in those 30 touches, .15^4=.0005. Statistically, there’s about a 1:2000 chance of Ronnie getting 30 touches in a game and fumbling 4 times. Somebody correct me if I got the math wrong, but yikes.

Crazy shit happens in football and he very well could have just had a bad game, but given his connections to the shady agent, I have to lean towards he probably did throw the game.
Additional fun fact - he lost only 43% of his 7 fumbles in the NFL and 100% of his 4 in the Rose Bowl.
 
Additional fun fact - he lost only 43% of his 7 fumbles in the NFL and 100% of his 4 in the Rose Bowl.
Yeah, if you go by fumbles lost, the probability of him losing 4 fumbles in one game is about 1:15,000. That’s enough games that it would take playing in more than 1,000 college football seasons until he probabilistically has a game where he loses 4 fumbles.
 
Yeah, if you go by fumbles lost, the probability of him losing 4 fumbles in one game is about 1:15,000. That’s enough games that it would take playing in more than 1,000 college football seasons until he probabilistically has a game where he loses 4 fumbles.
And...that number goes up exponentially if you do the math on losing 4 fumbles in just two quarters of one game ;)!
 
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Hell yes he did. Numerous fumbles and a couple of blatant dropped passes.
There were two bad men from New York involved with betting and advance payments to football athletes.
These men were involved with death threats which if I recall involved Notre Dame and beat up a secretary working in the Notre Dame office The rumour was they threatened Ronnie Harmon and his family with death threats. Whether Ronnie and his family were threatened , I dont know . Ronnie would have known a bad performance would cost him a lot of money in the draft. Without Ronnie Harmon we would have not had the best season Iowa's had in 60 years
 
There were two bad men from New York involved with betting and advance payments to football athletes.
These men were involved with death threats which if I recall involved Notre Dame and beat up a secretary working in the Notre Dame office The rumour was they threatened Ronnie Harmon and his family with death threats. Whether Ronnie and his family were threatened , I dont know . Ronnie would have known a bad performance would cost him a lot of money in the draft. Without Ronnie Harmon we would have not had the best season Iowa's had in 60 years
This is a good operational example of why history frequently recalls only the last things one does in life.

The last thing Ronnie Harmon did was throw the last and most important game as a Hawkeye.

Moreover, why was a college student, on a full ride, running around with dangerous gamblers? Why didn't Ronnie report that to law enforcement? If a gangster wanted to guarantee the outcome they'd threaten to hit Chuck Long's family.
 
If a gangster wanted to guarantee the outcome they'd threaten to hit Chuck Long's family.
More likely a gangster would have much easier access to a much more vulnerable Ronnie.

There is almost no doubt in my mind Ronnie threw the game. I’ll never know the circumstances of why he did it, but I’m young enough to forgive him and recognize the good things he did for the program.
 
24-17 score in third quarter.

24-17 score in third quarter.
Ok here are the facts:

Score: 24-10 UCLA at the Half, Iowa scored on first Q3 drive to close to 24-17, then UCLA scores to make it 31-17 continuing to cushion the lead.

RH recap...

Three fumbles in Q1
#1: At UCLA 5 YL RH drops ball at 12:29
#2: Dick Enberg says right before the play "Iowa played in bad weather all year and those guys don't drop the ball" and RH makes the catch, runs and fumbles; at 1:06 in first
#3 as UCLA scores to go up 10-7, first play - easy catch, run and easy fumble by RH

One fumble in Q2
#4: Iowa driving into UCLA territory to try to tie the score at 17; 2:23 left on clock, easy catch, run and easy fumble by RH; UCLA drives to score, instead of a possible score of 17-17 at the half, now Iowa down 24-10.

One dropped pass in Q4:
With over 10 minutes left and down 38-17, Iowa still trying to make it a game, RH drops an perfectly thrown 35 yard pass from Long going into the end zone.
 
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Ok here are the facts:

Score: 24-10 UCLA at the Half, Iowa scored on first Q3 drive to close to 24-17, then UCLA scores to make it 31-17 continuing to cushion the lead.

RH recap...

Three fumbles in Q1
#1: Q1 - UCLA 5 YL RH drops ball at 12:29
#2: Dick Enberg says right before the play "Iowa played in bad weather all year and those guys don't drop the ball" and RH makes the catch, runs and fumbles; at 1:06 in first
#3 as UCLA scores to go up 10-7, first play - easy catch, run and easy fumble by RH

One fumble in Q2
#4: Iowa driving into UCLA territory to try to tie the score at 17; 2:23 left on clock, easy catch, run and easy fumble by RH; UCLA drives to score, instead of a possible score of 17-17 at the half, now Iowa down 24-10.

One dropped pass in Q4:
With over 10 minutes left and down 38-17, Iowa still trying to make it a game, RH drops an perfectly thrown 35 yard pass from Long going into the end zone.
I don't want to see a replay of that game. I was told that Larry Station hurt his back early and Barry Alvarez decided to leave him in. It affected his play, not in a good way. .When Hayden found out after the game he chewed out Alvarez.
 
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I don't want to see a replay of that game. I was told that Larry Station hurt his back early and Barry Alvarez decided to leave him in. It affected his play, not in a good way. .When Hayden found out after the game he chewed out Alvarez.
Good idea - don't watch the replay
 
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Season 9 Nbc GIF by The Office
 
The most common way Harmon's fumbles are explained away is that UCLA saw he carried the ball wide on film and went after it.

1. Every other team IOWA played saw that on film too...he had 400 carries over 2+ seasons before that Rose Bowl. Suggesting that UCLA was the first and only team to make that observation and successfully knock the ball loose is ludicrous.

2. Let's say that was the case... you'd think after the first or second fumble the light would go on and Harmon would protect the ball and/or certainly the coaches would talk to him about it. Harmon and everybody on the IOWA sideline just ignored it? ... again, hard to believe.

3. Show me another example where a guy had one turnover in an entire season and then 4 in a single game...a big game with lots of money being bet.

4. The wide open pass he dropped in the end zone was completely unforced.

5. I lived in IC at the time. It was no secret that Harmon saw himself as a big city guy amidst a bunch of rube farmers. He carried that attitude proudly. While none of us can read his mind, it's not hard to imagine that he might not have had the same sense of loyalty that a...Bill Happel or Larry Station, for example...would have.

6. It was his last game, he'd never have to practice with his teammates again. What better time to sell out.

We'll never know, barring a confession were it to be true...but my money is on Yes.
I disagree. That game is replayed every once in a while on the Big Ten network. The officials didn’t have the ability to review plays back then. If they did two of those fumbles would be overturned for sure. One was on a running play where his knee was down before the ball came out and another was a pass play where he never had possession of the ball but it was called a fumble. You will see it if you watch the game. As for the reference that he rarely fumbled that season, he certainly did have a habit of carrying the ball away from the body and it caught up to him that day. Anyway, we lost that game primarily because our defense couldn’t stop them.
 
Damn. I did not know that a Mercedes ran 64k back then. It would be interesting to see the film on Mitchell at the Rose Bowl.

As the trial of his erstwhile agents approached its second week, Harmon and his former Iowa teammate, Detroit Lions defensive back Devon Mitchell, did their part in the continued destruction of the mystique surrounding the student-athlete. They had help from testimony supplied by New England Patriots running back Robert Perryman (Michigan) and Pittsburgh Steelers defensive back Rob Woodson (Purdue).

Despite taking courses in bowling, billiards, tennis, jogging and karate -- and in football -- neither Harmon nor Mitchell came close to the 2.0 grade-point average required by the Big Ten Conference, according to testimony. Both, however, continued to play football through their senior year and into the 1986 Rose Bowl -- where Harmon fumbled four times, the most of any game in his career, in a 45-28 loss to UCLA. Despite attempts by the defense to keep the jury focused on questionable ethics in the NCAA, it was Harmon's tape recording of his meeting with the agents, Norby Walters and Lloyd Bloom, that provided the week's drama. Walters, 58, and Bloom, 29, pleaded not guilty to charges of mail fraud, conspiracy, racketeering and extortion in their representation of 41 football players and two basketball players; all black, many poor.

Whether the low grades reported by Bloom's lawyer, onetime Chicago U.S. Attorney Dan K. Webb, were accurate -- Big Ten lawyer Byron Gregory told reporters they were not -- not even the defense disputed what was heard as Harmon's tape was played. Dressed in a tailored gray suit that made his athlete's shoulders look even broader, Harmon, 24, sat passively as he listened again to the spiel Walters delivered to him and his father in March 1985 in the family's Brooklyn home. With a raspy eloquence that told of his own Brooklyn roots, Walters explained his rationale for asking Harmon to sign with him nine months before NCAA rules said he could. "I know who these people are," Walters said on the tape. "I know the ones that are willing to make the deals and I know the ones who are willing to take the cash -- can you dig it? Because that's what America is all about . . . Anyplace you want to go, to the cop on the beat . . . to the guy who fixes a ticket, to the governments who give money to . . . the Lockheed companies and the Boeing companies that pay off governments to get the deals. Am I right or wrong?" Walters asked. "You're right. Everybody's doing it," Harmon's father replied. If the running back would sign on that late winter day, Walters said, "I'm willing to come up with a few thousand dollars, cash American, for Ronnie so that he has it to do with as he pleases -- to give it to the family, to take care of some mortgage payments, to live his life {and} from now until the day that he starts playing {professional} ball, I will make sure that there's a telegram out there in Iowa or wherever he is, that each first of the month he'll go there and there'll be $250 sitting there waiting for him, so that Ronnie Harmon can lead a middle-class, interesting kind of a life without having to have Dad send him $100 a month or $50 or $75." At one point, Harmon's father interrupted, saying, "A rule is a rule, it's just like that . . . They got rules." "Yeah," Walters replied. "It's just like the income tax . . . the name of the game is that we don't give them their money unless we have to." And so it went.

When Walters made the pronouncement, "This is your lucky day," however, he couldn't have known that some of Harmon's luck would come at Walters' expense. Harmon testified that he received more than $64,000 from his agents before he dumped them, a few days before he signed with the Bills in August 1986. That included a $29,000 down payment on a $64,000 Mercedes. Walters and Bloom then filed suit against Harmon. They settled for a repayment of $5,500. As the case progresses, witnesses could include several other present or former NFL players, including Ronnie Morris of the Chicago Bears and Brent Fullwood of the Green Bay Packers. Also among the witnesses who might testify is the Rev. Theodore Hesburgh, the former president of Notre Dame.

The prominent names mentioned in the indictment of so-called "clean" schools such as Notre Dame, Iowa, Michigan and Purdue support the apparent defense strategy. Webb and Bloom's lawyer, New York white-collar-crime specialist Robert Gold, haven't denied wrongdoing by the agents. Rather, they seem intent on proving that unethical and illegal behavior is rife among the schools of the NCAA, which represents nearly all major collegiate athletic programs. The reported illegal behavior, however, doesn't involve just mishandled funds. The defendants also are accused of threats. Perryman testified that when he turned down an offer by Bloom to sign a new contract that would conceal the earlier deal, Bloom threatened to tell all to Michigan football coach Bo Schembechler, "and the Big Ten championship could be invalid." Before the trial began, prosecutors charged that Bloom and Walters threatened athletes who tried to break their contracts by reminding them that they need legs to carry their bodies across the football field. The trial has become of interest not only to sports fans and observers of organized crime, but to those who follow Midwestern jurisprudence. It marks the first time Webb has tried a case against his former colleague and successor as U.S. attorney, Anton Valukas. Both earned reputations as aggressive prosecutors.

 
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I disagree. That game is replayed every once in a while on the Big Ten network. The officials didn’t have the ability to review plays back then. If they did two of those fumbles would be overturned for sure. One was on a running play where his knee was down before the ball came out and another was a pass play where he never had possession of the ball but it was called a fumble. You will see it if you watch the game. As for the reference that he rarely fumbled that season, he certainly did have a habit of carrying the ball away from the body and it caught up to him that day. Anyway, we lost that game primarily because our defense couldn’t stop them.

Here are some videos of the 4 first half fumbles.













You can argue that a couple of them would have been overruled, but I'm not sure I agree,

But I don't know know how anyone can argue with the point that those fumbles came out of his hands VERY easily. I don't see any secret fumble-causing action by UCLA.

The man has hands the size of softball gloves. He didn't drop passes and didn't fumble, until .......
 
I wish some of his teammates would come out and give an opinion. Or if they had any conversations on the subject with Ronnie after the game. Or did they know? Was Ronnie threatened and they were in the know?
 
No.

He always carried the ball like a loaf of bread and UCLA said afterwards they noticed that on film and were focused on trying to strip the ball from him.

On top of that Eric Ball ran for over 200 yards and the defense game up 45 points. Harmon was far from the only problem that day.
If you have a player who was one of your stalwarts all season, dependable in every way and then in the biggest game of collegiate career, he suddenly become Freddy Fumbles and drops passes he never had a problem with before. Plus, there were those nasty allegations of his dalliance with professional gamblers. I just think he cashed in early. Broke my friggin' heart, it did! Didn't seem to bother him a whit.
 
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Here are some videos of the 4 first half fumbles.













You can argue that a couple of them would have been overruled, but I'm not sure I agree,

But I don't know know how anyone can argue with the point that those fumbles came out of his hands VERY easily. I don't see any secret fumble-causing action by UCLA.

The man has hands the size of softball gloves. He didn't drop passes and didn't fumble, until .......
I've never seen those clips until now. I wasn't even born and only heard the stories, etc.

It's pretty obvious he threw the game just by watching those clips. Hell...3 of those the ball just shot out of his hand like he was barely holding on. It like he was waiting for someone to get close so it didn't look completely obvious.

A person doesn't even know the math/ probability, his hand size, his history of not fumbling before, or even that he was involved with some bad dudes. Just watching the clips is enough to know he threw the game
 
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As a witness to the game and seeing Harmon over the course of a great career - hell yes he fumbled intentionally … So disappointing … and helps explain why he never has - nor will be - invited back to the campus …
He has been an honorary captain.
 
As a witness to the game and seeing Harmon over the course of a great career - hell yes he fumbled intentionally … So disappointing … and helps explain why he never has - nor will be - invited back to the campus …
Hayden absolutely defended Ronnie and never wavered.
 
I've never seen those clips until now. I wasn't even born and only heard the stories, etc.

It's pretty obvious he threw the game just by watching those clips. Hell...3 of those the ball just shot out of his hand like he was barely holding on. It like he was waiting for someone to get close so it didn't look completely obvious.

A person doesn't even know the math/ probability, his hand size, his history of not fumbling before, or even that he was involved with some bad dudes. Just watching the clips is enough to know he threw the game
Might as well show you this one too.


 
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