For all the young guys learning to defend on the ball, off the ball, ball screens etc......takes time. Little stiff?? He's just a skilled offensive player. He is strong with the ball, can penetrate and find open teammates, and he can shoot it in. Shot selection may be an issue early on as he heard from coach a couple of times but he shoots it well for a newcomer. He looked very savvy and confident! Wagner is fast, strong, and athletic. Seems to have picked things up better than a couple of other guys. Offensively he doesn't shoot it great yet from the perimeter. His defender gave him lots of room. If they pressure up into him he can definitely blow by his defender!! Seems he's on the edge as far as playing time right now but has a chance to see some minutes? Moss struggled on this day but clearly has some talent. Hutton needs to improve offensively but is a competitor! Not sure what position he'll play? Is he a wing or forward? Not skilled enough for one and too small for other?? I thought Williams has potential as a Pt. Tall and long! Not a great shooter but man if he gets better he could be a real gem at the point. Year away? Dale Jones has to play but played zone only in JC so is behind defensively. Didn't shoot much but I know he can! Ellingson was out with concussion?
Uhl is much bigger! Uthoff was really good!!!! Wow can he shoot! Kind of a quiet team............will need to find some vocal leaders. Most vocal this day was Ukah. He gave the others an ear full a couple of times
Rotation & Who is going to Redshirt?
- Thread starter JRHawk2003
- Start date
Hutton and Williams are the only 2 guys I haven't heard Fran mention specifically in press conferences recently. Jones, Wagner, Fleming, Moss I've heard him single out for praise. Brady Ellingson of course can't RS. But I've heard Fran mention BE and even Baer. Not Hutton or Williams recently. Williams seems like he would handle a RS better than Hutton. He's one that acts just happy to be here and willing to do whatever the coaches think he should. Hutton I think wants to contribute this year. That's how his competitive nature comes out.
Thanks for the report PV. I think your assessment is a good one of the young players. I agree that Hutton is a 'tweener and he may be the guy who is without a position. I don't think the coach would want him shooting the ball too much from the outside and taking shots away from the better shooters we have on the team. If someone redshirts, I think it's him. Next would be Williams, but I agree that his upside is really high.
Fran said today that Williams doesn't want to redshirt, and that he doesn't think he wants to redshirt him because he wants to get him PG experience. I agree with those who say Hutton is the most likely. Although Hutton can play a lot of different positions defensively, he seems like a 3 on offense. Not tall enough to to play the 4 and not a good enough shooter to play the 2. But Uthoff will likely get 35+ mins in the games that matter so that doesn't leave much time for Hutton. Moss would be my second choice at redshirt, mostly because of showing up late, but Fran did mention that he looked the best of the newcomers a few days ago. Ultimately, Moss may be too good to sit this year. Besides, Hutton could use a year to work on his offense. If he develops an offensive game to go along with his defense, he could be scary good.
good post...yes Fran did mention that about Williams... who redshirt's is starting to give me a headache
...so with Williams saying he doesn't want to redshirt...I'm wondering...didn't Fran at one time say if a player doesn't want to redshirt...he honors that..
I trust that the coaches will make the right decisions, and I agree that Hutton and Williams are the most likely candidates. If a player does not want to redshirt, I suspect that Fran would have a discussion with him, explain why he thinks redshirting would be best for the player and the team, but then honor whatever the player wants to do. Playing time is going to be tough to earn for the new players.good post...yes Fran did mention that about Williams... who redshirt's is starting to give me a headache
so with Williams saying he doesn't want to redshirt...I'm wondering...didn't Fran at one time say if a player doesn't want to redshirt...he honors that..
I understand after Brady had medical redshirt last year that puts us with 6 scholarship players in one class, but redshirting one of them then puts us with 5 scholarship players in back to back classes, not much of a better situation.
If they can help us win today, this season. Then let them play.
If they can help us win today, this season. Then let them play.
When asked which fellow freshmen players jump out to him, Andrew Fleming says:Watched practice earlier this week. Only freshmen who looks ready to contribute right away is Fleming. He didn't as good in drills but when they played "live"....he's a player! Can shoot, create, and pass the ball. Needs to improve defensively however. Wagner looked like the other who may get some early minutes. Good strong athlete.........knows his role and didn't try to do too much. Other freshmen will need more time to figure things out............some were pretty lost out there. In time they will be good
"I think Isaiah (Moss) is really good," he shared. "He's really shifty and can make a lot of stuff happen. Ahmad (Wagner) is already impressing the coaches with how well he can screen. In film, he's really good. He's setting screens on guys and getting guys open. Brandon (Hutton) plays really hard on defense. We have a ton of good guyson our team. I'm really looking forward to it."
http://www.scout.com/college/iowa/story/1599853-freshman-andrew-fleming-won-t-turn-down-shots
Fran was asked about redshirting Williams at media days. Said they have discussed it and Williams doesn't want to, but they'll explore it going forward.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind seeing Coach McCaffrey redshirt a couple of the freshmen. If they aren't going to see any meaningful minutes this year, but have the tools to contribute in the future, why waste a year sitting on the bench like Gabe did? Besides, if we, god forbid, have a rash of injuries later on, he can still pull the redshirt.
I went back and forth on this, but I really agree with having Williams play this year. Even if it is only around 7-8 mpg, getting that experience will be helpful come next year when the only other pg will be a true freshman.
That being said, I really think redshirting someone will be a must as 6 guys in one class (including Brady) is just too many. I think Hutton makes the best candidate as he is really athletic yet a little unrefined at this point. His position is also one that is not going to see much time this year with Jok, Uthoff, Wagner, Clemmons, and possibly Fleming all playing the 2/3 spot.
I think that Fleming and Wagner will be key players off the bench as well as Jones.
That being said, I really think redshirting someone will be a must as 6 guys in one class (including Brady) is just too many. I think Hutton makes the best candidate as he is really athletic yet a little unrefined at this point. His position is also one that is not going to see much time this year with Jok, Uthoff, Wagner, Clemmons, and possibly Fleming all playing the 2/3 spot.
I think that Fleming and Wagner will be key players off the bench as well as Jones.
I think the truth is one of the newcomers will roll an ankle or get some type of injury and that guy then will probably redshirt. Simple as that. I think the least likely to redshirt is Williams because he is going to be our starting pg next year and he needs to get some minutes.
Barring injury I would say the most likely to redshirt are Hutton/Moss. Moss is such a talent but he is way behind.
Barring injury I would say the most likely to redshirt are Hutton/Moss. Moss is such a talent but he is way behind.
The fact of the matter is 1-2 of the young guys are likely to transfer just for lack of minutes available. Play them all and let the cream rise to the top.
I hate to lose any of them but this is a class size problem which will take care of itself. Fran and company are continually recruitung so 1-2 schollys will move on down the line to future classes.
I hate to lose any of them but this is a class size problem which will take care of itself. Fran and company are continually recruitung so 1-2 schollys will move on down the line to future classes.
My guess is it plays out like this.....we maybe do get a redshirt, maybe not...nothing is determined. At the end of the season maybe somebody transfers, maybe not. Personally I think it will be two seasons before most guys decide if they have no role on the team or not.
Anybody does leave, we recruit somebody else.
There is no one on this team that I want to see go. We have room for all of them. But I get it if they want more playing time. And, we are really lucky as guys may have the opportunity to redshirt. But if they do or not...they are way better off than Gesell, Clemmons and Woody were when they were tossed into the fire as true freshmen.
I'm still ticked about Valentine being honored with the chance to officiate an Iowa game!!!
Anybody does leave, we recruit somebody else.
There is no one on this team that I want to see go. We have room for all of them. But I get it if they want more playing time. And, we are really lucky as guys may have the opportunity to redshirt. But if they do or not...they are way better off than Gesell, Clemmons and Woody were when they were tossed into the fire as true freshmen.
I'm still ticked about Valentine being honored with the chance to officiate an Iowa game!!!
The return of Teddy V to the conference really highlights the fundamentally resort oriented nature of the B1G.
Don't know if at Carver or somewhere else. Skydog referred to this tweet from Scott Dochterman:
"A couple of interesting notes today. One, Iowa will red-shirt an undetermined player. Two, TV Teddy will officiate an Iowa Big Ten game."
That's all I know.
don't think he would get a very good reception at CHA...it will probably be at MichSt...
don't think he would get a very good reception at CHA...it will probably be at MichSt...
I don't know if I can stand another game like Michigan State in the Big Ten Tournament. That (insert worst names I can call him) cost us an NCAA invite and nobody is going to convince me he won't screw us over again. I don't understand, did he get clemency after a two year no Iowa game ban? As far as I'm concerned I don't want him anywhere near the Hawkeyes.
I still think part of the "collapse" the next year was delayed PTSD from Valentine (insert doing something really, really bad) to the Hawkeyes.
As long as that (insert more name calling...maniacal and over the top screaming while name calling) is an official, I'll never believe that College Basketball is entirely not rigged.
Could almost redshirt 2. Williams then either Hutton or Wagner.
I think Moss is gonna be too good to redshirt.
I think Moss is gonna be too good to redshirt.
I got to agree with DanL --that B10 tourney game against MSU officiated by Valentine stands as one of the biggest screw jobs I have witnessed in the past 10 years. After the game, Izzo all but admitted that they did not deserve the win. Izzo knew, though, that he could lean on Valentine to get calls in his favor down the stretch. What a farce.
Dale Jones is as much a wing as Hutton and Moss... Hutton looked 10x better than Jones in PTL. He more than doubled Jones in PPG and as has already been mentioned Hutton is lockdown defender. No way they redshirt him and I don't think Jones plays as much as people expect. I have followed a lot of the basketball players from Waterloo and Jones is great, but he isn't a Top 5 player from Waterloo in the last 10 years... Trashon Montegomery, Trayvonn Wright, John Puk, Jaron Nash just off the top of my head... Jones was solid, but if anyone is expecting a huge impact from him they are overestimating his abilities... Ukah did just as well as Jones in PTL and he was a JUCO who never saw the floor at Iowa except in clean up time.
That depends considerably. If we are going against a smaller, quicker inside lineup(which we will see in about half our games. Smaller anyhow), then we go zone with Woody. And man-to-man without him.
There are a lot of teams that won't play a 7 footer, or other true 5, for too many minutes. Or they simply do not have someone that big that is worth the minutes. UCONN won the title with playing mostly a shorter lineup. ISU has been that way the entire time with Freddie.
It doesn't take a Big to play Fran ball. Especially a team this long.... I wish they measured wingspan. We would be in the top 3 of the B1G. I guarantee you we would.
Max, I generally enjoy your input. However, if you're trying to base who gets playing time or who's ahead of whom based on PTL performance...that's crazy talk.
Fran has said that Jones has been a fantastic rebounder and has done a nice job defensively, so I think saying he's as much a wing as Hutton/Moss is a stretch. And while Hutton will likely be a lockdown defender at some point, I don't know how you can say for certain that he will be able to be one right away against some of the best teams in the country.
As far as PPG in the PTL...
Jones is bigger and somewhat more basketball experienced. JUCOs are always a crap shoot coming into the season. Jones really cannot redshirt so you think if he's got a B1G game at all he's going to play.
I agree, if the plan is for Williams to take the point...no way he redshirts.
Where are you getting these numbers? Hopefully not from the cumulative stats file on the PTL website. Every individuals per game percentages in that file were calculated based on the number of games the team played, not the individual. Jones missed several games, but rather than dividing his total points by 4 (4 games played) to calculate his per game scoring average, they calculated it by dividing his total points by the seven games the team played. Many of the per game averages in that file are understated, the more games a player missed, the more understated the average.
I got them from the PTL website. I didn't follow the PTL at all and never really do, but I figured they would have enough common sense to do stats based on games played. Just another reason most people consider it a joke. I am sure Dale is better than he was in high school, but I've always viewed him as a lower ceiling version of Draymond Green. Maybe like Marcus Landry from Wisconsin... Jones has a little better range though. Something of that sort. Haven't seen him since high school, but I will watch some highlights and see if his changed a lot.
Knowing those stats are not very accurate probably means he has improved offensively since high school, so maybe he will have a larger impact than I think.
Of the few highlights I see from JUCO... His shot hasn't improved that much. He has a great shot with a smooth stroke and high release, but he has barely any lift and a slow release. Playing with the big boys of the Defensive Juggernaut that is the Big Ten it will be hard for him to consistently get open enough for a good look on the perimeter without being contested hard. Someone like Nigel Hayes or Jake Layman would give him struggles all day trying to get solid shots inside and out.
He is going to need other players to create off the dribble for a pick and pop style of play for him to get solid looks. He still looks athletic and moves well for 6'8, but he is going to need to rely on aggressiveness to be a successful B10 rebounder. He could be a Melvin Ejim style on the boards or he could be a Joey King.
Of the few highlights I see from JUCO... His shot hasn't improved that much. He has a great shot with a smooth stroke and high release, but he has barely any lift and a slow release. Playing with the big boys of the Defensive Juggernaut that is the Big Ten it will be hard for him to consistently get open enough for a good look on the perimeter without being contested hard. Someone like Nigel Hayes or Jake Layman would give him struggles all day trying to get solid shots inside and out.
He is going to need other players to create off the dribble for a pick and pop style of play for him to get solid looks. He still looks athletic and moves well for 6'8, but he is going to need to rely on aggressiveness to be a successful B10 rebounder. He could be a Melvin Ejim style on the boards or he could be a Joey King.
Possibility of freshman redshirting from least to most likely IMO.
Moss, Flemming, Wagner, Hutton, Williams.
I wouldn't be surprised if no one does. Redshirting a player when they don't want to is a good way to lose them.
I could see Hutton especially being pissed off.
This is not like a Gabe Olesasni situation where there was no good reason for him to even be in a game as a freshman. Wasting a year of his eligibility might be the biggest regret Fran will have as Iowas coach.
Moss, Flemming, Wagner, Hutton, Williams.
I wouldn't be surprised if no one does. Redshirting a player when they don't want to is a good way to lose them.
I could see Hutton especially being pissed off.
This is not like a Gabe Olesasni situation where there was no good reason for him to even be in a game as a freshman. Wasting a year of his eligibility might be the biggest regret Fran will have as Iowas coach.
Fran has already said he will redshirt someone. He just hasn't announced it yet in case of an injury. Listening to the OnIowa podcast, it sounds like it will be Hutton or Williams. Fleming and Moss seem ready to contribute. Wagner is necessary because we are thin inside.
I think the poster that saw Dale Jones in high school is forgetting that he grew several inches after HS. A mediocre 6'5" guy can suddenly become legit at 6'8". And he redshirted as a Juco so he's basically like a college senior at this point.
I think the poster that saw Dale Jones in high school is forgetting that he grew several inches after HS. A mediocre 6'5" guy can suddenly become legit at 6'8". And he redshirted as a Juco so he's basically like a college senior at this point.
Assume coach has the team of wing players and runners that he has never had...
This type of style requires lots of energy and fresh bodies.
MG and Woodie have both worn down and become tweaked in the past...they need some help, less minutes to preserve them.
Lots of minutes out there...the unknown will be which players can play hard and contribute, even a bit, and remain energized and content with their role.
Keeping players hungry and motivated and improving in addition to having team cohesion is an art...
I think this the first time the coach has some depth and talent to toy with...and work his trade.
Should be interesting...and fun.
This type of style requires lots of energy and fresh bodies.
MG and Woodie have both worn down and become tweaked in the past...they need some help, less minutes to preserve them.
Lots of minutes out there...the unknown will be which players can play hard and contribute, even a bit, and remain energized and content with their role.
Keeping players hungry and motivated and improving in addition to having team cohesion is an art...
I think this the first time the coach has some depth and talent to toy with...and work his trade.
Should be interesting...and fun.
Gabe will be 24yrs old in December...it was time for him to move on and begin his pro career. On paper redshirting him made some sense, but realistically playing him right away was the correct thing to do in the long run.
As far as I know there is no age limit. His age is really irrelevant as far as Iowa is concerned IMO and obviously it goes with out saying he would have been a huge benefit.
If he had a year left of eligibility I doubt he would have chosen to leave.
He could have just as easily stayed and greatly improved his position for a pro career the next season.
Even if he had choose to leave after last year his first year was still a waste. He was totally lost.
I'm not speaking from Iowa's perspective, of course they would like to have a talented post player available to play. I speaking from his perspective, you don't find too many 24yr old players in college unless they went on a mission or were held back for academic reasons growing up. He would be 2 or 3 years older than most seniors if he was around this year. I know there is no age limit, but basketball players do have a shelf life. I'm not sure another year of college basketball would have 'greatly' improved his NBA prospects; he can learn, gain experience and earn a living overseas doing just that.
You also don't find many players in college that started playing so late in life.
Whether or not he would have choose to stay given another year, and I'm pretty sue he would have, but that's just my guess, his first year was worthless.
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