RTC cup
- Thread starter Chips28
- Start date
I really have no idea and this is 100% a guess, but I don’t think there’s the best relationship between Iowa and Flo. Iowa just had the HWC Showdown and went straight to Trackwrestling. I doubt Flo is a fan of that move. Also, Tom made some comments on the Stalemates podcast that other events only want Spencer and he didn’t like that. Again, this is me guessing, but I think that was probably Flo. Tom telling Flo no on Spencer probably doesn’t make them happy. Tom also mentioned Iowa (more specifically Brooks) getting snubbed by Flo in a different event.
The only thing Iowa and Flo agree on is “Terry”
Pyles stock has went down considerably since the trial with Willie.
Pyles stock has went down considerably since the trial with Willie.
There is no reason the HWC or NLWC to participate at this time. They both have their own thing going as far as streamed events
Like him or hate him, Flo is a much inferior product without Willie. Other than the films they produce, which are top quality, they come off as very amateurish. Suing the former face of the company? What a douche bag move.
My guess is since the NLWC & HWC hosted events on other platforms than flo they might not of been invited or since the Willy debacle want nothing to do with CP & flo.
So the two biggest teams(both in rankings and viewership) in wrestling opt out of this event, and your immediate response is that they aren't about wrestling? Very odd conclusion... The NLWC would be a heavy, heavy favorite to win the Cup. So why aren't they competing? Dig a little deeper here and ask yourself what might be some of the reasons, because "not very wrestling of Iowa or PSU" certainly isn't it.
Does the fact that Iowa's team would primarily be college wrestlers become an issue with compliance? Would they even be able to cash out on any of the payments if they were to win?🤷♂️🤷♂️
Do the NLWC and HWC see much more benefit hosting their own events through Rokfin and Track, maintaining control of the match-ups, revenue, compliance, and yes even health, of their teams?
Do PSU and Iowa see Flo as trying to make a power play/money grab on RTC's and don't want to give up control/value/revenue of their own teams?
Do they foresee negative consequences of RTC's possibly morphing into a "Pro" league in regards to the current college/RTC relationship and don't want to jeopardize that format?
Is it something more?
I don't know if any of the above are true or just bs, just some random thoughts that I had on the situation....
All that I know is that it isn't because Iowa and PSU are "not very wrestling".
This. I’m not going to claim to be a rules guru but once school starts, compliance runs the show. There are a boatload of rules regarding these events and I guarantee you compliance green lights everything. My gut tells me it was not a coincidence HWC event pitted Iowa vs Iowa or Iowa vs SR Non Collegiate guys.
Lol you are unsure but took the time to write all that. College kids are competing in it, so it’s not about compliance. Iowa is hosting another event, but this would’ve been a golden opportunity to get matches. Again this goes back to competing which it what it should be about.
Yeah. I thought some of the topics could generate some discussion. Isn't that what these boards are for?
Per an episode of FRL, it was about compliance for at least one RTC. They specifically said that a RTC could not enter because of compliance issues. I have no idea if it was Iowa or not. The point is that compliance is not the same across all universities.
I can understand this viewpoint, even if I don't fully agree with it. There are absolutely many positives to taking part in an event like that, for the HWC, athletes, and fans. I was just trying to get you to think about some other possible reasons as to why they are not participating.
Just some thoughts--I wont get into a debate on any of it.
#1 Compliance controls a LOT-- and it IS different at many Universities
#2 Coach has had issues with some things Flo says but his overall relationship is good.
#3 HWC showdown 1 was held in Iowa City-- It would not have happened if not.
#4 Covid cases have spiked-- HWC Showdown #2 planning is on "hold"
#1 Compliance controls a LOT-- and it IS different at many Universities
#2 Coach has had issues with some things Flo says but his overall relationship is good.
#3 HWC showdown 1 was held in Iowa City-- It would not have happened if not.
#4 Covid cases have spiked-- HWC Showdown #2 planning is on "hold"
Thanks for the info! Sucks to hear about #4. Hopefully, things work out as Showdown #1 was an awesome event, and was really looking forward to #2.
If I had my way Iowa would wrestle 2 meets per week 12 months out of the year, but I take what I can get. I gladly paid the money for the last HWC event and it delivered. I don't go to the movies or out to eat any more, so I have a little pocket change to dedicate to future HWC events.
As far as the Club Cup goes, at first it sounds like a great idea but after thinking about it, I would rather do events where DD and TNT are free to choose who we compete against. I'd rather see events that challenge us than see us wrestle a club that someone else picks. If our coaches want to wrestle an entire club team, they can work that out, but it leaves us free to book top talent, which is what made Showdown #1 so great.
If our guys want to be the best, wrestling potential cupcakes is not the answer. Kem and AD learned a lot more in their matches at the HWC event than if they wrestled some random club guy that is a potential pushover. If an outside interest is booking matches, who knows what the matches will look like. Our coaches proved they are going to challenge our guys and that's a formula that worked and it's fine by me.
As far as the Club Cup goes, at first it sounds like a great idea but after thinking about it, I would rather do events where DD and TNT are free to choose who we compete against. I'd rather see events that challenge us than see us wrestle a club that someone else picks. If our coaches want to wrestle an entire club team, they can work that out, but it leaves us free to book top talent, which is what made Showdown #1 so great.
If our guys want to be the best, wrestling potential cupcakes is not the answer. Kem and AD learned a lot more in their matches at the HWC event than if they wrestled some random club guy that is a potential pushover. If an outside interest is booking matches, who knows what the matches will look like. Our coaches proved they are going to challenge our guys and that's a formula that worked and it's fine by me.
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You may not, but Flo is proving to be less economically viable without Willie. And they know it.
Have you seen the club cup rosters? They teams are absolutely stacked. Very confused what you’re talking about.
This has to be true, With them having mini tournaments and club tournaments worth hundreds of thousand of dollars, plus they sign a coverage contract with the UWW.
take or leave it Flo‘s coverage is expanding the sport and allowing fans like myself to watch more wrestling! I will maintain a subscription until there is something better, which I don’t see.
People still think a dude with 20k followers is going to take down the biggest wrestling website/supporter. It's truly unbelievable at this point
I’m not sure what you are referring to honestly, all I know is they have good wrestling coverage. I hope they have Better Competitors soon! Track is ok
Willie had a non compete clause in his contract I'm pretty sure and Flo is suing him because he broke it
Oh the Willie thing I was wondering where that guy was. This what happens when lawyers get involved.
Agreed. However, this lawsuit didn’t have good optics because much of it was on display for the wrestling world (h/t Stalemates). Big guy against the little guy.
Like him or not, Willie was the everyman voice at Flo. So the guy may only have 20,000 followers but it was enough for Flo to go after him and Rofkin. I am all for Rofkin or other entities to step up...great for the consumer. It took the folks in Chicago to slap together an event plus Rofkin and Track’s events to really light a fire under their ass.
If Flo continues to churn out content, they will be just fine on that side of the house but they might need a few new faces and voices after this is done.
Are they really? You are looking at the finished product, best case scenario. Going in to this, when HWC would have had to commit, would we be assured of who we were facing? The line up's don't get set until you have all the teams in, even then you never know. If you look at the possible wrestlers at each weight for each team, some of these guys are not name brand guys.
When you sign up for something like this, it's out of your control. No offense, but I am not all that interested in watching the bull take on Elroy Perkins or Spencer wrestle Dylan Ragusin or Warner wrestle Timmy McCall - even though he did go 3-2 at NCAAs back in '15. Not sure I call that "absolutely stacked".
Based on the last event, I trust the coaches to book their own, vs turning it over to someone else.
Lol, nice cherry picking. Those guys are the backups (Ragusin and McCall to Micic and Mike Mach) except for maybe Elroy Perkins since the Gopher RTC is borrowing Wick.
I’m sure Brands/HWC has valid reasons for declining. But I’m also sure the fear of not getting good competition wasn’t one of them
Ragusin is a better matchup than Zach Sanders and we all had to watch that one.
Warner just wrestled Glazier for goodness sakes. Mccall is a WTT qualifier and placed at Senior US opens.
So the worst possible matchups that you could find are better than the last match for both Spencer and Warner. This is completely ignoring the fact that Spencer could have Vito, Mueller, Micic and bull could face Dake, Mekhi, Massa.
Here you are proving my point " Spencer could have Vito, Mueller, Micic and bull could face Dake, Mekhi, Massa." And you are also ignoring the fact that, at a point when HWC would have had to commit, these line-ups were unknown. Who knows, maybe HWC agrees to this and Cyclone WC decides to jump in too and we end up with our studs vs. clowns. It's easy to make a judgement after the fact. When you're a leader, these are things you need to be aware of before you agree to something.
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You seemed to have glossed over that my initial post was about how I looked at it and how I would have chosen the DIY route, I never said HWC chose this route for a particular reason. You seem to be implying that my statement is the reason I think TNT/HWC chose to decline FLO, I have no idea why they declined, other than what Randy posted. This was my opinion and since Iowa has chosen to book their own event, as a business owner, I would have done the same thing. Plus, you are only seeing the competition after the fact, it always an easy call at that point. Bet you could pick all of last nights lotto numbers today too.
One more point I would like to mention on the uncertainty of who you might wrestle and where. One of the big beefs with a lot of teams about the NWCA National Duals, came down to who some 3rd party decided to match you up with.
You might recall that there was a lot of rumors about Tom wanting more control over that. Now I don't know what was true and what wasn't, mainly because my memory is crap, but it seems to me that there are things out of your control that you have to deal with, Big10 Schedule, NCAA and Big10 tourny match-up etc.. So when it's something you feel is "free-time" or open space on your schedule, it seems, to me, that Tom likes to control that. The results have been great matches at Edinboro, Princeton and the event at Kent State, which was a great warm up for our guys. The HWC also did this at last months event, which turned out pretty good.
So while I am not saying this is a reason why we are not in the FLO event, it's not too much of a stretch to think having this control is something on the minds of the powers that be at HWC.
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Yes and will be more before Friday.With Covid and contract tracing it's gonna happen
I'm pretty amped, but this is starting to feel like the old National Duals at the UNI Dome (which I loved, except for one poor experience). While any wrestling is @&^$ing awesome, I have a feeling some marquee matches will be shuffled away from, or heavy hitters will have to pull out (as they have been).
The hope and amp was for a 10 event. I'm going in expecting like a 7 or 8 now. I just hope they don't give us a 3 or a 4.
The hope and amp was for a 10 event. I'm going in expecting like a 7 or 8 now. I just hope they don't give us a 3 or a 4.
Without Willie they come off as amateurish? Are you implying that Willie has come off as professional at some point in his career?
I know he has had a tumultuous relationship on this board and said some silly things. I have always found him to be an incredibly insightful, knowledgeable, accessible , and hard working guy. Dude is passionate and does a lot for the sport of wrestling. Flo is an inferior product without him.
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I think Flo Wrestling has taken a big hit to their "reputation" in the last year. However I think your right on being better economically. Wrestling has kind of been their stand alone content producer for Flo. The other sports they carry haven't generated a lot of subscriptions I would guess up until this last year. Flo Racing has blown up this year. I would argue and this is opinion but the subscriptions brought in by Racing are close to equal what they have in wrestling. If they indeed are going to lose the B1G which as I understand is rumor at this point Racing may pass the Wrestling side of things.
Yes it is not true that Flo is better than ever. I don’t know anything about their other sports verticals, but the wrestling one is hurting.
