Russian Invasion YESTERDAY! - How Did It Go?

[Joes Place]

As a result, NATO, an alliance created to counter the Soviets, moved hundreds of miles closer to Moscow, directly bordering Russia. And in 2008, it stated that it planned — some day — to enroll Ukraine, though that is still seen as a far-off prospect.

NATO is not an "offensive" alliance.
Ergo, repeating the Kremlin talking points on this is simply serving to push their propaganda.

Those countries, who were fully controlled by Russia, no longer want to be subservient pawns. It's WHY they joined NATO, to prevent invasion and re-acquisition by Russia.

The Russian stance on this is fully illogical UNLESS you understand that Russia wants to fully re-control those independent nations.

That should not be "normalized", and it's exactly what Putin's goal is here: normalize the control of satellite countries by his oligarchs.

 

[SI_NYC]

So they held military exercises like they announced they would in December (and in smaller scale than they held last September), but our propaganda organs insisted (over the voices of Ukrainians downplaying the threat) that the Dread Pirate Putin was about to invade and they scared him away.

You believe this was all about military exercises? Come on man.

 

[alaskanseminole]

NATO is not an "offensive" alliance.
Ergo, repeating the Kremlin talking points on this is simply serving to push their propaganda.

Those countries, who were fully controlled by Russia, no longer want to be subservient pawns. It's WHY they joined NATO, to prevent invasion and re-acquisition by Russia.

The Russian stance on this is fully illogical UNLESS you understand that Russia wants to fully re-control those independent nations.

That should not be "normalized", and it's exactly what Putin's goal is here: normalize the control of satellite countries by his oligarchs.

Where did you take "counter" to mean "offensive"?

 

[BlIIlken2]

they must be lost on their withdrawal.

 

[seminole97]

You believe this was all about military exercises? Come on man.

I believe a lot of propaganda is made for domestic consumption.
I believe the article I linked in this thread (and others you can find if you’ll look) demonstrate the Russians planned military exercises at this time and declared them months ago.
I believe another article I linked in this thread demonstrates the Russians held exercises last September with 200k troops in Belarus and near the Ukrainian border without the same White House hysteria generated for domestic consumption.
I believe the leaders of the foreign nations most loudly beating the war drums in the U.K. and U.S. are particularly unpopular at home.

What do you believe?
Do you believe Saddam had WMD?
Or that we’re helping Saudi Arabia usher democracy into Yemen with our regime change efforts there?

Our foreign policy makes the most sense if you think the priority is arms sales. Otherwise, you can really get tripped up thinking it’s about ‘human rights’, or some other sappy sales pitch.
Don’t believe it.
War is a racket.

 

[BlIIlken2]

 

[Joes Place]

Where did you take "counter" to mean "offensive"?

I don't

That's Putin's narrative.

 

[seminole97]

NATO is not an "offensive" alliance.

Did Serbia attack any NATO countries before NATO began a 78 day bombing campaign and partitioned the country in the absence of any UN authority?

Did Libya attack any NATO countries before NATO began a bombing campaign to assist rebels in overthrowing the UN recognized government and casting that nation into a civil war that persists to this day?

 

[Joes Place]

Did Serbia attack any NATO countries before NATO began a 78 day bombing campaign and partitioned the country in the absence of any UN authority?

You got a boner for humanitarian atrocities, bud?

Because NATO wasn't attacking a sovereign nation "minding its own business" there. Nor did NATO countries "take over" the area.

 

[SI_NYC]

I believe a lot of propaganda is made for domestic consumption.
I believe the article I linked in this thread (and others you can find if you’ll look) demonstrate the Russians planned military exercises at this time and declared them months ago.
I believe another article I linked in this thread demonstrates the Russians held exercises last September with 200k troops in Belarus and near the Ukrainian border without the same White House hysteria generated for domestic consumption.
I believe the leaders of the foreign nations most loudly beating the war drums in the U.K. and U.S. are particularly unpopular at home.

What do you believe?
Do you believe Saddam had WMD?
Or that we’re helping Saudi Arabia usher democracy into Yemen with our regime change efforts there?

Our foreign policy makes the most sense if you think the priority is arms sales. Otherwise, you can really get tripped up thinking it’s about ‘human rights’, or some other sappy sales pitch.
Don’t believe it.
War is a racket.

The US, nor the UK want a war with Russia. Putin was testing NATO by trying to break alliances, like he always does.

 

[Joes Place]

The US, nor the UK want a war with Russia. Putin was testing NATO by trying to break alliances, like he always does.

He wants a "new Iron Curtain", controlled by his oligarch buddies.

Same reason he tried to prop Trump up in the WH; probably was helping call shots on overturning the election. Because once he topples a major democracy and turns it into another autocracy/oligarch, more will follow.

It was this political "structure" that led to both WWI and WWII; autocracies either fighting one another, or trying to take over other sovereign nations and resources. Elected democracies aren't as prone to starting major wars, because the people who vote for their representatives aren't the benefactors in wartime.

 

[bhawk24bob]

I can't be the only one finding comedy in how long it's taking russia to mobilize

 

[Joes Place]

I can't be the only one finding comedy in how long it's taking russia to mobilize

Did you look at a map, to see how far some of those Russian units traveled to get there?

 

[seminole97]

You got a boner for humanitarian atrocities, bud?

If I did I'd look at what my country is helping the Gulf Monarchies do to Yemen.

Because NATO wasn't attacking a sovereign nation "minding its own business" there.

You asserted "NATO is not an "offensive" alliance."
Did Serbia or Libya attack a NATO member?
It initiated offensives against both the UN recognized government of Serbia and Libya.

Nor did NATO countries "take over" the area.

KFOR has been occupying Kosovo for over two decades.
Did you not know this?

 

[torbee]

Less than 2 hours to go!

 

[Joes Place]

If I did I'd look at what my country is helping the Gulf Monarchies do to Yemen.

We're hooked on the oils, yo.

If those things are a problem for you, then you should be advocating the types of initiatives like Build Back Better to scale up renewables in this country and eliminate the need for Saudi oil on world markets.

 

[Joes Place]

KFOR has been occupying Kosovo for over two decades.
Did you not know this?

Occupying? No.

They are not "running the government". You have an odd definition of "occupation"; prevent anarchy isn't an "occupation"

 

[GES4]

Did Serbia attack any NATO countries before NATO began a 78 day bombing campaign and partitioned the country in the absence of any UN authority?

Did Libya attack any NATO countries before NATO began a bombing campaign to assist rebels in overthrowing the UN recognized government and casting that nation into a civil war that persists to this day?

Serbia was just sitting there minding its own business when NATO came along.

 

[GES4]

I can't be the only one finding comedy in how long it's taking russia to mobilize

Do you know what mobilize means in this context?

 

[seminole97]

Serbia was just sitting there minding its own business when NATO came along.

It was fighting separatist Muslims in Kosovo, but it wasn’t attacking any NATO countries.

Greece, Spain, Slovakia and Romania still refuse to acknowledge the partition of the country. Those are NATO members.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I can't be the only one finding comedy in how long it's taking russia to mobilize

Czarist Russia took 4-6 weeks to completely mobilize for WW1 with a crappy train system, horse drawn transport and troops marching to attack positions…millions of troops

 

[GES4]

It was fighting separatist Muslims in Kosovo, but it wasn’t attacking any NATO countries.

Greece, Spain, Slovakia and Romania still refuse to acknowledge the partition of the country. Those are NATO members.

You just going to tip toe past the war crimes? I have the receipts.

 

[seminole97]

Occupying? No.

They are not "running the government". You have an odd definition of "occupation"; prevent anarchy isn't an "occupation"

We’ve been ‘nation building’ in Kosovo for over two decades, and your comment shows me you had no idea.

You could have googled “KFOR” and learned that, but you just keep doing you.

 

[GES4]

Czarist Russia took 4 weeks completely mobilize for WW1 with a crappy train system, horse drawn transport and troops marching to attack positions…millions o troops

And how did that work out?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

And how did that work out?

Not too good….for the Russians. Might have saved France though. Germans shifted an extra corps to the eastern front because the Russians launched their attack before they were completely mobilized.

 

[GES4]

Not too good….for the Russians. Might have saved France though. Germans shifted an extra corps to the eastern front because the Russians launched their attack before they were completely mobilized.

Russian cannon fodder is constantly saving Allies bacon.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Russian cannon fodder is constantly saving Allies bacon.

Some truth in that

 

[h-hawk]

Czarist Russia took 4-6 weeks to completely mobilize for WW1 with a crappy train system, horse drawn transport and troops marching to attack positions…millions of troops

And Putin couldn't mobilize too quickly or his "maneuvers" cover story would not hold water.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

And Putin couldn't mobilize too quickly or his "maneuvers" cover story would not hold water.

Either that or he’s bluffing for concessions

 

[Joes Place]

You just going to tip toe past the war crimes? I have the receipts.

Yep

He is.

In the entirety of its history, he's got two (weak) examples.

Meanwhile, for Russia and the Soviet Union, we've got well north of a dozen. And those were actual invasions and takeovers.

 

[Joes Place]

We’ve been ‘nation building’ in Kosovo for over two decades

It's not remotely what Putin and the Soviets did, and you know that.

 

[seminole97]

You just going to tip toe past the war crimes? I have the receipts.

U.N. didn't authorize the use of force in Yugoslavia.
Is there an article in the treaty they stipulates NATO involve itself in foreign wars?

Article 1​

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.

 

[BlIIlken2]

 

[HawkeyeGenius]

Then there is this. Looks like a reason for Russian action in their mind.

Putin baselessly claims 'genocide' is happening in areas of Ukraine controlled by Kremlin-backed rebels

Putin's comments came as Russia said that it was pulling back some of its troops from Ukraine's border — a claim met with skepticism by the West.

www.google.com

 

[seminole97]

View embedded media

Is that true?

https://www.president.gov.ua/en

 

[BlIIlken2]

Is that true?

https://www.president.gov.ua/en

It was. Sites have been hit and miss.

 

[bdg8]

 

[torbee]

OP lied.

No one died.

 

[seminole97]

We're hooked on the oils, yo.

They can't eat it.
They sell it.
We don't need to help them starve Yemenis to buy it.

It's simply not an excuse considering all the other nations that buy oil without directly contributing weapons to regime change invasions by tyrants that starve children.

If those things are a problem for you, then you should be advocating the types of initiatives like Build Back Better to scale up renewables in this country and eliminate the need for Saudi oil on world markets.

I don't share your faith in trusting Biden and Co. to find more Solyndras to run off with half a billion dollars.
I'd rather quit subsidizing foreign oil with the Pentagon and let profits drive investment where people demonstrate demand.

 

[BrunoMars420]

Invasion is IMMINENT!!