Saudi Arabia: 'We've seen the pain' and we don't care
- Thread starter The Tradition
- Start date
How so? The Saudis have the ability to set the price for world crude. They are doing so for their own advantage. Their sweet crude is much more in demand than our dirty sand oil.......and costs almost half as much. Right now, the Saudi's have the advantage. They can effectively eliminate competition by producing their bountiful product and placing it on the world market.
What does the acronym OPEC stand for? Research it, look it up, read all about it and then flip to the section on free markets. If you can't effectively compare and contrast the two, then see your advisor about getting your degree in Communications.
I haven't figured out if you are being purposely obtuse OR if you are so dense that whatever's fits into your little simpleton world is all you feel should be allowed into the discussion. Far cry from the tolerant person you espouse on these boards.
Nice argument. SA is "unleashing" pure capitalism, unfettered by moral or legal constraints. Freedom for businesses to operate without government interference is exactly what conservatives constantly argue for.
Someone will always be there to pick up the pieces. As natural has said the oil will still in the ground. With technology the cost of extraction gets cheaper also. I will never feel sorry for oil companies
The take from this is that we ought not have to be influenced so much by a foreign country economically.
If only there was a way to rid ourselves of the influence of SA.
Any ideas on how we might accomplish this?
If only there was a way to rid ourselves of the influence of SA.
Any ideas on how we might accomplish this?
Look, for all the morons who don't understand what the Saudis' end game is, pay attention, I'm only going to explain this one time:
Once enough western competitors are knocked off so as to limit the ability to ramp up production (with helpful assists from Obama), OPEC will jack up the price to $200 a barrel and earn back everything they lost and more. Meanwhile, we'll have an "energy crisis" that makes 1973 look like a minor inconvenience.
Once enough western competitors are knocked off so as to limit the ability to ramp up production (with helpful assists from Obama), OPEC will jack up the price to $200 a barrel and earn back everything they lost and more. Meanwhile, we'll have an "energy crisis" that makes 1973 look like a minor inconvenience.
Look, for all the morons who don't understand what the Saudis' end game is, pay attention, I'm only going to explain this one time:
Once enough western competitors are knocked off so as to limit the ability to ramp up production (with helpful assists from Obama), OPEC will jack up the price to $200 a barrel and earn back everything they lost and more. Meanwhile, we'll have an "energy crisis" that makes 1973 look like a minor inconvenience.
Look, for all the morons who don't understand what the Saudis' end game is, pay attention, I'm only going to explain this one time:
Once enough western competitors are knocked off so as to limit the ability to ramp up production (with helpful assists from Obama), OPEC will jack up the price to $200 a barrel and earn back everything they lost and more. Meanwhile, we'll have an "energy crisis" that makes 1973 look like a minor inconvenience.
So....low prices are bad. And high prices are bad. This really sucks...
Yup. We need the ability to flood the market when they pull back so that they can't have as much influence on price.
Hard to do that when Obozo is standing in the way of increased capacity.
This thread really needs to go to the Legends, due to its epic stupidity of how free markets work....
You're right, it's not a free market when government treasuries are being drained to put private companies out of business.
So I ask again, what do you want to do about it? Should we bomb or embargo SA? That would be government intervention. Should we subsidize our more expensive drilling operations either directly or by allowing them to skirt environmental or labor rules? That be government intervention. You're just whining. Every solution involves government intervention. You're a socialist now too.
Relaxing Byzantine rules is the opposite of government intervention. Good grief.
STRATEGICALLY, we need to create conditions so that western oil companies can counter the influence of the cartel on oil prices.
No, you told us in another thread that an oil company's right to pollute stopped where my well water started. Those regulations protect liberty. Now you want to pass the cost on to the public for cheap oil. Cheap oil we are already getting. Your philosophy is showing some holes.
Now describe this strategic creation of conditions that doesn't require the government to intervene.
Exactly.
Saudi Arabia is STILL making money off their oil; they are just not making as much per barrel as they were before. And Iran is now coming online w/ the nukes treaty, so that's another factor driving prices lower.
If you WANT to make them irrelevant, push for a carbon-neutral economy; a massive infrastructure project of 400ft wind towers, solar, and thorium nuclear power. When no one needs their oil, that entire area of the planet becomes a desert wasteland; they have no manufacturing base and not much else to offer.
For all you know, the Saudis aren't even really targeting the US at all, and are trying to hurt the Iranians just as they are able to sell w/o sanctions on their oil; an Iran/Saudi price war would keep prices low for a fairly long time.
This is just freaking hilarious how a certain poster is all about 'GOP free markets' when it suits him, and all about 'price controls and regulation' when it's convenient. Might be time for a new screen name, because the stupidity here is almost unRIVAL(S)ed (pun intended).
Damn...you should just STOP. Nothing can force companies to pump oil out of the ground and sell it at a loss. There is NO capacity in the US that can be exploited with prices this low. We could flood the market RIGHT NOW...we have the capacity RIGHT NOW. But you would have the oil companies go bankrupt selling fracked oil at a fraction of what it costs to get it out of the ground?
Genius! Go tell them to do just that.
Saudi Arabia isn't immune from the pain of low oil prices. The country's sovereign credit ratings were cut to "A+/A-1" from "AA-/A-1+" by the credit-rating company Standard and Poor's.
In a release, S&P said a "pronounced negative swing" in Saudi Arabia's fiscal balance prompted the downgrade.
Over the 10 years that ended in 2013, S&P noted that Saudi Arabia's budget surpluses — or money available after all government expenses had been met — averaged about 13% of gross domestic product. This situation, however, has changed rapidly as the price of oil has crashed, and in 2015 Saudi Arabia is expected to see a budget deficit equal to 16% of GDP.
For those of you who never took an economics class, that means that they used to make money, and now they're losing money. They are running government deficits to maintain this price war.
Ramp up support for an electric car infrastructure. Increase CAFE standards. Slap a tax on Chevy Sudivisions and their ilk. Add a gasoline tax that's tied to the price of oil so it increases as gas prices fall and vice-versa.
Lots we could do....but won't.
We don't have the capacity right now. You already told us it was near full capacity.
THe Saudi's are playing the "free market" game to their advantage. That is what businesses do. They have the product that everyone prefers. They sell it as they see fit. Tell me what business does it differently. Why do Titleist's cost $48/dozen? Because, they can get it. If they went on sale next week for $20/dozen....that is their business decision. More people will buy them at $20/dozen. THat is the way predatory businesses keep competition at bay.....America has a long and distinguished history of this type of business practice.
This analogy would only be valid if the government was reimbursing Titleist for their lost profits in their attempt to drive Top Flight out of business.
That's what a free market allows to happen. How would you want to prevent this?
Your economic analysis is also poor. Simply running a total government budget deficit doesn't mean they are actually losing money selling their oil. It just means they aren't making enough from oil and all other revenues to cover all their expenses.
Stop. Posting.
For your own good.
That was a discussion about tar sands. In Canada. Another country. That has nothing to do with what the US has the capacity to do.
This is an assault on all non-OPEC countries. Not just the U.S. So, Canada and the U.S. could rightfully work together to counter the cartel's market manipulation, of just pay whatever OPEC wants to charge.
So the Saudi's shouldn't run their business as is most profitable for them? It makes no difference who owns what, the reality is it is what it is. They are using this fact to their advantage. That is the way of business. They have their oil...we have our prescription medicines.
What is valid about my argument is that I am dealing in the real world here. The Saudi's can do whatever they want to do with their oil. Right now, they are choosing to keep the price cheap. It has a lot of benefits for the customers of their product.
The Golden Rule of Business...Those with the gold, rule. Saudi's have the gold in this case.
SHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let Trad figure it out for himself. Meanwhile, just keep giving him more rope.
The House of Saud is screwing the other OPEC countries too, you know. This has nothing to do with OPEC and everything to do with Saudi market share.
When you have state-owned businesses forming cartels against the rest of the world, then the rest of the world needs to be doing something to counter the cartel.
This all started when the fracking boom happened. Suddenly, the production balance shifted. The Saudis and their OPEC co-conspirators ramped up production to drive down prices and put this new threat out of business. They are also encouraged by Obama's lack of interest in increasing capacity. This means we (North America) won't have a way to respond when they pull back production to cause prices to spike.
We're being set up for a huge fall and you people are defending it.
Obviously, when other governments are attacking us, that would be an appropriate time for government solutions. I doubt anybody would have suggested that the Ford Corporation go to war against Japan in WWII.
So Trad...what do you expect the Saudi's to do? They are doing exactly what any business does.......Follow the rules and use these rules to their advantage. As my father told me (often)..."Life isn't always fair." Deal with it.
LOL...so we INCREASED production to the point that SA felt compelled to flood the market with cheap oil yet we're in this position because of Obama's lack of interest in increasing capacity on top of the increased capacity that caused the Saudis to act. Seriously, are you drunk?
We're actually trying to point out that you defend it all the time with your economic policies. You are now clamoring for fair trade policies to replace free trade policies. We are pointing out that means you will need to change your economic philosophies. Keep walking towards the light, there are hugs here for you.
I'm as sober as a judge.
Your misguided policies to force oil to stay in the ground will come back to haunt us. We need to have the capacity to respond to future threats, but you and your CO2-headed buddies want to tie our hands behind our collective backs.
