ADVERTISEMENT

School shooting in Michigan

On the morning of Tuesday’s shooting, the suspect’s parents were urgently called to Oxford High School after one of his teachers found an alarming note he had drawn, scrawled with images of a gun, a person who had been shot, a laughing emoji and the words “Blood everywhere” and “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”

School officials told the parents during the in-person meeting that they were required to seek counseling for their son, Ethan, Ms. McDonald said. The teenager’s parents did not want their son to be removed from school that day



In an earlier time that kid gets committed to an institution for the safety of the society.


Since the deinstitutionalization movement of the 1960s, civil commitment in the United States almost always requires a finding of dangerousness -- both imminent and physical -- as determined by a judge. Most of the rest of the world has more reasonable standards -- you might almost call them "common sense" -- allowing family, friends and even acquaintances to petition for involuntarily commitment, with the final decision made by doctors.

The result of our laissez-faire approach to dangerous psychotics is visible in the swarms of homeless people on our streets, crazy people in our prison populations and the prevalence of mass shootings.

According to a 2002 report by Central Institute of Mental Health for the European Union, the number of involuntarily detained mental patients, per 100,000 people, in other countries looks like this:

  • Austria, 175
  • Finland, 218
  • Germany, 175
  • Sweden, 114
  • England, 93
The absolute maximum number of mental patients per 100,000 people who could possibly be institutionalized by the state in the U.S. -- voluntarily or involuntarily -- is: 17. Yes, according to the Treatment Advocacy Center, there are a grand total of 17 psychiatric beds even available, not necessarily being used. In 1955, there were 340.
There is no doubt more funding and focus needs to be put on treating and managing mental illness. But many of those who are in power pay it little attention. Still, there are still measures to involuntarily commit people.

The laws governing involuntary commitment vary from country to country and state to state, but, in general, laws restrict involuntary commitment to those who are mentally ill and/or under the influence of drugs or alcohol and are deemed to be in imminent danger of harming themselves or others. In the United States, the maximum initial time for involuntary commitment is usually 3 to 5 days.

Thus, if the police are called to a location, for whatever reason, and observe an individual meeting the above requirements, they may take him or her to a psychiatric ward. There, the individual will be assessed by a psychiatrist, and, if determined to be in need of involuntary commitment based on local law, will be held and treated against his or her will. (It should be noted that people cannot be committed just because others deem their actions to be "bizarre" or "crazy.")

If the individual is not discharged on or before the 3 to 5 day limit because additional treatment is necessary, a court order may be sought to extend the involuntary commitment. The patient has a right to seek counsel and fight the involuntary commitment at this juncture if so desired.
 
There is no doubt more funding and focus needs to be put on treating and managing mental illness. But many of those who are in power pay it little attention. Still, there are still measures to involuntarily commit people.

The laws governing involuntary commitment vary from country to country and state to state, but, in general, laws restrict involuntary commitment to those who are mentally ill and/or under the influence of drugs or alcohol and are deemed to be in imminent danger of harming themselves or others. In the United States, the maximum initial time for involuntary commitment is usually 3 to 5 days.

Thus, if the police are called to a location, for whatever reason, and observe an individual meeting the above requirements, they may take him or her to a psychiatric ward. There, the individual will be assessed by a psychiatrist, and, if determined to be in need of involuntary commitment based on local law, will be held and treated against his or her will. (It should be noted that people cannot be committed just because others deem their actions to be "bizarre" or "crazy.")

If the individual is not discharged on or before the 3 to 5 day limit because additional treatment is necessary, a court order may be sought to extend the involuntary commitment. The patient has a right to seek counsel and fight the involuntary commitment at this juncture if so desired.
Familiar with that.
My wife used to run the Behavioral Health Unit at our local hospital where the involuntary commits go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: billanole
Everything is political. Smh

Everything has been made political. Killing school kids shouldn't be. A gun in every backpack. A gun for birthday gifts. AR 15s for vigilante hunt downs.

It didn't used to be like this. The world was a better, safer place before the gun nuts turned it into a war zone. Screw the mentally ill bullshit. It's the kill syndrome associated with the gun community. Bullets come from guns, not brains.
 
Everything has been made political. Killing school kids shouldn't be. A gun in every backpack. A gun for birthday gifts. AR 15s for vigilante hunt downs.

It didn't used to be like this. The world was a better, safer place before the gun nuts turned it into a war zone. Screw the mentally ill bullshit. It's the kill syndrome associated with the gun community. Bullets come from guns, not brains.
Omg clueless! I got a rifle and shotgun for my tenth birthday. My friends had them too. Kept mine in my closet, kids use to mount them in their trucks and you could see them in school parking lots. Time to bring back insane asylums maybe???
 
Omg clueless! I got a rifle and shotgun for my tenth birthday. My friends had them too. Kept mine in my closet, kids use to mount them in their trucks and you could see them in school parking lots. Time to bring back insane asylums maybe???

You miss my point. And this is where the gun argument breaks down. The hunting scenario is often a pretext and justification for ownership. Thousands of people are killed by guns each year. It has little to do with hunting. And it's not necessarily a major city phenomenon. You are statistically more certain to be involved in a deadly shooting in the states of Georgia, Alabama or Tennessee than the cities of New York City, or Los Angeles.

It's not insanity. It's culture run amuck. And, you probably didn't get a semi-automatic pistol at the age of 14.

Additionally, I'm guessing your parents weren't political radicals.
 
Kids parents seem checked out. Severe depression and access to fire arms. What could go wrong.

Prosecutors say school shooter Ethan Crumbley’s parents show ‘chilling lack of remorse’ after manslaughter convictions​

Lauren del Valle and Christina Maxouris, CNN
Wed, April 3, 2024 at 10:10 PM CDT·5 min read

9acf1f0eb0c418ece1b0e715d2572689


In newly filed court documents, Michigan prosecutors are asking a judge to sentence the parents of school shooter Ethan Crumbley to at least 10 years in prison, alleging they have both showed a “chilling lack of remorse” after they were convicted for involuntary manslaughter.

In two separate sentencing memorandums dated April 3, Oakland County prosecutors asked the judge to sentence each parent to 10 to 15 years in state prison.

The prosecutors allege Crumbley’s father has repeatedly threatened Prosecuting Attorney Karen McDonald and has said “there will be retribution,” while the mother has asked to serve her sentence under house arrest in her defense attorney’s home.

James and Jennifer Crumbley were both found guilty on four counts of involuntary manslaughter in two separate trials this year for their roles in their son’s mass shooting at Oxford High School on November 30, 2021. Jurors found they were both grossly negligent in allowing their teenage son to have a gun and ignoring signs of his spiraling mental health. Ethan, who was 15 at the time, killed four classmates – Madisyn Baldwin, 17; Tate Myre, 16; Hana St. Juliana, 14; and Justin Shilling, 17 – and injured seven other people.

His parents have been behind bars since they were arrested in December 2021 at a Detroit warehouse after leading authorities on a manhunt following the school shooting.

They are scheduled to be sentenced on Tuesday. Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley’s defense attorney, did not comment when reached by CNN.

CNN also reached out to an attorney for James Crumbley but has not heard back. Defense pre-sentencing submissions have not yet been filed on the public dockets.

Court documents allege threats, lack of remorse​

In a rare move, prosecutors released excerpts of the pre-sentencing investigation reports publicly, and included statements from both defendants written after jurors found them culpable for the killings.

In the prosecution’s sentencing memorandum for James Crumbley, prosecutors noted “his jail calls show a total lack of remorse, he blames everyone but himself, and he threatened the elected Prosecutor.” They also note the father has repeatedly said he is being persecuted and has referred to himself as a “martyr.”

“After he could no longer express his threats through jail calls because his privileges were revoked, he chose to gesture his middle finger toward the prosecution in the middle of the trial,” the memorandum says.

In a pre-sentence investigation report completed this week, James Crumbley wrote he feels “absolutely horrible/am (devastated) for what happened,” and that he would “give anything to go back and do something different that would have changed what (happened).”

In that report, he argues he should be released from prison after the time he has already served, noting “I am wrongly accused, and now wrongly convicted of Involuntary Manslaughter.”

“Ethan always appeared to be a very stable individual. Never did he voice anything to me that anything was bothering him,’” James Crumbley wrote. He later added: “I followed the law and took gun safety to the point as needed. My gun was hidden in a location that, until I found out differently, only I knew of.”

In James Crumbley’s trial, jurors found he was grossly negligent because he bought the gun for his son just days before Ethan used it in the attack, did not properly secure it and did not take “reasonable care” to prevent the foreseeable danger. In text messages presented in court, Ethan wrote to a friend he was hearing people talking to him and messaged, “I actually asked my dad to take (me) to the Doctor yesterday but he just gave me some pills and told me to ‘Suck it up.’”

“Like it’s at the point that I am asking to got [sic] the doctor. My mom laughed when I told her,” Ethan said in the messages.

In the sentencing memorandum for Jennifer Crumbley, prosecutors pointed to statements she made on the stand during her trial, where she testified, “I’ve asked myself if I would have done anything differently, and I wouldn’t have.”

“This was not even the first time that defendant made these types of statements,” prosecutors wrote in the memorandum. “In one of her jail calls she previously stated, “I wouldn’t do anything different.”

In her pre-sentence report, Jennifer Crumbley acknowledged she testified she wouldn’t have done anything different but said “that is true without the benefit of hindsight that I have now.”

“With the information I have now, of course my answer would be hugely different,” she said, according to the report. “There are so many things that I would change if I could go back in time. I knew my son to be a quiet, good kind, who loved his pets. I never imagined he would hurt other people in the way that he did.”

“I have been in jail for over 26 months and have been locked down 23 hours per day,” she added. “I am hopeful the Court will sentence me in a way that allows me to be released for the balance of my sentence. I do have an Oakland County address where I could live and be placed on a tether with house arrest.”

Jennifer Crumbley asked that she be placed under house arrest in her defense attorney’s home, according to prosecutors. Smith, her attorney, notified the court that Crumbley could stay in her guest house for the duration of her sentence, according to the memorandum.

“Such a proposed sentence is a slap in the face to the severity of tragedy caused by defendant’s gross negligence, the victims and their families, and the applicable law that is premised on the concept of proportionate sentencing.”
 
Saw this yesterday. And there are people who look at that and still don’t believe we have some sort of gun problem.
Yes, just look at what these evil guns turned these thriving citizens into! Pssssssst....not prisons where they belong......

 

Prosecutors say school shooter Ethan Crumbley’s parents show ‘chilling lack of remorse’ after manslaughter convictions​

Lauren del Valle and Christina Maxouris, CNN
Wed, April 3, 2024 at 10:10 PM CDT·5 min read

9acf1f0eb0c418ece1b0e715d2572689


In newly filed court documents, Michigan prosecutors are asking a judge to sentence the parents of school shooter Ethan Crumbley to at least 10 years in prison, alleging they have both showed a “chilling lack of remorse” after they were convicted for involuntary manslaughter.

In two separate sentencing memorandums dated April 3, Oakland County prosecutors asked the judge to sentence each parent to 10 to 15 years in state prison.

The prosecutors allege Crumbley’s father has repeatedly threatened Prosecuting Attorney Karen McDonald and has said “there will be retribution,” while the mother has asked to serve her sentence under house arrest in her defense attorney’s home.

James and Jennifer Crumbley were both found guilty on four counts of involuntary manslaughter in two separate trials this year for their roles in their son’s mass shooting at Oxford High School on November 30, 2021. Jurors found they were both grossly negligent in allowing their teenage son to have a gun and ignoring signs of his spiraling mental health. Ethan, who was 15 at the time, killed four classmates – Madisyn Baldwin, 17; Tate Myre, 16; Hana St. Juliana, 14; and Justin Shilling, 17 – and injured seven other people.

His parents have been behind bars since they were arrested in December 2021 at a Detroit warehouse after leading authorities on a manhunt following the school shooting.

They are scheduled to be sentenced on Tuesday. Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley’s defense attorney, did not comment when reached by CNN.

CNN also reached out to an attorney for James Crumbley but has not heard back. Defense pre-sentencing submissions have not yet been filed on the public dockets.

Court documents allege threats, lack of remorse​

In a rare move, prosecutors released excerpts of the pre-sentencing investigation reports publicly, and included statements from both defendants written after jurors found them culpable for the killings.

In the prosecution’s sentencing memorandum for James Crumbley, prosecutors noted “his jail calls show a total lack of remorse, he blames everyone but himself, and he threatened the elected Prosecutor.” They also note the father has repeatedly said he is being persecuted and has referred to himself as a “martyr.”

“After he could no longer express his threats through jail calls because his privileges were revoked, he chose to gesture his middle finger toward the prosecution in the middle of the trial,” the memorandum says.

In a pre-sentence investigation report completed this week, James Crumbley wrote he feels “absolutely horrible/am (devastated) for what happened,” and that he would “give anything to go back and do something different that would have changed what (happened).”

In that report, he argues he should be released from prison after the time he has already served, noting “I am wrongly accused, and now wrongly convicted of Involuntary Manslaughter.”

“Ethan always appeared to be a very stable individual. Never did he voice anything to me that anything was bothering him,’” James Crumbley wrote. He later added: “I followed the law and took gun safety to the point as needed. My gun was hidden in a location that, until I found out differently, only I knew of.”

In James Crumbley’s trial, jurors found he was grossly negligent because he bought the gun for his son just days before Ethan used it in the attack, did not properly secure it and did not take “reasonable care” to prevent the foreseeable danger. In text messages presented in court, Ethan wrote to a friend he was hearing people talking to him and messaged, “I actually asked my dad to take (me) to the Doctor yesterday but he just gave me some pills and told me to ‘Suck it up.’”

“Like it’s at the point that I am asking to got [sic] the doctor. My mom laughed when I told her,” Ethan said in the messages.

In the sentencing memorandum for Jennifer Crumbley, prosecutors pointed to statements she made on the stand during her trial, where she testified, “I’ve asked myself if I would have done anything differently, and I wouldn’t have.”

“This was not even the first time that defendant made these types of statements,” prosecutors wrote in the memorandum. “In one of her jail calls she previously stated, “I wouldn’t do anything different.”

In her pre-sentence report, Jennifer Crumbley acknowledged she testified she wouldn’t have done anything different but said “that is true without the benefit of hindsight that I have now.”

“With the information I have now, of course my answer would be hugely different,” she said, according to the report. “There are so many things that I would change if I could go back in time. I knew my son to be a quiet, good kind, who loved his pets. I never imagined he would hurt other people in the way that he did.”

“I have been in jail for over 26 months and have been locked down 23 hours per day,” she added. “I am hopeful the Court will sentence me in a way that allows me to be released for the balance of my sentence. I do have an Oakland County address where I could live and be placed on a tether with house arrest.”

Jennifer Crumbley asked that she be placed under house arrest in her defense attorney’s home, according to prosecutors. Smith, her attorney, notified the court that Crumbley could stay in her guest house for the duration of her sentence, according to the memorandum.

“Such a proposed sentence is a slap in the face to the severity of tragedy caused by defendant’s gross negligence, the victims and their families, and the applicable law that is premised on the concept of proportionate sentencing.”
JFC, the parts by his Dad. Make me want to find him and beat the holy living crap out of him. Indifferent, lying asshole. That should have never been allowed to reproduce.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT