Are we looking at a return to the end of the Zalesky era?
PSU
UM
OHIO
Cornell
Mizzou
ASU
Iowa
NUB
ISU
3-7 at NCAAs will be a toss up
Shane Griffith
- Thread starter Holm145
- Start date
PSU
UM
OHIO
Cornell
Mizzou
ASU
Iowa
NUB
ISU
3-7 at NCAAs will be a toss up
Michigan has added four guys and unless Ayala and Chittum have really bad tournaments (or injuries of course), I'd still expect to beat them even if we don't add AJ Ferrari. Maybe not in a duel, but in NCAAs. Cannon probably beats whomever he faces 133 and Griffith favored vs Kennedy or Brands, but I'd still take Ayala and Cass over DeAugustino and Davison in both.
Probably going to get buried for this take but TnT not even top half of coaches p4p when it comes to recruiting. Iowa is a brand and Carver is wrestling heaven, take away those intangibles and this is a complete disaster. Hate to finally admit it but its time for a change.
He is 5ft 8, and doesn’t have a thick barrel chested build, very average. He also didn’t look that ripped. Riggins is 5ft 11 and very lean and some people think he can go 157😊. Anthony Ferrari looks about 5ft 8-9 standing next to Brands, and is talking about going 157 and is ripped as hell. I thing Kennedy with alittle discipline could go 157 and have much better results. Riggins, Colby or Ferrari could battle for the 165 spot. Since we aren’t winning shit next year, may be better to red Shirt Ferrari, and see if Riggins can hold 165 for a year if Colby not strong enough to bump up.
Kinda starting to seem like that. When recruits bring up why they chose Iowa it’s a lot of the tradition and the fans. When guys sign with psu it’s for the coaching.
Maybe this recruiting coordinator thing should be looked into.
If it was part time. I still have hope he can let his knees heal properly and come back on 2024 In freestyle.
Head coaches don't do most of the recruiting at many programs. John Smith doesn't recruit, Perry does. Kish didn't recruit, Blanc did. If you think TnT don't draw interest. Add people to the HWC and the recruiting problem is much I proved. If Eierman and Arnold (both relatives) can't get Cox, that's not TnT!
I’m a believer in TNT but this “logic” misses. You name two huge (presumptive) tools TNT would have in recruiting Cox in his family being there and then claim it’s not on TNT for not getting him to the HWC even though they have an advantage over other clubs? That doesn’t really compute for me.
If Anthony redshirts we still have two years of Kennedy. He’s not beating chittum for 157, and he’s not making 149. I think 157 is a stretch if he grows more, and we know the Ferrari’s are always in the weight room. Need to find a way to get chittum , Kennedy, and Ferrari in the line up at the same time, and that’s with Chittum at 149. Chittum looked slightly soft at 150’s in freestyle and I understood he would want to cut weight while gray shirting. Maybe him and Kennedy can learn how to lean up and still have energy from the Ferrari’s, they seem to have it mastered.
Granted, it isn’t what PSU is doing in 2024 but it’s hard for me to look at the 2023 class, note we have Ayala coming off redshirt, and agree with your statement. Too over the top, IMHO.
ISU is a toss up with Iowa at the NCAAs? Surely you jest. Based on what?
I've said it many times, and will repeat it again. Winning NCAAs is all about having finalists. Therefore, our recruiting (and portal hunting) should be laser-focused on wrestlers who project to be multi-time NCAA finalists (i.e. those who are highly ranked P4P).
Who does Iowa currently have who fit this category?
Ayala (hopefully)
Chittum
Arnold
Kueter (if football doesn't get in the way)
Jesuroga losing his desire really hurt since he was a probable multi-time finalist. The uncertainty with Kueter....well, I like certainty.
Iowa needs to quickly come up with more than these four, and also not have their finals appearances spaced out over years, but rather occurring at the same time. The young Ferrari would definitely help, but at least two more are needed in the next year or two. Even then, as I mentioned, their finals appearances need to occur in the same year(s).
Who does Iowa currently have who fit this category?
Ayala (hopefully)
Chittum
Arnold
Kueter (if football doesn't get in the way)
Jesuroga losing his desire really hurt since he was a probable multi-time finalist. The uncertainty with Kueter....well, I like certainty.
Iowa needs to quickly come up with more than these four, and also not have their finals appearances spaced out over years, but rather occurring at the same time. The young Ferrari would definitely help, but at least two more are needed in the next year or two. Even then, as I mentioned, their finals appearances need to occur in the same year(s).
Having depth and competition in the room is good . It will all work itself out. Just get the talent that should be the goal
<<Probably going to get buried for this take but TnT not even top half of coaches p4p when it comes to recruiting. Iowa is a brand and Carver is wrestling heaven, take away those intangibles and this is a complete disaster. Hate to finally admit it but its time for a change>>
This is an interesting take-- I want to win nattys as much as anyone. I hate that PSU is piling up the titles-- with that said we are clearly the best program in the nation not named Penn State. We won a team title 2 years ago, and clearly had the best team 2 years in a row (covid cancellation)
Our arena sells out---
But we are a complete disaster ? come on man...
This is an interesting take-- I want to win nattys as much as anyone. I hate that PSU is piling up the titles-- with that said we are clearly the best program in the nation not named Penn State. We won a team title 2 years ago, and clearly had the best team 2 years in a row (covid cancellation)
Our arena sells out---
But we are a complete disaster ? come on man...
I'm sure some will disagree, but Griffith really doesn't bother or surprise me much that he didn't come to Iowa. While I would have been fine with him coming, I would rather PK for three more years than Griffith for one. Probably only a 3-6 point difference between the two next year if even that. PK for the two years after that is much more valuable. Transfers filling holes is great, but PK is hardly a hole (yeah, I know he didn't AA last year). Iowa has much bigger holes to fill if they are going to pay for a 1 year transfer than 165. 174 isn't a hole either and Griffith is a sideways move there as well imo. 184 is the only spot I could see him helping Iowa and that is a big question mark as well jumping 2 weights. Iowa just didn't make sense to me for him.
LMFAO....Do you guys even LOOK at the rosters when you spew this nonsense? A return to the Zalesky era? Brands has only been outside the Top 5 once at Iowa and that was his very first year where they took 8th. If VTech didn't block those 1st year transfers they almost certainly finish top 3 and would have had a decent chance to win it all(Minnesota won it with 98 and ISU was 2nd with 88.5, while Iowa finished with 57). Hell, the only time they took 5th was due to a penalty point, finishing 1 point behind VTech for 4th.
Iowa is STILL the 2nd best team when you look at them on paper. Their only weak spot, even without getting ANY of the transfers, is at 197. Even though Michigan gains DeAugustino, Cannon, Griffith and Davison, they still lose Parris(Champ) and may lose Lewan(multiple AA), he almost didn't come back last year. I am not sold DeAugustino is an upgrade from Medley. Cannon has to move up because Ragusin is already at 133. Griffith has Amine at 165, so he goes up to 174 and Davison, as good as he is, is NOT scoring near the point Parris did. Lamer is also transferring out. Overall, if Lewan doesn't come back, Michigan will be lucky to score the same as last season.
PSU is absolutely way out ahead, but I just don't see another team beating Iowa, as long as they stay reasonably healthy. Here are the likely lineups for the next 5 or so teams behind PSU:
------Iowa----------------MI--------------------tOSU--------------Cornell-----------------Mizz-----------NCSTATE
125: Ayala----------DeAugustino---------Gonzales-----------Ungar-----------------Surtin-----------Camacho
133: Teske-------------Ragusin---------Mendes/Bouzakis---Arujua----------------Seltzer-----------Orine
141: Woods-----------Cannon------------D'Emilio------------Cornella---------------Edmond---------Jack
149: Rath/Sieb------Mayora---------------Sasso-------------Shapiro----------------Mauller---------Arrington
157: Chittum---------Lewan/?------------Gallagher----------Handlovic------------Fisher------------Scott
165: Kennedy--------Amine----------------Hepner-----------Ramirez---------------O'Toole----------Singleton
174: Brands----------Griffith--------------Kharchla-----------Foca-------------------Mocco-----------Faison
184: Assad-----------Rogers/Bullock----Shumate----------Loew------------------Hawks------------Hidlay
197: Kolby/Glazier--Yatooma------------Hoffman----------Cardenas-------------Elam--------------Trumble
285: Cassioppi------Davison-------------Feldman-----------Fernandes-----------Elam---------------Trephan
Some people have heavy bones. Look at Mark Hall. 165 is the lowest PK's wrestled since his freshman year of high school.
Do you think penn st is worried currently how things will workout with all the talent they've. You bring in talent and the rest will work itself out.
I think you missed VT in this. Dual wise if you put 2 through 7 together in a round-robin it would be a lot of fun and I doubt any team goes undefeated - could be that 4-2 would be the top record. Can someone make this happen at "national" duals?
We have 3 returning AAs. 3!
Ayala and Chittum (49 or 57?) should be AA and we'd hope that PK will be on the podium but 165 is still stacked.
Teske, Seibrecht and Abe? Cobe may have had the best year of the 3 last year...and we don't even know if he'll be in the lineup next year.
The end of the Zalesky era might be hyperbole from me but we have a lot of work to do.
I wasn't really talking about duals. Since National Duals disintegrated, it really IS now only about NCAA's. VTech simply hasn't been a contender for 2nd. Starting from 2023 and working back to 2010, here are their placements: 9th,8th,15th,Covid,11th,8th,6th,4th,10th,8th,10th,t11th,33rd and34th.
Still, here is their likely starting lineup:
125: Ventresca
133: Latona
141: Crook
149: Henson
157: Andonian
165: Brady
174: Lewis
184: Fisher
197: Smith
285: Catka
Even in a dual format, I don't see VTech winning more than 5 matches(133,149,157,174 and possibly either 125 or 197) Of those, I would still say Iowa could win at 125,133 and 197. Hell, even Chittum may prove good enough to beat Andonian. The only matches I would definitely favor VTech is at 149 and 174.
In a tournament format, I think Iowa beats them by double digits without much of an issue...
Agreed about tournament, I just looked at the potential lineups you posted (plus VT) and that looks like a lot of fun dual wise was my point. I see a lot of potential 5-5 splits among those 7 teams.
Other than PSU, what teams are returning more points? Missouri, Cornell and VTech do. When comparing to PSU, EVERYONE falls considerably short. But, that is NOT the measuring stick when you want to say crap like Zalesky era and fighting for 7th place.
The fact is I SHOWED you the lineups. There is NOT a single team Iowa shouldn't still beat, other than PSU.
Missouri returns 59.5 points. However, Seltzer, Edmond, Fisher and Hawks are very unlikely to add more than a couple points to that total.
Cornell returns 54.5. They "only" lose Yianni, but those are pretty big shoes to fill for Shapiro. Again, not much room for improvement.
VTech returns all 49 of their points and the same 10 starters. Not much room for improvement.
Iowa returns 48 points without considering Ayala and Chittum filling in for Lee, Murin and Warner.
NCState returns 46.5. They swap Camacho for Trombley and still have a hole at 165.
Michigan returns 45 points including ALL the transfers and slotting Cannon at 141 and Griffith at 174, respectively. That leaves 149, 184 and 197 where guys are very unlikely to score at NCAA's.
tOSU returns 40 points. They lose Smith, Romero and Orndorff. Hepner, Shumate and Feldman would have to score quite a bit for them to truly challege for 2nd.
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Not trying to be argumentative here, but I think you are selling Cornell a lot and UM a bit short.
Cornell - they return 54.5 WITHOUT considering Shapiro. If there's a better incoming than Shapiro, I have yet to see him - and that includes Mesenbrink and Chittum. At 149 he is likely to add significant points for them. They definitely have some upside at 197 and 285 as well. They will be a very tough tournament team to beat.
UM - Their returning 45 only includes a couple from D'Augustino and Cannon. These guys have AA'd before - just not last year (and D'Aug was hurt) - you could see a nice bump if those two return to form. Of course, the track record for 6th and 7th-year guys is not great, so I'm not as bullish on them as a tournament team.
if only you had applied this to your own life, you wouldn't have to b!tch about others
There are, in fact, 12 points for second place.You win the whole damn thing or you don't.
No problem. I like the perspective.
As far as Cornell goes, they had a GREAT tournament last year, relative to expectations. I like Shapiro, but I am just not giving him near the kind of points Yianni scored. Even then, that still only was enough to get them 3rd place, only 6 points ahead of tOSU. Vito can't really do better than what he did last year. Ungar will have hard time time matching the points he scored to go out in the R12(he scored 3 bonus points). Cornella could maybe win another match, but I just don't see him on the podium. 157 isn't scoring. Ramirez is still in a brutal weight where R12 is an accomplishment. Foca will be VERY hard pressed to match last year's output. Loew is the one "wild card" depending on he comes back from injury. Cardenas could AA again, but could just as likely not. Something about Cornell 285's make me expect very little until someone finally proves me wrong. If I had to pick I would put them somewhere in the 60's. I just don't see that as enough to take 2nd.
As far as UofM goes, I think they have an even harder time getting to the upper 70's or low 80's, which is what it should take to have a decent chance at 2nd. Maybe DeAugustino scores a couple more points, but if Finesilver only made the R12(I really thought he was placing), I am just not going to go gangbusters on the lower weight NW transfers. With that said, Cannon, up at 141, will have a very hard time AA'ing. Nearly all the AA's are back and most are very strong, very big for the weight. Ragusin should be back at 133 and he always seems to fizzle at NCAA's. 149 is looking like a big hole, unless the Voinovich rumors are true. 157, could REALLY hurt if Lewan doesn't go. Amine is money at NCAA's, but I wouldn't bet on him matching that placement, if I were forced to bet. Griffith, up at 174, is a ? Should he AA? Yes. Higher than 5th? I can't say that. 184 is a hole and so is 197. Davison's ceiling is about 4th place. I just don't see enough extra points to get them past the 60's let alone 70's or 80's...
For perspective, I would put Iowa in the upper 70's based on what I see so far. Here is a way too early guess with 5 AA's and 1 Champ.
125-Ayala 10 points
133-Teske 4 points
141-Woods 22 points
149-Rathjen/Siebrecht 3 points
157-Chittum 10 points
165-Kennedy 4 points
174-Brands 10 points
184-Assad 2.5 points
197- 0 points
285-Cass 14 points
This is an interesting take-- You seem happy to be losing by 55 points and to year in, year out have zero national champions. If you can't see what is right in front of your face I have nothing for you.
I'll say it again, take away the Iowa Brand intangible and this is a disaster. Thankfully we still have some value just being the Hawks; but beware-- a lot of Nebraska fans know beauty is a depreciating asset.
2021 team title was a nice caveat to having to watch Penn State go 5/5 in the finals. We never had a reason to celebrate, and we all know it. We were merely keeping it warm for the Nits.
FIFY
BTW, wrong teams message board. Have fun with the Carl’s.
Agreed. Has all the ear marks of a PSU troll impersonating an Iowa fan. 18 total posts, etc.
Ignored.
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