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Should churches be allowed to obtain wealth.

sadiehawkins

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Sep 21, 2008
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Why should churches be allowed to sit on huge amounts of cash and be allowed tax exempt status? To further a political agenda. I have a rich catholic sister who I asked u think jesus js hanging out with u.. show me where he is frolicking with the rich on a beach somewhere
 
Why should churches be allowed to sit on huge amounts of cash and be allowed tax exempt status? To further a political agenda. I have a rich catholic sister who I asked u think jesus js hanging out with u.. show me where he is frolicking with the rich on a beach somewhere
Absolutely not
Sure. Tax them.

Planned Parenthood had $1.3 Billion in tax exempt revenue last year. Them too, right? Or is their “political agenda” ok?
 
Why should churches be allowed to sit on huge amounts of cash and be allowed tax exempt status? To further a political agenda. I have a rich catholic sister who I asked u think jesus js hanging out with u.. show me where he is frolicking with the rich on a beach somewhere
Ooof, rich church? Send one our way. Our church could really use some money. We had to go to three service times and have started a campaign to build an new auditorium because of the rapid growth. Sadly, most people don't give.

According to our head pastor, there are thousands in attendance each Sunday and we've been able to raise close to $400K for our building fund since May; however, that amount has been raised by only 114 contributors. It's going to be a long climb.
 
There aren't many tax exempt organizations that don't have a "political agenda".

Maybe do away with them all and not just the ones you don't like?
OP has likely never attended a typical church and bases his distain on Mega Churches and Catholic Cathedrals. Fortunately, that really isn't the norm.

Most churches are like this:

327213029_1410725296334328_2071299474185017223_n.jpg


and this is my little church.

d163c3e63900c37e1ca194d611e769e0_-united-states-texas-bexar-county-san-antonio-talley-road-5354-alamo-community-church-210-253-2646.jpg


This church has missions locally as well as overseas, isn't sitting on some stock-pile of cash and our pastor drives a mini-van.
 
OP has likely never attended a typical church and bases his distain on Mega Churches and Catholic Cathedrals. Fortunately, that really isn't the norm.

Most churches are like this:

327213029_1410725296334328_2071299474185017223_n.jpg


and this is my little church.

d163c3e63900c37e1ca194d611e769e0_-united-states-texas-bexar-county-san-antonio-talley-road-5354-alamo-community-church-210-253-2646.jpg


This church has missions locally as well as overseas, isn't sitting on some stock-pile of cash and our pastor drives a mini-van.
This. I sit on our church's finance council and most of the discussions are about cutting costs to keep cash flow positive
 
OP has likely never attended a typical church and bases his distain on Mega Churches and Catholic Cathedrals. Fortunately, that really isn't the norm.

Most churches are like this:

327213029_1410725296334328_2071299474185017223_n.jpg


and this is my little church.

d163c3e63900c37e1ca194d611e769e0_-united-states-texas-bexar-county-san-antonio-talley-road-5354-alamo-community-church-210-253-2646.jpg


This church has missions locally as well as overseas, isn't sitting on some stock-pile of cash and our pastor drives a mini-van.
Those churches would have little to no tax burden, you know.
 
There aren't many tax exempt organizations that don't have a "political agenda".

Maybe do away with them all and not just the ones you don't like?
I'm not too worried about the political agenda part - except to the extent that public money is subsidizing those political agendas. So yeah, cut tax breaks.

And let's not forget, pushing religion is also a political agenda. And also a business.

Which is to say that churches/religious organizations should pay taxes the same as anyone else.

That said, I do approve of targeted subsidies. So, for example, if churches are operating carbon capture operations or (more likely) helping the poor, then they should qualify for those exemptions or subsidies the same as anyone else.

Basically, no special rights or privileges.
 
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Over the years, some people here have claimed that churches and religious organizations don't get any special tax breaks.

What are the religious tax breaks? Anyone know?

For example, suppose I donate to a church. I don't have to pay taxes on my income that I donated, right?

What about the church? Does it have to pay taxes on that income?

Suppose that donation goes to pay the pastor's salary. Does he have to pay taxes on that income?
 
Those churches would have little to no tax burden, you know.
So no wealth and no tax burden. I'm good with that.

Are you good with tax exemptions for giving to charitable organizations; for example I'm able to itemize what I give to Compassion International, the Strong Foundation, my Church, etc.

Also, people seem to forget about people's wealth like Joel Osteen and the like not factoring in the majority of their wealth comes from book and media sales, speaking engagements, etc. Supposedly, Joel doesn't take his salary from the church.

And FWIW, I think Joel is an unqualified, money grifting charlatan. It's been a long time since we've had someone like Billy Graham. These days, folks like Joel & Pat Robertson seem to get the spot light.
 
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I work for a "not for profit" organization. Unfortunately, many years that designation is taken a little too seriously.
 
Ooof, rich church? Send one our way. Our church could really use some money. We had to go to three service times and have started a campaign to build an new auditorium because of the rapid growth. Sadly, most people don't give.

According to our head pastor, there are thousands in attendance each Sunday and we've been able to raise close to $400K for our building fund since May; however, that amount has been raised by only 114 contributors. It's going to be a long climb.
Our church is in a similar situation. We started a capital campaign in September that wrapped in October. We were able to raise $12 million from about 500 contributors (a total of 1,200 families on the books).
 
I'm not too worried about the political agenda part - except to the extent that public money is subsidizing those political agendas. So yeah, cut tax breaks.

And let's not forget, pushing religion is also a political agenda. And also a business.

Which is to say that churches/religious organizations should pay taxes the same as anyone else.

That said, I do approve of targeted subsidies. So, for example, if churches are operating carbon capture operations or (more likely) helping the poor, then they should qualify for those exemptions or subsidies the same as anyone else.

Basically, no special rights or privileges.
I have never attended a church (and I've been in attendance for nearly 50 years from Florida to Alaska to Texas) that didn't have a mission to serve the poor. Any church worth its salt has serving as their number one priority.

Our church wants to win people to Christ (as do all Churches), but their mission is to serve--serve the poor & homeless, they offer marriage enrichment classes, substance abuse recovery classes, counseling, and deep-dive Biblical courses. We have mens and womens groups to foster community.

Most don't want to see the good, they want to attach MTG and Boebert's hypocritical lunacy to ALL Christians and call it sound reasoning.
 
Over the years, some people here have claimed that churches and religious organizations don't get any special tax breaks.

What are the religious tax breaks? Anyone know?

For example, suppose I donate to a church. I don't have to pay taxes on my income that I donated, right?

What about the church? Does it have to pay taxes on that income?

Suppose that donation goes to pay the pastor's salary. Does he have to pay taxes on that income?
Correct
No
Yes
 
Are you good with tax exemptions for giving to charitable organizations; for example I'm able to itemize what I give to Compassion International, the Strong Foundation, my Church, etc.
Only for specific, approved functions. Not because there's a religious angle.

So, for example, if Congress approves a deduction for donations to refugee operations, religious and secular organizations that donate to refugee aid should equally qualify for the approved operations. But not for any funds that might be skimmed off for non-refugee operations, be they salaries or proselytizing.

My memory of the details is faint, but the excellent Jane Meyer book Dark Money looks at a number of ways that so-called charities and non-profits are really just scams to avoid taxes and/or to funnel money into political or self-serving agendas.
 
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This isn’t going to be a popular opinion but oh well. I think that tax exempt status should be directly related to charitable acts. The portion of the money donated to a church that goes to acts that are fundamentally charitable should be tax exempt. The church runs a food bank and that portion of donations are exempt. Tax exempt status should not be granted to acts that are fundamentally religious in nature.

Now I don’t know if that’s constitutional. Can the government tax a church or is that a violation of the constitution?
 
Only for specific, approved functions. Not because there's a religious angle.

So, for example, if Congress approves a deduction for donations to refugee operations, religious and secular organizations that donate to refugee aid should equally qualify for the approved operations. But not for any funds that might be skimmed off for non-refugee operations, be they salaries or proselytizing.

My memory of the details is faint, but the excellent Jane Meyer book Dark Money looks at a number of ways that so-called charities and non-profits are really just scams to avoid taxes and/or to funnel money into political or self-serving agendas.
I think with anything, there's a potential for abuse, but do we punish that abuser or the system? I've said this until I'm blue in the face, people are too quick to draw lines in the sand, taking these hardline stances. Mega churches are evil and corrupt, therefore all churches are too. Some cops are racists a-hats, therefore all cops are bad (despite 60 mil police/civilian interactions per year with the overwhelming majority being without incident that says otherwise)...and the list goes on.
 
This isn’t going to be a popular opinion but oh well. I think that tax exempt status should be directly related to charitable acts. The portion of the money donated to a church that goes to acts that are fundamentally charitable should be tax exempt. The church runs a food bank and that portion of donations are exempt. Tax exempt status should not be granted to acts that are fundamentally religious in nature.

Now I don’t know if that’s constitutional. Can the government tax a church or is that a violation of the constitution?
The sad thing is, this would break the majority of Churches in this country. If you want to get the mega church money, go after the one's holding the cash, and likely you'll find their income comes from other sources, not the offering plate droppers. ..at least on Sundays. Their giving it from that Monday morning book purchase.
 
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There are churches who have food pantries to give away
grocery items to those in need. Churches who give funds
and labor to Habitat for Humanity for the homeless. Churches
who offer after school tutoring classes for reading and math
to grade schoolers who need it. Churches who adopt a highway
and pick up litter once a month.

Bottom Line: Some churches have a mission to help their
community become a better place to live. They do not
need to be taxed, but to be encouraged in their mission.
 
This. The pastors shouldn't be living in freaking multi million dollar mansions. Using God to grift.
Since Joel's income is mostly derived from book sales, wouldn't that be taxed?

That said, I'm of the opinion any person should be free to make and spend money however they choose, BUT a pastor who is truly trying to emulate Christ and spread God's word should be living a more modest life-style--it's kinda in the job description. And that is me totally judging. His net worth is supposedly $50 mil. Is he giving? I have no idea. What would his net worth be if he wasn't giving (assuming he is), $100, $200, $300 mil?

Everyone wants to be financially secure and pastors deserve to be as well, but where do you draw the line? Who am I to judge, I'm just offering an opinion (one I'm not really qualified to make)
 
There are churches who have food pantries to give away
grocery items to those in need. Churches who give funds
and labor to Habitat for Humanity for the homeless. Churches
who offer after school tutoring classes for reading and math
to grade schoolers who need it. Churches who adopt a highway
and pick up litter once a month.

Bottom Line: Some churches have a mission to help their
community become a better place to live. They do not
need to be taxed, but to be encouraged in their mission.
I would guess that most of these don't have multi-millionaire pastors living in mansions and traveling in private jets.
 
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Know, wanting to kill babies is the democrat political agenda.
Let me know the Republican agenda that takes care of children after they're born. The number one killer of children is a non-starter to fix for Republicans. How about mental health? Nope. Children in poverty or homeless? Nope. Funding pre-school or their public educations? Nope. Feeding them? Nope.

Basically, STFU.
 
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There are churches who have food pantries to give away
grocery items to those in need. Churches who give funds
and labor to Habitat for Humanity for the homeless. Churches
who offer after school tutoring classes for reading and math
to grade schoolers who need it. Churches who adopt a highway
and pick up litter once a month.

Bottom Line: Some churches have a mission to help their
community become a better place to live. They do not
need to be taxed, but to be encouraged in their mission.
So, again, if they are doing approved charity work, they should get the same tax breaks as anyone else.

Oh . . . reading at tutoring, too, as long as the materials are secular.

If Jesus used divine magic to turn a barrel of water into enough wine for 10,000 people, how many barrels of water would He need to magically convert for 60,000 people?
 
This isn’t going to be a popular opinion but oh well. I think that tax exempt status should be directly related to charitable acts. The portion of the money donated to a church that goes to acts that are fundamentally charitable should be tax exempt. The church runs a food bank and that portion of donations are exempt. Tax exempt status should not be granted to acts that are fundamentally religious in nature.

Now I don’t know if that’s constitutional. Can the government tax a church or is that a violation of the constitution?
I'm not sure how often you attend church, but what activities does a normal church partake in that you feel should be taxed? Every church I've ever belonged to only does charitable activities. I think the folks that want to tax churches have no idea what a church actually does and spends their money on.
 
Let me know the Republican agenda that takes care of children after they're born. The number one killer of children is a non-starter to fix for Republicans. How about mental health? Nope. Children in poverty or homeless? Nope. Funding pre-school or their public educations? Nope. Feeding them? Nope.

Basically, STFU.
You have no idea what a true Republican believes. You continually try and view a Republican through the lens of a left leaning statist. A true conservative Republican believes the federal government should protect the citizens through a strong national defense, strong borders and a strong dollar. State and local governments should provide streets, sewers, schools, that teach not indoctrinate, clinics, homeless shelters and a set of fair necessary laws which will allow everyone to achieve their goals and dreams in relative safety.

The federal government is not supposed to run our national healthcare, drug abuse clinics, dictate to private business what they can and cannot produce, prices, etc. There are charities and private organizations for that. Leftists view successful government policy by how many new laws were created or how much money was spent. All those things do is continually take more and more freedom from the citizens.

So please don't tell what Republican won't do, there is a reason for that.
 
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Why should churches be allowed to sit on huge amounts of cash and be allowed tax exempt status? To further a political agenda. I have a rich catholic sister who I asked u think jesus js hanging out with u.. show me where he is frolicking with the rich on a beach somewhere
It's always easy to pick on the rich few and then penalize the many poor. For every rich one I'll show you 20 poor ones
 
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Also, people seem to get about people's wealth like Joel Osteen and the like not factoring in the majority of their wealth comes from book and media sales, speaking engagements, etc. Supposedly, Joel doesn't take his salary from the church.
Osteen can run allowances and travel through his church and he doesn't pay taxes on that. He can have credit cards and expense accounts issued by the church to buy whatever and he can avoid taxes on those. I'm certain it's all very legal since they can afford the best lawyers around.

FTR, here are the details on Lakewood's 2017 finances...

Annual budget of around $90 million. This info is from their 2017 fiscal year (ended on March 31, 2017) statement:

$31.7 million on its weekly services and programs

$6.7 million was spent on the church's Night of Hope events

$25.1 million on its television ministry

$11.5 million for general and administrative expenses

$11.9 million for fundraising

The remaining $1.2 million was spent on mission and outreach.
 
It's always easy to pick on the rich few and then penalize the many poor. For every rich one I'll show you 100 poor ones
FIFY
Osteen can run allowances and travel through his church and he doesn't pay taxes on that. He can have credit cards and expense accounts issued by the church to buy whatever and he can avoid taxes on those. I'm certain it's all very legal since they can afford the best lawyers around.

FTR, here are the details on Lakewood's 2017 finances...

Annual budget of around $90 million. This info is from their 2017 fiscal year (ended on March 31, 2017) statement:

$31.7 million on its weekly services and programs

$6.7 million was spent on the church's Night of Hope events

$25.1 million on its television ministry

$11.5 million for general and administrative expenses

$11.9 million for fundraising

The remaining $1.2 million was spent on mission and outreach.
Looking at those numbers really supports my contention that church plants surpass increasing the size of a single church. For example, our church cannot support the demand, so a few of our up and coming pastors have left to start new churches in our community. None of these churches have multi-million dollar operating expenses.

Heck, if we looked at the Old Testament 10% tithing (to support the Levite Priests who weren't permitted to work), Lakewood church should be spending $9million on missions and outreach. IMO, the income isn't generating enough servitude. Percentage wise, I give more than Lakewood and I'm by no means HROT rich.
 
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