There's alot of overlap between the two. A person can crossover between agnostic and atheist every day.
There are agnostic atheists, too. It's all very complex.
Should churches be allowed to obtain wealth.
- Thread starter sadiehawkins
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There's alot of overlap between the two. A person can crossover between agnostic and atheist every day.
There are agnostic atheists, too. It's all very complex.
Well, that seems uncalled for. Why are the funds I use to pay the painter not on your "double-tax" radar?
Uh huh...and what are you getting from your "donation" to the church? Nothing at all? They call that Sunday meeting a "service", no?Holy shite asshat!
I see I need to take it from the top with you:
LOL...go ahead and dig given that you can't seem to counter the points presented. At least you're being productive.
No, it wasn't. Playing semantic games really doesn't answer the question. I understand you're feeling trapped and lashing out so I'll just let the ad hominem slide.
I may have to go back and reread your stance, but what does anyone personally gain from any donation? I gain nothing from donating to charitable organizations. However, each charitable organization benefits from my donations to further their cause. In the case of my church, my donations pay for the facility, the staff, and their many many outreach and mission programs. This has been the case for generations, churches have been behind our world's most benevolent actions since before our country was even born; hospitals, shelters, outreach programs, and the list goes on.
Sure, there will ALWAYS be cases of abuse, but again, punish the abuser, not the cause. If some senior exec embezzled a bunch of money from the Red Cross, is that indicative of the Red Cross's charter or that person? Just because Joel Osteen is a multi-millionaire doesn't mean my pastor is crooked.
I realize I may be wrapping you up in my response unnecessarily, so let my comments apply or not where necessary. I'm probably thinking more out loud than anything.
Excellent post!
@tarheelbybirth you're a high school teacher, right?
Since 5% of teachers have been accused of abusing students (maybe more) should we stop supporting ALL teachers and schools??
Maybe we should end all public schools since 5% of teachers are abusing students?!
Semantics? You needed help with the basic definitions (see # 71).
Except for the fact that men who supposedly represent the God of the Bible would be held to the highest standards. Divine standards at that.
NO CLERGY and I do mean NONE should be getting a salary for teaching the word of God.
And before you go asking...Jehovah's Witnesses are entirely funded by VOLUNTARY donations. Collections are never taken, the men who are in positions of teaching do NOT get paid. Most have full time jobs to support themselves and their families.
Churches have an exuberant amount of wealth and while you may claim they do some good with missions etc, they spend far more paying their hierarchy and trying to put on a show with fancy churches. Too bad they don't spend enough time actually teaching scripture. Course they're busy preaching a social sermon or supporting politics.
How often do you go to other churches and listen to sermons?
At mine (I rotate 4) every sermon is about Scripture. I've heard very few about politics.
i talk to enough people that tell me it's one of the main reasons they left the church. No substance to their teaching and a bunch of politically slanted rhetoric. Probably why churches are hemorrhaging members.
I can honestly say I've not experienced that in any of the churches I've been to in the last 20+ years sans one little Southern Baptist Church in Leon Valley, TX. It was pretty bad too.
If a pastor can't draw a salary, how does he live? Pastors have lives and expenses just like the rest of us and a lot goes into running a church not to mention our pastor is in the office every day with set counseling hours as well.
It may behoove you to take some weekends traveling around your area to attend some local churches...I'd avoid the really big ones who are focused on production and TV audiences.
Here's a sermon from our head pastor as an example, they feel more like Ted Talks:
Known For It
alamocommunity.org
Says the guy who is complaining about lefties trying to describe Republicans.
You can laugh all you want, however a lot of people on here would agree with me. If they were religious why are they no longer going?
The church hasn't met the spiritual needs of their congregations. Why? Because they teach doctrines of men and not of God. And I see enough sermons to know they are more interested in social reform and political agendas than actually teaching scripture. Or they teach falsehoods that keep people in confusion and fear about who God really is.
But you call keeping your doors open and providing a place to worship, amongst many other charitable things in their community, a political activity?
Holy crap! You believe this. Another rightie who tells us to ignore how Republicans vote.
Yet Scooby Doobi tries to tell me I’m wrong. The dude who’s contributes nothing to helping unwanted kids. Be born and bootstrap it.
You are taking a very United States view at a truly global situation. Globally, the church is growing. In some areas quite tremendously.
Our little church that pre-2020 was meeting in a hotel banquet hall is growing so fast we can't keep up, despite adding another service time and we've had two plant churches.
But I do think that's abnormal for most of America where church attendance is declining.
The Misunderstood Reason Millions of Americans Stopped Going to Church
The defining problem driving people out is ... just how American life works in the 21st century.
Funny. You could be talking about the Catholic Church. Except add feeding the poor, shut ins, natural disaster victims, homeless and more when you’re talking about the church though. Are those political activities?
Same here. My church is experiencing explosive growth too, but that is primarily a function of population trends in my area. That being said, we are growing organically as well which is awesome.Our little church that pre-2020 was meeting in a hotel banquet hall is growing so fast we can't keep up, despite adding another service time and we've had two plant churches.
But I do think that's abnormal for most of America where church attendance is declining.
The Misunderstood Reason Millions of Americans Stopped Going to Church
The defining problem driving people out is ... just how American life works in the 21st century.www.theatlantic.com
You probably don't want to go there but maybe you do have evidence of the highest authorities knowingly and systematically moving abusive teachers from school to school for decades while covering up their misdeeds. I know you'll have a tough time naming school districts sitting on vast wealth while declaring bankruptcy in the face of lawsuits.
And dodging the questions again. I've addressed it. You ignored it. Climb back down in that hole.
I'd love to go there.
Public schools have covered up sexual abuse systematically and have teachers unions protect the teachers. An estimated 1 in 10 students in a public school will he subjected to abuse by a teacher.
Does this mean we should stop supporting public schools because 5-10% of teachers abused kids??
How America's schools have covered up sex abuse
A CBS investigation found that five million students will experience sexual misconduct by the time they graduate. Meg Oliver takes a look at how some teachers get shuffled from district to district after accusations of misconduct.
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Sorry, I forgot long ago what your question was. Probably wasn’t a good one to start with so I moved on.
You gain nothing from a charitable donation to an entity that doesn't affect you in any way. Paying "dues" at a church gives you access to a myriad of services and facilities whether you avail yourself of them or not. Truth is I have no problem at all with the vast, vast majority of churches but the idea that taxing their wealth is double taxation is idiotic. If you don't like the idea of taxing the church, fine. Stop making their donations tax-deductible.
The truth is most churches wouldn't meet the most basic percentages that we use to judge other charitable organizations. The largest portion of their donations - by far - go to facilities, personnel, and administrative expenses. If you want your donations to actually do some good, give them directly to highly rated charitable organizations that spend 80+% of their money on their actual mission. Otherwise, you're just paying for a seat on Sunday.
This is completely wrong. Agnostic questions God's existence but don't state they know the answer. Atheists deny God's existence.
Don't lump me in with those spineless pvssies who can't make a decision.
No one "knows" the answer.
It's a question of belief.
A person that lacks belief in God would be an atheist.
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Good point, guess you’re against government welfare then as well!
Not quite fair since their operations are a separate exempt purpose in addition to charity
