But you don't have the right to force someone else to violate their religious convictions. Both extremes would be tyrannical. There has to be some sort of balance.
Should HROT Have a Politics-Free Day? Or a Religion-Free Day? Both?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
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But you don't have the right to force someone else to violate their religious convictions. Both extremes would be tyrannical. There has to be some sort of balance.
Of course I do, that's the law. And I bet its a law you agree with. Because there are all sorts of everyday interactions that are required by law that could be argued to violate some religious sensibilities. Frankly its a bit ridiculous to even think that baking a cake for people you don't think should be married violates any religious doctrine. I've never seen anyone actually point to one religious law that would indicate the action was actually prohibited. Where we could point to religious doctrine that prohibits other daily interactions such as doing business with an unaccompanied, immodestly dressed woman. But yet the law protects her right to buy a cake too. Equal rights my friend. If you don't want to run a business of public accommodation, don't run one.
That's tyrannical and frankly wrong.
In employment, the law requires employers to make "reasonable accommodations" for the sincerely-held religious beliefs of employees. So if the waitress at the bakery and deli is not allowed to handle pork products per her religious beliefs, the employer has to respect that and try to find a reasonable accommodation.
I think customers should be required to do the same. Fair is fair. I'm sick and damn tired of employers being second-hand citizens that everyone can just stomp all over. They are in fact people, too.
This isn't about hate. It's about being forced to participate in something that violates someone's sincerely-held religious beliefs.
Full disclosure: I'm Agnostic. I know what it feels like to be ostracized based on religious belief (or the lack thereof). The only way we can all get along on this planet is if we can learn to be respectful of each other's' beliefs.
We disagree that this is even on point. You are now talking about employer's duty to the employee which is a different topic than a business's duty to the public. But if we accept your argument then it must follow that a business must make reasonable accommodations for the gay wedding cake.
I note that you also failed to point to any actual religious doctrines that require one not make gay cake. The religious excuse it really just cover for hate.
I'm all for reasonable accommodations in the making of a cake. Earlier in this thread (or perhaps another), I recounted the story of a Christian baker who was willing to make the cake, decorate the whole thing, but wanted the following accommodation: we will give you the tools and training to write your message on the cake yourself.
Could have been a very romantic moment, participating in writing their special message together and completing the cake.
But no.... that wasn't good enough.
I'm sorry, but I thought that was a reasonable compromise.
I doubt very much that you really think DIY is a reasonable accommodation. Reasonable would be to find a co worker who wasn't going to hide behind their religion to discriminate. I'm still waiting for any religious doctrine that justifies discrimination of gay cake. I can point to several that justifies discrimination against women but I bet you believe shop owners have to treat women equally.
Do Jews patronize a Moslim baker? I bet they are smarter than that. And I bet if they do, the Moslim provides the product.......if it occurs in the USA.
Show me the case where what you allege occurred.
jeeeebus natural...why waste your time with these morons. It's like talking to a 5 year old.
You're not required to subscribe to any particular widespread dogma or doctrine in order to have a sincerely-held religious belief. I could subscribe to "Tradism" and if I sincerely-believe it, then I'm protected.
MOst businesses strive to keep the customer satified. If the baker agrees to take "the order' HE also agrees to fulfill the order as directed...I would think.
Where do you live Trad? I am not familiar with your world.
What is tradism? I think you may be demonstrating why their argument is hogwash.
Seriously. I am not making this up.
I can believe in a religion with a single adherent - me - and as long as it's a sincerely-held religious belief, I am entitled to reasonable accommodations from my employer.
Go to EEOC.gov for more info.
Cool, and I believe in a religion that says gay people need cake. Accommodate me. You don't believe in religious discrimination, then you can't refuse me cake. We can both play this game.
That.
Is.
Why.
We.
All.
Need.
To.
Be.
Reasonable.
You don't get the entire cake. You have to share. Sorry.
Now I only get half the cake I paid for? Hogwash. Accommodate me or you are anti religious and a thief.
