Should LSD have taken a knee ...

[Hawk_4shur]

... at the 5 yard line on his last TD run with 2:01 remaining? Minny with only 1 TO, the clock will start running as soon as the refs move the chains. Hawks go into victory formation for 3 snaps and time will expire. Right?

I would never expect a player to do that, and I am certainly NOT being critical of Daniels. But watching Minny roar down the field and sitting through an onside kick attempt put this in my mind with hindsight.

Thoughts?

 

[mlb1399]

In hindsight, everything worked out. At the time, I thought he should have went down after he got the first down. With no timeouts left, Minnesota wouldn't have had a chance to win the game. After scoring, and with 2 minutes left, all they had to do was drive down, score and then get the onside. That's too close for comfort for me.

 

[MepoDawg#]

He probably didn't think the defense would let Minny score so fast afterwards. And without someone specifically telling them before the play to go down, i imagine it was pure instinct to score.

 

[yerpHAWK]

I was thinking the same thing, but it's definitely on the defense for letting them score so fast. That should have definitely clinched the game.

 

[HawkeyeinOmaha]

Like you said, I would never expect any player to do that. I wouldn't have anticipated the D laying down like that up by 12 with 2 minutes left. We have seen it happen before, but 2 TD's in 2 minutes is unlikely.

 

[INXS83]

... at the 5 yard line on his last TD run with 2:01 remaining? Minny with only 1 TO, the clock will start running as soon as the refs move the chains. Hawks go into victory formation for 3 snaps and time will expire. Right?

I would never expect a player to do that, and I am certainly NOT being critical of Daniels. But watching Minny roar down the field and sitting through an onside kick attempt put this in my mind with hindsight.

Thoughts?

So, LSD takes a knee at the one. CJ and Canzeri fumble the next snap (it happens) and Minny recovers the fumble and now has over 2 minutes to drive the length of the field and score 1 TD to win. I don't like it.

Not even the coaches are expecting the RB to break through for a 50+ yard run against a 9 man front, so it would just not ever come up in conversation between coaches and RB.

IMHO, taking a knee at the 1 or 2 yard line on a breakaway run is bush-league. It also sends the wrong message to your defense.

 

[GarryO37]

You always take the points.

 

[artradley]

So, LSD takes a knee at the one. CJ and Canzeri fumble the next snap (it happens) and Minny recovers the fumble and now has over 2 minutes to drive the length of the field and score 1 TD to win. I don't like it.

Not even the coaches are expecting the RB to break through for a 50+ yard run against a 9 man front, so it would just not ever come up in conversation between coaches and RB.

IMHO, taking a knee at the 1 or 2 yard line on a breakaway run is bush-league. It also sends the wrong message to your defense.

If the message it sends to the defense is, "We no longer trust you" that would seem to be the accurate message, would it not?

 

[markfromj]

Yes. He should have run to the 1, then kneeled, and even then, kneel only once the Gophers get close (run some more clock).

But, that is asking for a lot of mental energy from a young man hyped by major adreneline at that moment. Can't fault him at all.

 

[mvhomerj]

If the message it sends to the defense is, "We no longer trust you" that would seem to be the accurate message, would it not?

Agree, the D didn't show up Saturday. Play like that and OSU will put up 50... maybe more.

 

[INXS83]

If the message it sends to the defense is, "We no longer trust you" that would seem to be the accurate message, would it not?

Kirk and Phil would not send that message, even if that thought passed their minds. Always take the points. That's why you play the game.

 

[thecarls]

He was probably thinking nothing but..... Run run run endZone endzone endzone

 

[revkev73]

At times, too much thinking isn't good...

No one expected Minnesota to treat Iowa's defense like a bowl of Jello those last two minutes when the game was on the line.

Player of the game...Minnesota's kicker...for kicking it out of bounds to end the game.

When you are 10-0...good things have to happen...

The ending was too close for my liking...but it is sweeter beating Minnesota by 5 rather than 12...they can enjoy the pain all year long.

Iowa plays defense for interceptions and turnovers...when they don't happen...games are much more interesting, fun, and at times...heartbreaking.

Let's roll up the regular season...and move on to sweeter things.

BTW...great to see Daniels healthy...

 

[Packer54]

Score.....defense needs to be held accountable and not look like a HS defense in the last 2 minutes of the game. That was the only really bad part of the game to me. BUT I am grateful for this team and we are one week away from clinching a ride to Indy......next up Purdue!!!!

 

[El Simbolo]

To answer OP, yes of course he "should" have gone down at the 1. I was yelling this at the TV. but oh well, he didn't and we won. I suppose style points could still be in play, so maybe it was best to score. If situation presents itself again against OSU go down, though. And there is absolutely nothing bush league or wrong message about going down. Also, I wonder if defenses in this situation play it like a goal line play since the DC surely realizes it's stop the first down or nothing. That's probably what helps contribute to long runs in situations like this (Minnesota gave up similar runs the last 2 games - might not be a coincidence)

 

[ichawk24]

In a video game, it would have made sense to lay down at the 3.

In the real life football game Saturday night, I'm glad he scored. I wish the D had stopped Minnesota.

 

[ichawk24]

Also, I wonder if defenses in this situation play it like a goal line play since the DC surely realizes it's stop the first down or nothing.

Yes, that played a part in the run. The safeties were about 6 yards from the LOS, Daniels juked one just after crossing the LOS and was gone.

 

[David1979]

No you shouldn't just go down. Get the points.

 

[wyldhawk9]

To answer OP, yes of course he "should" have gone down at the 1. I was yelling this at the TV. but oh well, he didn't and we won. I suppose style points could still be in play, so maybe it was best to score. If situation presents itself again against OSU go down, though. And there is absolutely nothing bush league or wrong message about going down. Also, I wonder if defenses in this situation play it like a goal line play since the DC surely realizes it's stop the first down or nothing. That's probably what helps contribute to long runs in situations like this (Minnesota gave up similar runs the last 2 games - might not be a coincidence)

Totally this. I was emotionally torn wanting to see him score on the long run but saying take a knee at the 1 over and over. I agree that there is nothing bush league about downing the ball in that situation. I have seen NFL players do this...from a strategy perspective it is going to checkmate immediately instead of giving your opponent the luxury of a few extra moves.

Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
In the case of B, Maurice Jones Drew was taking a knee to ensure that they could kick a fg as time expired (which is what happened).

 

[markfromj]

Always take the points. That's why you play the game.

No. You don't play the game to score points. You play the game to win the game.

 

[jhawkinaz]

At times, too much thinking isn't good...

No one expected Minnesota to treat Iowa's defense like a bowl of Jello those last two minutes when the game was on the line.

Player of the game...Minnesota's kicker...for kicking it out of bounds to end the game.

When you are 10-0...good things have to happen...

The ending was too close for my liking...but it is sweeter beating Minnesota by 5 rather than 12...they can enjoy the pain all year long.

Iowa plays defense for interceptions and turnovers...when they don't happen...games are much more interesting, fun, and at times...heartbreaking.

Let's roll up the regular season...and move on to sweeter things.

BTW...great to see Daniels healthy...

To expand on this, did anyone else think it was pretty funny how they did all that flip-flopping and running around like idiots for about 10 seconds.....and then the guy just kicks it out of bounds while the Hawks stand there? Pretty entertaining I thought.

It made me think of Indiana Jones movie where the guy with the huge sword is flipping it all over the place while everyone gasps, then Indy puts a cap in his ass in one second and moves on.

Onside moment was tense, but then ended with a quiet dud.

 

[El Simbolo]

I just recently saw all that shifting on an onsides in another game. Was that Minny @ OSU? Minny likes to shift a lot late in games ;-)

 

[eyeohuh]

I'm not sure how anyone can say scoring was smarter. CJ wouldve kneeled 3 times its over or kick a FG as time expired on 4th down. I don't blame LD for scoring it's instinct but I think a lot of you would've put the blame on him if Minny recovered the offside.

 

[Curt Furence]

I just recently saw all that shifting on an onsides in another game. Was that Minny @ OSU? Minny likes to shift a lot late in games ;-)

It was the end of the Minnesota- Michigan game with clock running and only like 16 seconds left. They didn't score then didn't score on a qb sneak and lost bc time expired. Not sure what Claeys fascination is with all the motion or if Kill did it too.

 

[hawkifann]

In hindsight, everything worked out. At the time, I thought he should have went down after he got the first down. With no timeouts left, Minnesota wouldn't have had a chance to win the game. After scoring, and with 2 minutes left, all they had to do was drive down, score and then get the onside. That's too close for comfort for me.

You actually left out a big key...."all" Minnesota had to do was drive down, score, get the onside kid AND THEN SCORE ANOTHER TD, all in about 2 minutes. That's a big difference. A FG wouldn't have even helped them.

Technically speaking, Daniels going down at some point after the TD would have probably been the most optimal play. As others have said, they only had one timeout and Iowa probably could have run the clock out. That said, the extra TD did give Iowa not only a 2-score lead, but a lead that would require Minnesota to score 2 TDs. Even without Iowa's defense having much success, the odds of getting a quick score.....and the onside kick....and another quick score are fairly low, so I'm not going to call Daniels' play dumb or anything.

 

[ichawk24]

Minnesota ran a similar "super crazy fake 'em out" onside against OSU.

What I don't understand is how the kicker can drop kick the onside. I thought kickoffs had to be from a tee. If you can drop kick, why doesn't every team punt like teams elect to do on post-safety free kicks?

 

[INXS83]

No. You don't play the game to score points. You play the game to win the game.

I'm glad the guy who is in the top ten in all-time B1G FB wins is coaching the Hawks rather than you.

You seem like one of those 'let's hide behind the bloody chainsaws hanging in the shed rather than let's escape in the running car' kind of poster.

Dropped the mic.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Score the TD and go up 40-28 with 2 minutes left. You would think your D wouldnt allow Minnesota to go down the field and score in 45 seconds.

 

[markfromj]

I'm glad the guy who is in the top ten in all-time B1G FB wins is coaching the Hawks rather than you.

You seem like one of those 'let's hide behind the bloody chainsaws hanging in the shed rather than let's escape in the running car' kind of poster.

Dropped the mic.

So do you still stand behind your statement that you play the game to score points? If so, then shouldn't you play no defense, so the other team can score quickly, so that you can get the ball back and try to score points?

 

[Hawktagonapus]

Minnesota ran a similar "super crazy fake 'em out" onside against OSU.

What I don't understand is how the kicker can drop kick the onside. I thought kickoffs had to be from a tee. If you can drop kick, why doesn't every team punt like teams elect to do on post-safety free kicks?

You can punt after a safety, but not a normal kickoff. You can drop kick (ball has to bounce off the ground before kicking) or place kick either. Teams choose to punt after safeties because for the extra hang-time, since its further back than a normal kickoff the placekicker could out-kick the coverage.

 

[ichawk24]

I realize teams elect the punt on a free kick for hang time, I didn't realize the Minnesota onside was a true dropkick. Interesting.

In the OSU game, they started the onside with the kick on the tee, faked a couple times like he was going to kick it off the tee. Then he casually picked up the ball off the tee as if he was resetting it or something, and quickly dropkicked it towards the sideline, but OSU recovered.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Here is my thought. If we were past the point of being able to run out the clock on 3 snaps... go down. If not, score. If you aren't making the decision to go into V formation, play to score.

That said, I also don't mind putting up any semblance of style points on a national stage to help take advantage of this season both with recruiting and national perception.

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

I'm not sure how anyone can say scoring was smarter. CJ wouldve kneeled 3 times its over or <b>kick a FG as time expired on 4th down</b>. I don't blame LD for scoring it's instinct but I think a lot of you would've put the blame on him if Minny recovered the offside.

Not sure what could possibly go wrong

 

[El Simbolo]

We could have done 3 victory formations and called it a night. Earlier poster was wrong, Minny used their last timeout used before Daniels' run

 

[eyeohuh]

We could have done 3 victory formations and called it a night. Earlier poster was wrong, Minny used their last timeout used before Daniels' run

Exactly. I'm struggling to understand how can anyone say scoring was the better option

 

[David1979]

You have to take the points. They still had one timeout. Plus the defense f'd up and let them score in 45 seconds. It clearly looked like they thought the game was over and were just going through the motions. I expect the film sessions for the defense to be brutal and I think the D will have a great game this week.

 

[2for3]

... at the 5 yard line on his last TD run with 2:01 remaining? Minny with only 1 TO, the clock will start running as soon as the refs move the chains. Hawks go into victory formation for 3 snaps and time will expire. Right?

I would never expect a player to do that, and I am certainly NOT being critical of Daniels. But watching Minny roar down the field and sitting through an onside kick attempt put this in my mind with hindsight.

Thoughts?

yes I was screaming it in the stands(go down at the 1)...game would have been over..Indy no time outs

 

[Hawk and Awe]

Jeez.... So much out dated logic in this thread. Everything about "always take the points" and "sending the wrong message" is just riddiculous.

All that matters is what strategy is more likely to end in failure. The 2 negative outcomes are

-LSD takes a knee, we fumble a snap, MN recovers fumble, MN scores and wins or

-LSD scores, MN drives length of field and scores, MN recovers onside kick, MN scores and wins

Both percentages are REALLY freaking low. I tend to favor taking a knee because I like to have control of the ball and clock and the victory formation is designed to be safe. However I wouldn't argue if you said scoring was the better play (unless it's because you think you should always take the points

 

[revkev73]

All second guessing aside...Iowa was very close to pissing the win away...in an epic way...I hate to think of that onside kick going to the rodents and watching Iowa's defense melt away...

 

[mlb1399]

You actually left out a big key...."all" Minnesota had to do was drive down, score, get the onside kid AND THEN SCORE ANOTHER TD, all in about 2 minutes. That's a big difference. A FG wouldn't have even helped them.

Technically speaking, Daniels going down at some point after the TD would have probably been the most optimal play. As others have said, they only had one timeout and Iowa probably could have run the clock out. That said, the extra TD did give Iowa not only a 2-score lead, but a lead that would require Minnesota to score 2 TDs. Even without Iowa's defense having much success, the odds of getting a quick score.....and the onside kick....and another quick score are fairly low, so I'm not going to call Daniels' play dumb or anything.

I didn't leave out anything. My point is that if he went down after getting the first down, Minnesota has no chance of winning. With him scoring and them getting the ball back, they had a chance of winning, albeit a small chance.