Should LSD have taken a knee ...

[hawkifann]

I didn't leave out anything. My point is that if he went down after getting the first down, Minnesota has no chance of winning. With him scoring and them getting the ball back, they had a chance of winning, albeit a small chance.

Minnesota had a very small chance either way. If he takes the knee, Iowa could botch the clock or fumble a snap and Minnesota could get the ball back down 5. If he scores, then they have to score a TD quickly, get the onsides and then score another TD. Both scenarios were very unlikely. They scored way too fast after the Daniels TD, but then they still had to both recover the onside kick (they couldn't execute) and score another TD in limited time.

I said in my comment that the most optimal solution would have been to take the knee....but let's not pretend that both pathways to a loss weren't exceptionally unlikely and let's not pretend that taking the knee is a 100% guaranteed, no-risk guarantee of a win. Very, very low-risk, but not no-risk.

 

[DBQ Hawk]

Of course Daniels should've taken a knee since you never, ever want to give the opponent the ball back if you can run the clock out by taking the knee. Even Austin Blythe has said that LeShum should've taken a knee, though no one really blames the kid for getting excited and scoring.

Maybe some have forgotten it, but we lost to Northwestern about 10 years ago by giving up a late TD late, then they got the onside kick and scored a TD again, in a game we had complete control of until about 5 minutes left. This happens to a team or two every year in college football. When was the last time you heard of a team losing from the victory formation? You always go down when you can run out the clock and win, and no head coach would ever say otherwise.

 

[DutchyFunStar]

The thought crossed my mind but he crossed the goal line before I was able to work out the math.

 

[mlb1399]

Minnesota had a very small chance either way. If he takes the knee, Iowa could botch the clock or fumble a snap and Minnesota could get the ball back down 5. If he scores, then they have to score a TD quickly, get the onsides and then score another TD. Both scenarios were very unlikely. They scored way too fast after the Daniels TD, but then they still had to both recover the onside kick (they couldn't execute) and score another TD in limited time.

I said in my comment that the most optimal solution would have been to take the knee....but let's not pretend that both pathways to a loss weren't exceptionally unlikely and let's not pretend that taking the knee is a 100% guaranteed, no-risk guarantee of a win. Very, very low-risk, but not no-risk.

I'm not pretending anything. You seem to be caught up in the semantics of my message. Taking the knee raises your win probability using sports metrics to virtually 100%. Not taking a knee, while still a long shot, has a lower win probability. Especially considering how easily Minnesota moved the ball on us. The right call was taking the knee and running out the clock. Either way, we won.

 

[sloehawk]

Anyone that thinks the best play wasn't for Daniels to go down anywhere inside the 5, quite frankly has shit for brains as it relates to winning Football games. It is that simple.

 

[thewop]

... at the 5 yard line on his last TD run with 2:01 remaining? Minny with only 1 TO, the clock will start running as soon as the refs move the chains. Hawks go into victory formation for 3 snaps and time will expire. Right?

I would never expect a player to do that, and I am certainly NOT being critical of Daniels. But watching Minny roar down the field and sitting through an onside kick attempt put this in my mind with hindsight.

Thoughts?

Those who golf will understand my thinking. Scoring there is kind of like making the decision between the safe punch back into the fairway or the hero shot low through the 3 foot window that slowly rises and roles up onto the green 170 yards away. One is safe, but the other is more fun.

In football terms, yes, LSD should have gone down after the first down was made, but in fun terms for a 22 year old making a long run to put more points on the board, it's just more fun to score. Fortunately we won so it doesn't matter.

 

[Gary-Waterloo]

I don't fault him for scoring but the only realistic, even if small, chance that the Gophers had for winning the game was for LSD to score. As other posters have said, if he takes a knee, outside of fumbling a snap in victory formation, Iowa wins. I have never seen the V formation lose the ball. I have seen teams score quickly and then get an onside kick. It shouldn't have been an issue but the defense made it one.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

You take the knee at the 1" line. Game over. If something happens they have to go 99 yards. It's no more bush league (as someone stated) then victory formation.

That being said, I certainly don't blame him-- he has more on his mind when he breaks the huddle than thinking "what should I do if I break this?"

 

[David1979]

Taking the knee would have been a stupid move. Who cares if it was a 'smarter' move? It was a chance to win by more points over your rival who absolutely curb stomped you last year. If you have a chance to rub it in their face you do it.

 

[El Simbolo]

Just rechecked on btn2go, and Minny definitely used their final TO right before the TD run.

 

[CadeHawk]

A couple things minny had ZERO timeouts left.

I was at the game yelling for him to go down. When the LeShaun scored I told my friend he should have went down at the 5. Then all we had to do was take a knee and game over. The guy infront of me said that is the stupidest thing he has ever heard and I did not know #%^* about football. Well minny goes down the field and scores with over a minute left. And before I could even say anything to the guy his wife goes well Mark he knows a hell of a lot more about football than you because if Minnesota gets the onside kick we are in trouble.

Then last night in an NFL game similar thing happened the Arizona RB scored less than 2 minutes to go all he had to do was go down after he picked up first down but he ran it in. Well Seattle scored and had an onside kick.

I have coached football I never coached to score points. I coached to WIN the game and teach kids.

Believe me I am glad minny's on side kick was absolutely brutal but if it was successful and minny scored a touch down all of you posters who said he should have scored the TD would see how wrong you are.

 

[Vallholl]

A couple things minny had ZERO timeouts left.

I was at the game yelling for him to go down. When the LeShaun scored I told my friend he should have went down at the 5. Then all we had to do was take a knee and game over. The guy infront of me said that is the stupidest thing he has ever heard and I did not know #%^* about football. Well minny goes down the field and scores with over a minute left. And before I could even say anything to the guy his wife goes well Mark he knows a hell of a lot more about football than you because if Minnesota gets the onside kick we are in trouble.

Then last night in an NFL game similar thing happened the Arizona RB scored less than 2 minutes to go all he had to do was go down after he picked up first down but he ran it in. Well Seattle scored and had an onside kick.

I have coached football I never coached to score points. I coached to WIN the game and teach kids.

Believe me I am glad minny's on side kick was absolutely brutal but if it was successful and minny scored a touch down all of you posters who said he should have scored the TD would see how wrong you are.

This is correct. My dad and I discussed this on Sunday and both agreed "no body ever does that but it was the only way to lose the game was to allow Mn an onside kick chance". I guess MJD did it once. There's video and everything.

 

[StillGold]

I didn't leave out anything. My point is that if he went down after getting the first down, Minnesota has no chance of winning. With him scoring and them getting the ball back, they had a chance of winning, albeit a small chance.

 

[sloehawk]

A couple things minny had ZERO timeouts left.

I was at the game yelling for him to go down. When the LeShaun scored I told my friend he should have went down at the 5. Then all we had to do was take a knee and game over. The guy infront of me said that is the stupidest thing he has ever heard and I did not know #%^* about football. Well minny goes down the field and scores with over a minute left. And before I could even say anything to the guy his wife goes well Mark he knows a hell of a lot more about football than you because if Minnesota gets the onside kick we are in trouble.

Then last night in an NFL game similar thing happened the Arizona RB scored less than 2 minutes to go all he had to do was go down after he picked up first down but he ran it in. Well Seattle scored and had an onside kick.

I have coached football I never coached to score points. I coached to WIN the game and teach kids.

Believe me I am glad minny's on side kick was absolutely brutal but if it was successful and minny scored a touch down all of you posters who said he should have scored the TD would see how wrong you are.

I doubt they would. If you didn't have it figured out when it happened, another day of brevity isn't going to help you any.

You either understand how it works or you don't. Sadly, many don't. I hope for the majority of them the excuse is they're young and dumb. This should then be a great learning experience, one that isn't nearly as painful as the same lesson with a Loss involved.

 

[StillGold]

There is no question that taking a knee is statistically the safer approach. Players don't think that way of course. How many time have you seen an interception on a long 4th down pass with the player falling to the ground to make the interception and costing his team many yards? Everyone then high fives the player who made the interception.

 

[MauiHawk]

Given that we should have had it iced either way, I say it was a lot more fun watching him score than take a knee.

 

[CadeHawk]

I doubt they would. If you didn't have it figured out when it happened, another day of brevity isn't going to help you any.

You either understand how it works or you don't. Sadly, many don't. I hope for the majority of them the excuse is they're young and dumb. This should then be a great learning experience, one that isn't nearly as painful as the same lesson with a Loss involved.

And I am not putting anything on LeShaun and don't blame him one bit. There should have been at least one coach who did what the Philadelphia OT did when Westbrook went down vs Dallas. it was John Runyan I believe. He should have said minny is out of time outs there are two minutes pick up the first down and go down.

Even Kakart made the argument scoring was the right thing. He was like there could be a bad snap or something else could happen. Well we have a potential All American 5th year senior staring center and a QB who I have NEVER seen fumble a snap.

 

[Herkmeister]

I heard a Gopher player say we should have this. Interesting one of their linemen knew this.

 

[Hawkize31]

Taking the knee was the right call, but only marginally so.

Taking a knee puts the chances of a win at 99.5% or more - the only chance of a loss would be a botched snap turnover AND a drive for a game winning TD by Minnesota or some very unlikely penalty.
Scoring a TD puts the chances at probably 97% or so. Minnesota needed to score a TD, recover an onside kick, and score another TD in 2 minutes.

I'm guessing on those numbers, obviously. Either scenario makes a win very likely, but taking a knee would have taken it from a very likely win to a near certainty.

 

[BirdistheWord]

we needed the style points

 

[revkev73]

The yards gave him a career night...after weeks of struggling with an injury...and a TD to go 10-0...tough to deny that... It did reward him and serve as a wakeup call to the defensive players and coaches...that they need their A-game...all game long...

 

[pharmdfd]

One of plays on that TD drive we snapped the ball with around 20 seconds on the play clock. Better snaps with the play clock close to zero and a kneel down at the 1 and this game is over by CJ taking a couple knees. I rewatched that series and added up over 60 seconds on the play clock we could have milked. That would have left 1:02 in the game with a kneel down.

 

[Kurt Warner]

Wow, who in the heck actually thought he should go down? ?? Be honest. I sure as the heck wasn't thinking that. Those of you that were must be smart as hell or thinking way too much. I would have crapped my pants if he would have went down.

 

[bman546]

Score the points. There was 2 minutes left in the game, and a fumbled snap could always occur. Kicking a FG after taking 3 knees is the dumbest thing you could do. Poor snaps, bungled holds and blocked FGs do happen and a return for a TD could happen. Score and hope your defense doesn't blow it, and/or your hands team can't get the onside kick.

 

[INXS83]

Anyone that thinks the best play wasn't for Daniels to go down anywhere inside the 5, quite frankly has shit for brains as it relates to winning Football games. It is that simple.

OK, Einstein. Had you thought that all out before the ball was snapped and Daniels ran to daylight? I didn't think so. Hindsight is 20/20, eh.

 

[artradley]

Taking the knee would have been a stupid move. Who cares if it was a 'smarter' move? It was a chance to win by more points over your rival who absolutely curb stomped you last year. If you have a chance to rub it in their face you do it.

lol. So the smart move is stupid?

Interesting.

 

[artradley]

OK, Einstein. Had you thought that all out before the ball was snapped and Daniels ran to daylight? I didn't think so. Hindsight is 20/20, eh.

I don't think anybody is saying he should have thought about that as he broke it. I don't anybody has faulted him in any way. Yes, of course we're looking at it in hindsight. But whether some fans realized the best strategy immediately or figured it out afterwards doesn't change the fact that, in retrospect. it would have been the better move.

 

[*hawksrock*]

Taking the knee would have been a stupid move. Who cares if it was a 'smarter' move? It was a chance to win by more points over your rival who absolutely curb stomped you last year. If you have a chance to rub it in their face you do it.

"That right there is comedy gold Jerry"

 

[CadeHawk]

Score the points. There was 2 minutes left in the game, and a fumbled snap could always occur. Kicking a FG after taking 3 knees is the dumbest thing you could do. Poor snaps, bungled holds and blocked FGs do happen and a return for a TD could happen. Score and hope your defense doesn't blow it, and/or your hands team can't get the onside kick.

You have no way of understanding because you are clueless from the start.

Iowa would not have NEVER attempted a field goal because they would have taking a knee and ran out the clock.

And you said it yourself "hope" the D doesn't blow it.