Of course they do. Pulling talent from a >100,000 town vs pulling talent from a 5,000 town.
Makes sense right?
Slightly OT: Iowa 3A Prep Football
- Thread starter ghostOfHomer777
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Of course they do. Pulling talent from a >100,000 town vs pulling talent from a 5,000 town.
Makes sense right?
Was that football? Also using one school’s situation to change the entire state’s process?
So what do you do with Dowling? Make them play colleges? If Xavier's made to play up with 650, what about Dowling with its 1,400?
Three of the last five 3A state football titles have gone to publics, and seven of the last 10, and 11 of the last 15. Dowling has a pretty incredible run going but they haven't been undefeated in most of their recent state title seasons.
It would have been late 80's early 90's. Don't think they played O'Gorman.
There is a Southwest Christian High School a block from where I live near the Twin Cities. They recently doubled their square footage, and are capped at 500 students. This will allow them to maintain a 12:1 student teacher ratio is my understanding.
Tution is $12K per year (just think if you had multiple kids attending. Yikes!). No Football currently.
Schools with 1,000-2000 kids are far more comparable than xavier's 650 playing a town that has a beds of 290.
In dowlings case, they at least play in the highest level. Other 4a schools in the state are at least drawing from large population bases. Now if you are Mason city or fort dodge that may be different. But you will also notice their cross town catholic school rival generally fares better that the 4a public school.
Yes. The rich kids who have the means to get extra training while we are at it. If you are looking for an argument from me I am very much in favor of moving the private schools up a class that are in heavily populated cities.
WHo's talking about 1 school?
Kuemper and Beckman operate with smaller populations. I can at least empathize with them to a certain extent. But I'd be willing to be that girls that were talented in volleyball in 4,5,6th grades somehow ended up at kuemper.
why are you worrying about 2,000 wdm valley playing 1,400 dowling. What are your thoughts on grand view playing north linn. The real inequity lies in 8 man a, 1a, 2a.
I haven't lived in Iowa for a long time and have lived in the northern suburbs of Chicago since leaving. I can tell you money and parent involvement have very little to do with success in h.s. football. If they did, then schools like Lake Forest, Deerfield, New Trier. Highland Park, and Glenbrook North and South would dominate and they don't.
All of these suburbs have football programs that start at the age of 10 and the parents are rabid about their kids success. There are all kinds of private training available for $ which most parents take advantage of and the schools still lose.
It's been decades since any of then won, but when they have it has definitely been because of the coach. When the coach leaves, the wins leave.
As for the multiplier, it really hasn't had much effect on the number of titles won by private or public schools. An interesting point is that unless you are one of the smallest or largest schools in the state you may not know what class you are going to the playoffs in as they take the 256 teams with the best record and divide them by enrollment into 8 classes. It is possible to have more students in the current year than last year and play in a lower class because more larger enrollment schools made the top 256 teams.
All of these suburbs have football programs that start at the age of 10 and the parents are rabid about their kids success. There are all kinds of private training available for $ which most parents take advantage of and the schools still lose.
It's been decades since any of then won, but when they have it has definitely been because of the coach. When the coach leaves, the wins leave.
As for the multiplier, it really hasn't had much effect on the number of titles won by private or public schools. An interesting point is that unless you are one of the smallest or largest schools in the state you may not know what class you are going to the playoffs in as they take the 256 teams with the best record and divide them by enrollment into 8 classes. It is possible to have more students in the current year than last year and play in a lower class because more larger enrollment schools made the top 256 teams.
I think that there are a few of you on here that just have an ax to grind against the private schools. If you do not have a child that attends or has attended a private school then your information on the "sports advantages" is woefully incomplete and inaccurate in certain areas. I don't recall seeing Xavier receive a $50 Million or $80 Million public school bond for facility or sports venue improvements, as did Prairie and Linn Mar. I pay my taxes and am happy to do so, but please keep things in perspective.
I have a son that plays a number of sports for Xavier, including football. and I can tell you the recruiting argument is bunk. We have a football program that has been instilled in these boys since they were 3rd and 4th graders. The summer expectations for football is quite high and almost all of the boys buy in to the opportunities which creates the results you see on the field.
I have a son that plays a number of sports for Xavier, including football. and I can tell you the recruiting argument is bunk. We have a football program that has been instilled in these boys since they were 3rd and 4th graders. The summer expectations for football is quite high and almost all of the boys buy in to the opportunities which creates the results you see on the field.
'The rich kids'? The ones with facilities that typically pale in comparison to the public schools who just bond their way to nice facilities
Ummmmm, you did, you gave the North Linn-Grandview example and didn't cite any others. Beckman as the only high school in Dyersville is a little unique they draw from a bigger pool than most small towns. Is Kuemper a perennial power in volleyball? Dike-New Hartford is the one team I hear a lot about.
I'm not. I'm worrying about 650 Xavier playing at the same level as 1,400 Dowling. If Xavier has greatly reduced #s of F&R and IEP students, I assume it's the same for Dowling. So Dowling's disproportionate number of advantaged students is more than twice that of Xavier. That's your solution?
I chuckle at people who assume they know the % of F&R at private schools. Tip - It's higher than you would expect.
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That probably depends on what you're looking to get out of your experience ( meaning Mom and Dad and Junior). Great Football or academics or a combination not so great but maybe acceptable.
Some seem to think going to the powerhouse school is a better way to get you noticed for College ball. I'm in the camp that says if you're good enough, you'll be found no matter where you are.
But winning is fun. Granted you may move away from lifetime friends in the process, so there is definitely some other things to consider.
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Yeah, not talking facilities. I am talking professional coaching outside of school sports. Top clubs, top trainers, etc. These kids arent going to schools like Xavier for free. It's not always about what the schools provide.
Public schools have rich kids that get all of those additional benefits as well. Lots of them. And I know plenty of families who send their kids to Xavier schools, they're anything but wealthy.
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I have a former college buddy who sends his kids to Xavier. He works two jobs so they can afford the tuition costs. He said there is financial aid for families who can afford it. His wife helps out when she can away from her job. But they are sacrificing a lot to send their children there.
... yeah, that's why coach Sabers is putting stuff out about switching the classes based on that stuff. When you are at the 4A level, there is nothing you can do and that is fine.
I am not trying to be argumentative and yes, I was speaking in general terms about Xavier and money, there are SOME low income families there on scholarship or whatever you want to call it. The vast majority of these kids are still wealthy and have abilities to train at local facilities with professional coaching that is not available to smaller town kids.
Here is an example. I taught and coached at a small school in NE Iowa for one year. The football team was really good for 1A classes of kids. Maybe got upset in once in the regular season. Lost in the game to go to the dome at home. That team then got destroyed by Regina the next game. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 55-0.
Again, one micro example but growing up in Cedar Falls and coaching in Iowa City there are so many other things that stood out about a small town with sports. The club systems are not quite as developed, fewer kids to choose from, don't draw coaches that big cities can (due to a variety of reasons but job stability is one with numbers). Kids don't have as much free time in rural areas for sports (found that out the hard way during harvest season). Access to non-school related sports is further away. The population of kids to pull into the school can be 3-4x plus the population of the small towns all drawing to the same, consolidated school, thus leading to a larger talent pool.
Finally, I am not trying to offend any small town people in this post. I had no idea what to expect when I got to my small school/town and realized pretty quickly why there was such a struggle to compete. To the schools that do compete, kudos! You have dedicated parents and coaches willing to go the extra mile and kids committed to getting better.
So what exactly are you against? Schools from bigger population bases? Do you want small town schools to only compete against small town schools so they don't have to go against the big city monsters with access to extra coaching? Because that happens at publics just as much. And I'd argue that the "vast majority" of Xavier kids are not "wealthy". I'd be willing to bet a minority are "wealthy" and a vast majority are middle income families who find a way to make it work. Those are the families I know.
Life has built-in advantages and disadvantages. The kiddos need to know that life isn't always going to be fair and they're going to have the odds against them sometimes. Trying for legislative remedies to make up for the fact that some kids live in towns of 7,000 and attend schools the same size as those who live in cities of 250,000 doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Just like punishing kids who live in cities of 250,000 for attending a school the same size as smaller communities makes zero sense.
Couple of notes on your post....
Sabers should worry about his recipe. Declining numbers is an issue but City was ahead of that curve for several reasons.
Small schools do face challenges, it’s surprising how many kids/teams that can overcome them.
Here is a riddle that most choose to avoid. Which school would you pick
A. Small private school, solid academics, limited facilities, limited arts, AP classes and you have to pay $5-9k for that privilege.
B. Large public school, state and nationally recognized academics, top end facilities, higher paid coaches, strong athletic reputations, top of the line arts programs and you get to pay zero tuition.
So advantages/disadvantages for all schools.
Jesus they are high at every school. Are you really using a “they work harder excuse”. Silly just silly. Not to mention stupid.
Again just silly. How can argue with the logic that someone holding a 35-1 population advantage, None of the iep, and free and reduced problems doesn’t have an advantage.
So by some peoples reasoning on here Linn Mar should wipe the floor with every 4A schooling's the eastern Iowa area, they have the largest enrollment in Cedar Rapids, some of the best facilities in the state, a majority of their families are at least middle class. Yet they are mediocre in most sports. Now why's that? Maybe the private schools excel in some sports because the parents care, hold their kids accountable, make their kids honor their commitments, maybe the kids buy into everything cause they see if they put the work in they can win titles. My High school was and still sort of is dominant in Cross Country cause the kids buy into what the coaches say and they put the work in. Our football team suffered cause we would lose some good athletes to cross country. My point is if you can get a whole community to get with the program and put the work in they are tough to beat.
I guess we wont see eye to eye on this one. This is exactly what I would argue for. The private schools in the large cities should move up one class. Yes, everyone has to learn the haves and the have nots at some point but the purpose of the BEDS document is to level the playing field, which I don't think it is.
For the record, I'm not speaking on the behalf of anyone at my school or even my program. We are a big school team.
Greater Des Moines has twice the population as Cedar Rapids, Dowling has none of the iep and free/reduced problems, and 1,400 students compared to Xavier's 650. Yet putting them in the same division is balancing the playing field?
I played on a state champion Regis team and heard the “recruiting” thing for years. We all played at the Catholic grade schools. If anything we lost a player or two to the public schools. I heard people say I was “scholarshiped” which simply wasn’t true and I grew up anything but “rich”.
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De La Salle. They don’t recruit. They just happen to be a 1000 student Catholic boy’s school that’s almost always ranked among the top teams in the nation. It’s amazing how their community can keep putting out so many incredibly talented Catholic football players. lol
They have more kids out for football than a lot of 4A public schools. They would be a top team
That team would dominate Iowa High School Football. Which is what the thread is about.
What is the cut off for large city? Should Solon move up as well? They are in the middle of two metro areas, draw kids from both, have one of the lowest F&R %’s in the state and seem to get some significant OE athletes in fairly consistently. Does this rule apply when the teams are bad? Until recently Columbus was pretty bad, previously no one complained when they could put the 50 point rule into effect on Regina, but now it’s an issue?
I don’t have a horse in this race, but anyone who describes Xavier students as a bunch of rich kids with every advantage and no academic/behavior issues is either ignorant beyond description or is simply a victim of their own prejudice.
If you look at 8 man football, Don Bosco has no business playing there. They dropped their enrollement and all of a sudden they start winning championships at the 8 man level. That is one example. Also, a team such as St. Alberts in CB has no business playing 1A football. They do keep enrollment down. The issue for them is the emergence of Treynor, the most private public school in Iowa.
A 8 man program such as Remsen St. Marys has been very good at basketball and football since the Remsen public school combined with another town.
8 man should not have a BEDS of 120 kids either. When you have 45 kids on a sideline and a BEDS of 120 it is an issue vs the schools with 80 BEDs and maybe 16-20 kids. Now when you are a private school with a BEDS of 88 and have 42 kids on the sideline..... you know why those boys are at the school.
2A-4A is a different animal to me, but small schools playing teams that are figuring out the system and dropping down to 8 man to win is dumb.
A 8 man program such as Remsen St. Marys has been very good at basketball and football since the Remsen public school combined with another town.
8 man should not have a BEDS of 120 kids either. When you have 45 kids on a sideline and a BEDS of 120 it is an issue vs the schools with 80 BEDs and maybe 16-20 kids. Now when you are a private school with a BEDS of 88 and have 42 kids on the sideline..... you know why those boys are at the school.
2A-4A is a different animal to me, but small schools playing teams that are figuring out the system and dropping down to 8 man to win is dumb.
"Rich Kids", that's funny. I think the numbers would work out to less than you realize on the families at Xavier that can be considered "Rich" or even upper middle class. I know there are some students there whose families are doing quite well, but a lot of families choose to make some sacrifices to allow their children to attend a private school. If you think we don't give up something to pay for tuition, uniform fees for each sport our children play, athletic fees, lunch fees, technology fees, Parking fees, etc.... then you are mislead and greatly misinformed. Also, I believe the number of families receiving some form of monetary assistance is above 40%, although I'd have to double check that number.
There are "scholarships" given out to some kids, and there are athletes that get these "scholarships" before non athletes so they can attend the school. It is certainly circumstantial, but this happens in a handful of places and as a public school supporter it is an unfair advantage as compared to public schools.
There are scholarships offered by families and other organizations that get awarded to individuals that earn them, so I wouldn't begrudge them of that fact. Also, I have never seen or heard of any scholarship for athletics at Xavier, in the 23 years we've had kids attending private schools. So you are mistaken or possibly blinded by your dislike of private schools. Does this happen at other private schools, maybe but you should research things before popping off about them.
Additionally, scholarships are offered to athletes and scholars at the "Public" University you support. Do you hold it against them for earning it or the organizations that offer them? I am certain there are families that cannot afford to send their kids to the "Public" University due to limited funds or inaccessible student loans.
You seriously do not think there are scholarships offered to kids that attend private schools that are athletes? If not scholarships there are usually sudden jobs available for said players family members to come to that town or school. I am not blind to it, it happens all the time. Xavier might not have that happen but it has happened a Heelan for sure. The lure of the option for students to go their for the reputation is there, but there is also the Athletic side to a lot of things for certain athletes attending. It might not be all athletes that attend, but there could be 2-3 athletes that move in from miles away because they want to play there and are a gifted player. And recruiting starts happening.
I as a middle school coach saw it first hand in Omaha from Creighton Prep. They go around to middle schools offering scholarships to the inner city kids to attend their school. They claim it is "academics", but it was always offered to our best football and basketball players. It is shady and they cherry pick all the time. I do not hate private schools, but some of them should be playing in their own league when it comes to 1A schools and below from a football standpoint.
