So ... Feminism
- Thread starter Eternal Return
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Hmmm. Well, I don't think enough has been discovered or proven about how brains develop and function to derive the generalizations you were using. That's not a gendered argument at all, obviously; it's a statement claiming the neuroscience and interpretations of MRIs and CAT scans are not definitive in such a way to make many scientific claims at all.
One reason I say that is because we have only had the technology for a few decades and all of the measurements are of people from this cultural era. We don't know what findings we might have seen in men and women who were hunter gatherers in foreign tribes thousands of years ago. We just don't know very much about whether thinking and behavior is genetic, environmental/cultural, or a combination. We're not nearly as advanced scientifically as we broadcast to one another.
I don't think the example given was properly nuanced... but webster's probably captures it: (I will add... with the caveat that this is done because the recipient is a woman... if a dude did this to everyone in the office then it wouldn't be mansplaning)
noun
informal
noun: mansplaining
- the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.
"your response is classic mansplaining"
Bitch magazine is fringe? Ms magazine is fringe? Bust is fringe? Those are leading feminist magazines and have been for a long time.
How do you know if it's done because she's a woman and not some other reason. Unless the guy says something like "Your a woman so you really wouldn't understand" it's really hard to tell.
I certainly agree that a person labeling another with that term is being an asshole. Actually, I'd say the person is being a misandrist.
Did you just mansplain that to me? Nicely done!
Like I said it is a made up term. It doesn't exist.
Of course we don't know *exactly* why somebody does something, what exactly is running through their head. It's a black box. Yeah, it can be tough stuff. That's why I make accusations judiciously. But obviously patterns of behavior can help elucidate. Obviously we can suss out rhymes and reasons over time.
My wife is incredibly successful. She hates that term. Views it as disrespectful....as if women by their genitals just know everything. That even if they are experts it is beneath them to have someone explain something they already understand. Because that doesn't happen to literally everyone on the planet.
You don't think some guys behave in the way the webster definition would hold? Look, I don't know exactly how prevalent it is, but it certainly doesn't seem outside the purview of human behavior. Especially when we consider all the bizarre behavior encountered between the sexes. (reproduction a big deal, we all play the mating game... bound to be some neurotic behaviors emerge)
I've met some women who hate that term. They usually do not describe themselves as feminists. I have met two self-proclaimed feminists who don't like that word, though, and agree with me that it is harming the feminist movement, costing them female allies as much as male allies. It does seem like an act of childishness posing in place of political philosophy.
I used the word brain loosely. But this behavior, ultimately, is brain stuff. You could throw it under the umbrella of human biology I suppose. (since there are complex interactions with hormones)
Per my understanding, fetal testosterone exposure can have significant affects on brain development and certain behaviors downstream.
Fetal Testosterone Predicts Sexually Differentiated Childhood Behavior in Girls and in Boys
Mammals, including humans, show sex differences in juvenile play behavior. In rodents and nonhuman primates, these behavioral sex differences result, in part, from sex differences in androgens during early development. Girls exposed to high levels of ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Beyond that, there are actual differences in physical construction of the brain between the sexes... how these relate to actual behavior, if at all, isn't too well known.
Brain Connectivity Study Reveals Striking Differences Between Men and Women - Penn Medicine
Penn Medicine Brain Imaging Study Helps Explain Different Cognitive Strengths in Men and Women
www.pennmedicine.org
Hey look, we found all the posters who routinely mansplain. That was easy.
It could be reversed. Anyone could be a mansplainer, but usually it's male to female. Listen, I'm kind of teasing you Hoosier. I know you are a good guy, but I also know you do have issues with feminism. In your first post you explained mansplaining and manspreading, do you think any posters on this forum don't already know the terms? Now if you would have prefaced your definitions with this is what I, Hoosier, believe these terms to mean it wouldn't have been mansplaining.
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I used the word brain loosely. But this behavior, ultimately, is brain stuff. You could throw it under the umbrella of human biology I suppose. (since there are complex interactions with hormones)
Per my understanding, fetal testosterone exposure can have significant affects on brain development and certain behaviors downstream.
Fetal Testosterone Predicts Sexually Differentiated Childhood Behavior in Girls and in Boys
Mammals, including humans, show sex differences in juvenile play behavior. In rodents and nonhuman primates, these behavioral sex differences result, in part, from sex differences in androgens during early development. Girls exposed to high levels of ...
Beyond that, there are actual differences in physical construction of the brain between the sexes... how these relate to actual behavior, if at all, isn't too well known.
Brain Connectivity Study Reveals Striking Differences Between Men and Women - Penn Medicine
Penn Medicine Brain Imaging Study Helps Explain Different Cognitive Strengths in Men and Womenwww.pennmedicine.org
Good stuff. Yeah, the only point I was making is that we don't know how those physiological differences specifically account for behavior. I probably won't live long enough to see those types of associations being determined through scientific exploration.
Agreed, generally a good dude but has a few giant blind spots. All tied to religion. This is one.
I was mocking the fact that they invented these terms to talk about minor sleights when they come from a man. My explaination was more or less mockery which was effective given that it wasn't even detected.
I should invent a few more.
Manglare: Man looked at me in a mean way.
Mandisagreement: man didn't automatically agree with my opinion.
Mancorrection: Man corrected my mistakes
Manpoke: Man drove too slow for my liking
Mancut: man cut me off in traffic
Manhonk: Man honked at me in traffic
Mansitter: Man didn't offer me his seat on the train
Manassist: Man tried to assist me with a heavy object.
Manreacher: Man offered to reach an item that was too high on the self for me to reach without jumping or climbing the shelves.
Anything a man does or fails to do that a woman doesn't like is evidence of his misogyny.
Fair enough but I've had stuff that I understood explained to me by women. Had it done by men too. This is just a common thing period. It's not a pattern of behavior of just men towards women.
The entire liberal mantra is like Puritanism revisited, just they're own bent on what should be. In either case, the individual can't decide for themselves
You should really take a hard look at who your company is in this thread and think to yourself if it's the kind of company you want to keep. If not, perhaps it's time to move into the 21st century with some of your thinking on a few topics.
That sounds kind of aggressive. Have you tried taking it down a notch and going with a softer approach?
Honestly I'm not a band wagon fellow. I determine these things on my own and I don't look to see which groups of people support this and which ones don't. Nor do I concern myself with "being on the right side of history" because that automatically assumes that the future is always going to be right and I think that's a ridiculous assumption on the face of it.
Because not committing sexual harassment isn't an option? If you want to talk about personal responsibility, how about don't sexually harass other people?
As as for the gender gap in employment, have you read or heard a thing about how the pandemic has affected female workers? If not, you should so we can talk about real numbers.
Then make the damn argument if you disagree with him. That's no argument.
That sounds kind of aggressive. Have you tried taking it down a notch and going with a softer approach?
I've learned from this thread that just thinking like a man will fix all that ails me so I should be good to go!
I'm afraid there's some truth to this. The religious overtones attached to certain ideas are troubling. Reason is based on making claims and proving them in some capacity.
Charles Pierce, in his "First Rule of Logic" wrote that the first rule of reason is that in order to learn you must desire to learn and, in so desiring, not be satisfied with what you are already inclined to capably think: Do not block the way if inquiry. Once minds are made up, learning is no longer possible and any political movement that us uninterested in learning is doomed to fail. Unfortunately, the Republicans are philosophically opposed to inquiry so there's no political party to check the Democrats from becoming dogmatic themselves. And that's what seems to have been happening. I know I have given up on having any inquiry-based conversations with Republicans because they don't adhere to anything approximating learning. It would be devastating for society if Democrats ever shirk inquiry-based learning as severely as Republicans have.
Do these magazines consistently deliver the fringe narrative that has your panties all in a bunch?
Remember, we are in the age of intense media competition where pretty much everyone’s strategy is to publish the most extreme shit... because emotion sells.
Look at you.
Late to the thread but laughing at any notion that men as a whole are “tougher” than women and don’t let things bother them. We just spent four years with a President who might be the most fragile person in public life today.
Because that's a silly way to look at things. It's essentially saying "Well if murderers would stop killing people and theives would stop stealing shit." Might as well be saying it would be nice if companies paid their employees better. But only enforcement and law makes anything like that happen.
Yeah sure I would recommend to anyone. . . don't harass people. I'd also like people to be really safe with their guns, but me saying it isn't going to just magically make that happen. I am guessing my recommendations arn't going to change many people's minds.
The way you reduce misbehavior is by punishing it. If you harass you get fired. . . that will cause most people to check themselves. And if the company doesn't do the job than the courts and the law punishes the company for failing to protect their employees.
I'm not interested in temporary fluctuations honestly. The pandemic might be more adverse to female workers because of the fields they work in. If it's a long term problem after the pandemic is over than it's part of the discussion.
*sigh* Have you read any if my other posts in this thread? Specifically starting with the response to Hawkbirch about having a discussion and then starting the discussion? I've moved on from the original post which I admitted in another post that I started the thread poorly. I'm more interested in moving the discussion forward than in litigating my original post.
I thought you and I were going to have a discussion. Did you change your mind? No worries if you did, just let me know if you're not. This thread is over for me if you're not interested any longer.
I'm not even sure what the "mansplaining aspect of feminism" even is but I also don't spend time reading articles about feminism really ever. I get a kick out of the men of HROT discussing feminism or really anything involving females. Funny stuff.
I don't think that shaming through labeling is a particularly effective strategy. I don't have an answer as to why it has become increasingly popular. I also can't explain how certain labels are chosen for things and how the label becomes the entire conversation rather than discussing the underlying behavior.
Yeah...women never commit sexual harassment in the workplace. They never for example comment to each other about men and whether they think he is hot or not or make comments about a man's clothing. Never make sexually suggestive comments at work to men to to their friends about men
In the real world all that happens but if men do it they get fired. If women behave in that manner men are supposed to appreciate it.....lord knows women aren't getting fired for behaving in that manner
It's not silly. Doesn't it seem ****ed up to you that lots of time is spent teaching women how to not get raped? What the hell is wrong with men that women have to spend time learning how to not be victimized by them? It certainly would be nice for me and other moms if you fathers could spend as much time teaching your sons not to assault women as I will spend with my daughters teaching them how to avoid being assaulted.
it was a tongue in cheek response to a tongue in cheek post.
I am happy to keep talking with you but understand that there are others who aren't able to allow that to happen.
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