So this Sides, Clark, Fever saga…

[eyesofhawk]

Depends on what I was looking for. Wilson is a great scorer, no doubt, but Clark has better all around skills and Clark is at the beginning or her rookie season. And Clark should have made the Olympics. I guess you would take Taurasi over Clark right now seeing as how Taurasi made the Olympic team.

No, I wouldn't take Taurasi over Clark right now. But I believe 12 players made the Olympic roster. So if you eliminate Taurasi, that leaves 11 players that evidently you are making a case that Clark is better than.

With all things being equal, if you're picking your team in a game of pick-up ball, do you pick Clark or Wilson?

Are you walking back on your statement that CC is the best you've ever seen?

 

[eyesofhawk]

At the end of the day, when the dust settles, let ANYONE who disrespects Iowa's own Caitlin Clark be cast into The Abyss!!!!!!

I don't think any Iowan has been disrespecting CC, other than a couple of pathetic ISU fans that I've heard.

So I'm assuming you don't yet consider Ferentz, the fossil himself (according to you), an Iowan?

How do you feel about Kadyn Proctor? He's from Iowa

 

[ddeanHawk]

I don't think any Iowan has been disrespecting CC, other than a couple of pathetic ISU fans that I've heard.

So I'm assuming you don't yet consider Ferentz, the fossil himself (according to you), an Iowan?

How do you feel about Kadyn Proctor? He's from Iowa

Kadyn proctor is a big douche bag

 

[cmhawks99]

I don't think any Iowan has been disrespecting CC, other than a couple of pathetic ISU fans that I've heard.

So I'm assuming you don't yet consider Ferentz, the fossil himself (according to you), an Iowan?

How do you feel about Kadyn Proctor? He's from Iowa

As you know, the Doc considers KF sub human 🤷‍♂️ he’d like to have the Waldorf or Dordt or whomever the team is, he is always yammering abouts, head coach

 

[cmhawks99]

No, I wouldn't take Taurasi over Clark right now. But I believe 12 players made the Olympic roster. So if you eliminate Taurasi, that leaves 11 players that evidently you are making a case that Clark is better than.

With all things being equal, if you're picking your team in a game of pick-up ball, do you pick Clark or Wilson?

Are you walking back on your statement that CC is the best you've ever seen?

Arike & Hambry got hosed and I don’t care if CC is on the Olympic team🤷‍♂️

 

[eyesofhawk]

As you know, the Doc considers KF sub human 🤷‍♂️ he’d like to have the Waldorf or Dordt or whomever the team is, he is always yammering abouts, head coach

Lol. Yep.

Clearly I was talking an opportunity to give the Doc some crap, as anyone who thinks KF should be gone deserves

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Disrespectful to athletes and coaches that devote their lives to their craft so it can be consumed by fans to satisfy their entertainment needs, and often in a selfish way.

Many fans barely even understand a certain sport, yet feel the need to rip athletes and call for coaches jobs. And pretty much none of them have any inside info that's pertinent to a lot of the decisions that are made on a playing field.

For many, it's all about what can the athletes do for the fans. And "what have you done for me lately"?

Take the Iowa vs Purdue football game a few years ago. Iowa had just gotten its fanbase to #2 in the nation. Something that comes around every few decades and something to allow people to actually feel proud to be an Iowan. And barely into the 4th quarter fans started flooding out of Kinnick. There was plenty of time to mount a comeback. And even if there wasn't, if there was ever a time to stand behind your team and continue to support and give them energy, it was then. I will never forget how disgusting it was to see those fans flooding out.

There were literally people on this board that were claiming they wouldn't watch Iowa football this season if Hill were the QB. After Iowa had just won 10 games the previous season. Just complete selfishness. I'm embarrassed that those people call themselves Hawkeye fans.

Just yesterday there was a poster on here talking about how he gave up his season tickets to San Diego St. basketball because he couldn't stand their low scoring games. This is a program that just made the NCAA championship game two seasons ago. And out of the Mountain West conference mind you. Maybe he's a Hawkeye fan at heart. But that's someone who clearly valued his own entertainment over winning.

This stuff is completely offensive to athletes and coaches that have devoted their lives to their craft and to winning.

Annual surveys of high school coaches always show that the least favorite part of their job is dealing with parents and the community. College and pro sports aren't much different. Stupid and disrespectful fans make coaches and athletes lives harder. And amazingly enough, they're usually doing it to the team that they root for. But clearly this isn't something that out of line fans would be willing to take into consideration

 

[AWS1022]

No, I wouldn't take Taurasi over Clark right now. But I believe 12 players made the Olympic roster. So if you eliminate Taurasi, that leaves 11 players that evidently you are making a case that Clark is better than.

With all things being equal, if you're picking your team in a game of pick-up ball, do you pick Clark or Wilson?

Are you walking back on your statement that CC is the best you've ever seen?

Absolutely not, Clark is the best I’ve ever seen….she’s playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. But if I have a team with a pretty good PG already (Chelsea Gray for example) and I needed a scorer then I’d take Wilson. But if I was starting a team from scratch, I’d take Clark.

 

[cmhawks99]

Absolutely not, Clark is the best I’ve ever seen….she’s playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. But if I have a team with a pretty good PG already (Chelsea Gray for example) and I needed a scorer then I’d take Wilson. But if I was starting a team from scratch, I’d take Clark.

Well i think that is the question, who do you build a team around first and foremost and second of all do you want a 29-year-old Wilson or a 22-year-old playmaker?

With that, said CC is certainly one of the 20 best players in women’s basketball, but she is not the best yet, that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t still be the most draftable commodity but she is not yet the best

 

[AWS1022]

Well i think that is the question, who do you build a team around first and foremost and second of all do you want a 29-year-old Wilson or a 22-year-old playmaker?

With that, said CC is certainly one of the 20 best players in women’s basketball, but she is not the best yet, that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t still be the most draftable commodity but she is not yet the best

But she does have the best overall skill set. If other players were judged with the same standards that are used to judge Clark, they’d all be considered overrated.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Absolutely not, Clark is the best I’ve ever seen….she’s playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. But if I have a team with a pretty good PG already (Chelsea Gray for example) and I needed a scorer then I’d take Wilson. But if I was starting a team from scratch, I’d take Clark.

That why I said all things being equal; meaning both players would be surrounded by a capable team at all positions.

I appreciate that you're taking into account the fact that it is a team sport. At the same time I would think if CC is "absolutely the best", then she would be the absolute answer. Would you word your answer the same way if Jordan and Shaq were your options?

In the end though, you did say Clark is your team-starter, so I'll quit bugging you.

I do think you minimize Wilson's game with a "scorer" label though. Height always has and always will play in the game of basketball in a variety of ways

 

[eyesofhawk]

Well i think that is the question, who do you build a team around first and foremost and second of all do you want a 29-year-old Wilson or a 22-year-old playmaker?

With that, said CC is certainly one of the 20 best players in women’s basketball, but she is not the best yet, that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t still be the most draftable commodity but she is not yet the best

That wasn't the question or the topic

 

[eyesofhawk]

Well i think that is the question, who do you build a team around first and foremost and second of all do you want a 29-year-old Wilson or a 22-year-old playmaker?

With that, said CC is certainly one of the 20 best players in women’s basketball, but she is not the best yet, that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t still be the most draftable commodity but she is not yet the best

That wasn't the question or the topic

An interesting aside nonetheless.

Didn't mean to be short with you. Was clocking into work

 

[DanHawkPella]

Well i think that is the question, who do you build a team around first and foremost and second of all do you want a 29-year-old Wilson or a 22-year-old playmaker?

With that, said CC is certainly one of the 20 best players in women’s basketball, but she is not the best yet, that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t still be the most draftable commodity but she is not yet the best

She did hit a legit floater against the Storm, one of the few I've ever seen from her at any level. If she can do that more consistently it would open up more shots for her, rather than penetrating and dishing or keeping her dribble and dribbling back out.

My theory is that Clark, as a big PG, has never had to develop the floater like some 5'6" guards had to do growing up.

 

[AWS1022]

That why I said all things being equal; meaning both players would be surrounded by a capable team at all positions.

I appreciate that you're taking into account the fact that it is a team sport. At the same time I would think if CC is "absolutely the best", then she would be the absolute answer. Would you word your answer the same way if Jordan and Shaq were your options?

In the end though, you did say Clark is your team-starter, so I'll quit bugging you.

I do think you minimize Wilson's game with a "scorer" label though. Height always has and always will play in the game of basketball in a variety of ways

But if we’re going to judge her the same way Clark gets judged then we have to slam her because she doesn’t get enough assists. I mean Clark is expected to get points, assists, rebounds, and have very few turnovers and she’s a PG. And please remember, Jordan wasn’t picked first when he came out of college. I think in three or four years everyone will say they would take Clark first no matter what, much like Jordan now.

 

[eyesofhawk]

But if we’re going to judge her the same way Clark gets judged then we have to slam her because she doesn’t get enough assists. I mean Clark is expected to get points, assists, rebounds, and have very few turnovers and she’s a PG. And please remember, Jordan wasn’t picked first when he came out of college. I think in three or four years everyone will say they would take Clark first no matter what, much like Jordan now.

Clark is questioned because people overrated her in the first place. I mean, after all, if she is the GOAT it's supposed to look a lot better than this right? Many fans have no ability to see a realistic middle ground.

But none of that, nor what Jordan's draft position was, nor the fact that CC is a rookie has anything to do with whether or not you feel Caitlin is the best player you've ever seen.

It just leads me to believe it necessary to further pin you down. Are you standing by the statement that Clark is the best player you've ever seen, or would saying that she has the best skillset you've seen more accurately describe your position?

 

[AWS1022]

Clark is questioned because people overrated her in the first place. I mean, after all, if she is the GOAT it's supposed to look a lot better than this right? Many fans have no ability to see a realistic middle ground.

But none of that, nor what Jordan's draft position was, nor the fact that CC is a rookie has anything to do with whether or not you feel Caitlin is the best player you've ever seen.

It just leads me to believe it necessary to further pin you down. Are you standing by the statement that Clark is the best player you've ever seen, or would saying that she has the best skillset you've seen more accurately describe your position?

She is the best all around player I’ve ever seen…she does everything well and that’s rare in the women’s game. There are players that handle the ball better than her, rebound better than her, play better defense than her, etc. but no one is as good at everything as she is. And if she had the right coach and a better team around her, she would either lead the league in scoring or assists. And if she’s not the best player these opposing coaches have ever seen, then they all need to be fired for keying their whole defense on a player that’s not the best and not doing it against players they feel are better.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Clark is questioned because people overrated her in the first place. I mean, after all, if she is the GOAT it's supposed to look a lot better than this right? Many fans have no ability to see a realistic middle ground.

But none of that, nor what Jordan's draft position was, nor the fact that CC is a rookie has anything to do with whether or not you feel Caitlin is the best player you've ever seen.

It just leads me to believe it necessary to further pin you down. Are you standing by the statement that Clark is the best player you've ever seen, or would saying that she has the best skillset you've seen more accurately describe your position?

You realize you're putting a lot of words into even more people's mouths every time you keep whining about Caitlin being called the best ever, etc etc etc right?................................sure you do.

🫠


P.S. it's the same f***ing problem that the Angel Reese fans/anti-Caitlin fans find themselves in, except you're not deliberately trying to attack or downplay her achievements.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

She is the best all around player I’ve ever seen…she does everything well and that’s rare in the women’s game. There are players that handle the ball better than her, rebound better than her, play better defense than her, etc. but no one is as good at everything as she is. And if she had the right coach and a better team around her, she would either lead the league in scoring or assists. And if she’s not the best player these opposing coaches have ever seen, then they all need to be fired for keying their whole defense on a player that’s not the best and not doing it against players they feel are better.

Yeah it's funny. We don't see teams playing this same style of defense and living with the consequences against the other scorers in the league. Are they suggesting this kind of defense is a one-year-only special?...............

Of course by that same token, why don't the Fever return the favor by doubling and blitzing their opponents' best players? And what does that say about them if they simply can't?..................

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

She is the best all around player I’ve ever seen…she does everything well and that’s rare in the women’s game. There are players that handle the ball better than her, rebound better than her, play better defense than her, etc. but no one is as good at everything as she is. And if she had the right coach and a better team around her, she would either lead the league in scoring or assists. And if she’s not the best player these opposing coaches have ever seen, then they all need to be fired for keying their whole defense on a player that’s not the best and not doing it against players they feel are better.

Great post! I agree with everything.

Unfortunately I think this is too smart of a basketball evaluation for eyesofhawk.

He’s not an elite sports mind. Just a typical average fan level mind.

 

[eyesofhawk]

She is the best all around player I’ve ever seen…she does everything well and that’s rare in the women’s game. There are players that handle the ball better than her, rebound better than her, play better defense than her, etc. but no one is as good at everything as she is. And if she had the right coach and a better team around her, she would either lead the league in scoring or assists. And if she’s not the best player these opposing coaches have ever seen, then they all need to be fired for keying their whole defense on a player that’s not the best and not doing it against players they feel are better.

So now you're phrasing it as CC is the best all-around player.

So I'm going to interpret all of this as you've walked back on your original statement that CC is the best player you ever seen. I've given you many opportunities to simply double down on your original statement and each time you've chosen an alternate wording

 

[eyesofhawk]

You realize you're putting a lot of words into even more people's mouths every time you keep whining about Caitlin being called the best ever, etc etc etc right?................................sure you do.

🫠


P.S. it's the same f***ing problem that the Angel Reese fans/anti-Caitlin fans find themselves in, except you're not deliberately trying to attack or downplay her achievements.

I don't happen to think that at this point in her career CC is the GOAT or the best ever.

I've just tried to pin down how exactly AW feels because he keeps mincing his words.

My only problem all along has been with people that have barely ever watched women's basketball recklessly anointing a college player the GOAT because GOAT crowning is considered a cool thing to do these days. I warned all along that this was going to piss a lot of pros off, and I was right

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I don't happen to think that at this point in her career CC is the GOAT or the best ever.

I've just tried to pin down how exactly AW feels because he keeps mincing his words.

My only problem all along has been with people that have barely ever watched women's basketball recklessly anointing a college player the GOAT because GOAT crowning is considered a cool thing to do these days. I warned all along that this was going to piss a lot of pros off, and I was right

And I told you that they are factually wrong for misplacing the target of their ire. The pros getting pissed is also entirely their fault/personal problem.

 

[Iron Doc]

I don't think any Iowan has been disrespecting CC, other than a couple of pathetic ISU fans that I've heard.

So I'm assuming you don't yet consider Ferentz, the fossil himself (according to you), an Iowan?

How do you feel about Kadyn Proctor? He's from Iowa

I was in reference to outsiders; of course no one on HERE is disrespecting Clark.

What does the Head Fossil Coach have to do with Clark?

 

[Iron Doc]

As you know, the Doc considers KF sub human 🤷‍♂️ he’d like to have the Waldorf or Dordt or whomever the team is, he is always yammering abouts, head coach

Subhuman no, fossilized yes.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

I don't happen to think that at this point in her career CC is the GOAT or the best ever.

I've just tried to pin down how exactly AW feels because he keeps mincing his words.

My only problem all along has been with people that have barely ever watched women's basketball recklessly anointing a college player the GOAT because GOAT crowning is considered a cool thing to do these days. I warned all along that this was going to piss a lot of pros off, and I was right

Man, you always wrong??

Looks like GOAT just lit up your girl Taurasi.

Crazy watching the best ever to play the game almost get a trip-dub today!

 

[BonzoFury]

She is the best all around player I’ve ever seen…she does everything well and that’s rare in the women’s game. There are players that handle the ball better than her, rebound better than her, play better defense than her, etc. but no one is as good at everything as she is. And if she had the right coach and a better team around her, she would either lead the league in scoring or assists. And if she’s not the best player these opposing coaches have ever seen, then they all need to be fired for keying their whole defense on a player that’s not the best and not doing it against players they feel are better.

For someone who came in with an identity as a 3 point shooter, it's impressive how complete her stat line is. CC has really shown she can play a complete game. A lot of her critics should be eating their words.

 

[eyesofhawk]

And I told you that they are factually wrong for misplacing the target of their ire. The pros getting pissed is also entirely their fault/personal problem.

To be more clear, I have no problems with CC. I think she's amazing and I appreciate her helping to cash my Fever money line bet today.

It's the crowning craze that I can't stand. A cool acronym was created to honor those that are actually the greatest of all time in their sport. And it's been ruined.

Maybe some of you aren't aware that it's become the "in" thing these days to call everything under the sun a GOAT. A recent one I remember is people calling Jaylen Brown the GOAT after he hit the game-tying 3 against the Pacers.

This is disrespectful to and minimizes the accomplishments of actual GOATS. These are athletes that should never be minimized in any way.

I don't think any women's basketball player should be called the GOAT. I think there are several all-time greats. And there just isn't a big enough difference between any of them that's GOAT worthy.

I even have a problem with how common it's become to call Brady the GOAT in football. The positions in football are so unique that I don't think there should be a football GOAT. Yes, QB has become the most important position in the sport. But it hasn't always been that way.

As for WNBA players taking offense to the crowning of a college player: again, it's more than their personal problem. They've taken it out on CC

 

[AWS1022]

So now you're phrasing it as CC is the best all-around player.

So I'm going to interpret all of this as you've walked back on your original statement that CC is the best player you ever seen. I've given you many opportunities to simply double down on your original statement and each time you've chosen an alternate wording

I will double down or triple down if you want, she is the best player I’ve ever seen. I explained why but you seem to take that as walking back my original statement, which I haven’t. She is the best player I’ve ever seen because she’s good at every aspect of the game and that’s rare for a player in the women’s game.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Man, you always wrong??

Looks like GOAT just lit up your girl Taurasi.

Crazy watching the best ever to play the game almost get a trip-dub today!

Man it's hard to be as moronic as you.

I've stated in this very thread that at this point I would take Clark over Taurasi

 

[eyesofhawk]

Subhuman no, fossilized yes.

Somehow I don't think a fossil would have won 10 games last season

 

[eyesofhawk]

I will double down or triple down if you want, she is the best player I’ve ever seen. I explained why but you seem to take that as walking back my original statement, which I haven’t. She is the best player I’ve ever seen because she’s good at every aspect of the game and that’s rare for a player in the women’s game.

Fair enough, you finally said it.

Sometimes people don't interpret "best player" and "best all-around player" as being the same thing. Thus my request for further explanation

 

[Iron Doc]

Somehow I don't think a fossil would have won 10 games last season

Somehow I don't think a fossil would have won 10 games last season

Phil & LeVar say you're welcome.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Phil & LeVar say you're welcome.

Do you recall who hired those guys?

Are Phil and LeVar getting the blame for the 4 loses?

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Man it's hard to be as moronic as you.

I've stated in this very thread that at this point I would take Clark over Taurasi

So you admit you’d take the GOAT over Taurasi?

 

[Iron Doc]

Do you recall who hired those guys?

Are Phil and LeVar getting the blame for the 4 loses?

So what regarding who hired them?
Past tense.

Phil & LeVar did their jobs.
Biff, running HIS PAPPY'S Offense, most definitely did not.
I have wondered what Biff could have done with a completely different offense.

 

[eyesofhawk]

So what regarding who hired them?
Past tense.

Phil & LeVar did their jobs.
Biff, running HIS PAPPY'S Offense, most definitely did not.
I have wondered what Biff could have done with a completely different offense.

"So what" that KF hired the guys you're giving the credit to? Lmao. You can't be that clueless.

Phil and LeVar did their jobs just like KF did his job by hiring them.

If anything, Brian was running a version of the Patriots offense.

Do you ever find it strange to believe that KF had nothing to do with the defense and special teams, but somehow had his hands all over the offense?

At least you didn't disappear from the thread this time like you've usually done when I've proven you wrong.

See you over on the football board

 

[Iron Doc]

"So what" that KF hired the guys you're giving the credit to? Lmao. You can't be that clueless.

Phil and LeVar did their jobs just like KF did his job by hiring them.

If anything, Brian was running a version of the Patriots offense.

Do you ever find it strange to believe that KF had nothing to do with the defense and special teams, but somehow had his hands all over the offense?

At least you didn't disappear from the thread this time like you've usually done when I've proven you wrong.

See you over on the football board

We are talking about the present.
Pappy/Biff had the worst offense on the planet in 2022-2023.

Pappy controlled the offense through Biff, and wisely left Phil & LeVar to their own devices.

IF Pappy lets Lester ACTUALLY innovate, and if Lester innovates competently, things could change for the better.
Time will tell.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

To be more clear, I have no problems with CC. I think she's amazing and I appreciate her helping to cash my Fever money line bet today. (Atta boy.... )

It's the crowning craze that I can't stand. A cool acronym was created to honor those that are actually the greatest of all time in their sport. And it's been ruined.

Maybe some of you aren't aware that it's become the "in" thing these days to call everything under the sun a GOAT. A recent one I remember is people calling Jaylen Brown the GOAT after he hit the game-tying 3 against the Pacers.

This is disrespectful to and minimizes the accomplishments of actual GOATS. These are athletes that should never be minimized in any way. (Minimized like Caitlin, or were you including her? But also.............)

I don't think any women's basketball player should be called the GOAT. (Is that why you take issue with people sharing their own opinions about who was/is the best?.....................Because you don't think they should be? Interesting...........) I think there are several all-time greats. And there just isn't a big enough difference between any of them that's GOAT worthy.

I even have a problem with how common it's become to call Brady the GOAT in football. The positions in football are so unique that I don't think there should be a football GOAT. Yes, QB has become the most important position in the sport. But it hasn't always been that way.

As for WNBA players taking offense to the crowning of a college player: again, it's more than their personal problem.

It isnt more than that, but by all means.......they're the ones with the problem. Just because they "make it someone else's problem" doesn't excuse who has the problem in the first place.

They've taken it out on CC

I know...................................................................

 

[eyesofhawk]

We are talking about the present.
Pappy/Biff had the worst offense on the planet in 2022-2023.

Pappy controlled the offense through Biff, and wisely left Phil & LeVar to their own devices.

IF Pappy lets Lester ACTUALLY innovate, and if Lester innovates competently, things could change for the better.
Time will tell.

Nevermind