Some observations from tonight v BC

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Yes clearly, Fran is ok with Pat probing the lane with the dribble despite the results but it did largely go away twoards the end of last year and Patrick was a far more efficient player for it.

Patrick does have the ability to handle the ball but its mostly negated by playing the 3 where his defender is smaller, lower and quicker.

If Fran wants to iso Pat he should put him in some ball screens with Philip where he can get a big switched onto him.
Good idea. 1 or 2 dribbles than begin closer to the basket. The smaller guys get a hand on the ball or just stay ahead until P McC gets into the lane with nowhere to go and nothing to do but throw up an awkward shot. Patrick also looks down at the ball whenever he's suddenly defended.

Edit: Patrick should work on a better pull up jumper. Drive it down to 20 and stop and shoot. Patrick gets lots of open looks that turns down for driving into a crowd.
 
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Herky T Hawk

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Patrick needs to watch video of Aaron White. He should be a guy receiving dump offs at the rim or while slashing to the rim. Add to that streaking down one side of the court on a fast break and the occasional wide open jumper. That would fit his athleticism and skill set. He definitely shouldn’t be trying to drive the ball from the three point line.
 

kcgolfer

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Patrick had an off night which happens. What is getting to borderline on the absurd is how fundamentally bad he is with the dribble. I thought he showed signs he was growing out of this towards the end of last season but last night was bad decision after bad decision off the bounce.

He has a great skill set for Fran's system-- long, athletic, can score at all 3 levels, etc., but he needs a reality check on his ballhandling skills. Take the open 3, use a couple bounces to get to a spot for a pull up or kick and get out in transition. Let Perkins, Ulis, Bowen, etc., attack off the bounce.
Agree 100%. Patrick thinks he’s a point guard and he is not. Dribbles into trouble way too much especially for a coach’s kid.
 
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kcgolfer

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Patrick had an off night which happens. What is getting to borderline on the absurd is how fundamentally bad he is with the dribble. I thought he showed signs he was growing out of this towards the end of last season but last night was bad decision after bad decision off the bounce.

He has a great skill set for Fran's system-- long, athletic, can score at all 3 levels, etc., but he needs a reality check on his ballhandling skills. Take the open 3, use a couple bounces to get to a spot for a pull up or kick and get out in transition. Let Perkins, Ulis, Bowen, etc., attack off the bounce.
Agree 100%. Patrick thinks he’s a point guard and he is not. Dribbles into trouble way too much especially for a coach’s kid.
 

kcgolfer

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Patrick had an off night which happens. What is getting to borderline on the absurd is how fundamentally bad he is with the dribble. I thought he showed signs he was growing out of this towards the end of last season but last night was bad decision after bad decision off the bounce.

He has a great skill set for Fran's system-- long, athletic, can score at all 3 levels, etc., but he needs a reality check on his ballhandling skills. Take the open 3, use a couple bounces to get to a spot for a pull up or kick and get out in transition. Let Perkins, Ulis, Bowen, etc., attack off the bounce.
Agree 100%. Patrick thinks he’s a point guard and he is not. Dribbles into trouble way too much especially for a coach’s kid.
 
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walleye hunter16

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Patrick needs to watch video of Aaron White. He should be a guy receiving dump offs at the rim or while slashing to the rim. Add to that streaking down one side of the court on a fast break and the occasional wide open jumper. That would fit his athleticism and skill set. He definitely shouldn’t be trying to drive the ball from the three point line.
The penetration part is okay but he needs to pull up or see the pass way more than he does. Always gets stuck in an awkward shooting passing situation.
He also avoids contact when he gets them in a bad position, draw the foul, make them stop you, quit shying away and making it easier on them.
 
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Feb 13, 2005
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  • Rebraca.
    • I'm really interested to see how Rebraca performs against stronger competition. Last year he was a "do no harm" player - all we wanted from him was to hold his own. I expected more of the same from him this year. It could be that he just looked good against a weak Bethune-Cookman team, but I think it was more than that. He looked like he had an extra gear that he didn't have last year.
  • Perkins.
    • Looks like an All Big Ten player. I wasn't sure if I saw him being able to play the PG position at a high level, but he looked natural. 5 assists to 1 turnover, his handles looked great, and he's playing with great confidence.
  • Sandfort.
    • I had/have doubts about him at SG, but he looked very good. Similar to Rebraca, he seemed to have an extra gear that he didn't have last year. I love his game and wish Wieskamp would have had Sandfort's mentality. Still don't think Sandfort has the same athleticism Wieskamp did, but his aggressiveness could make Sandfort a more prolific scorer than Wieskamp. It felt like his shot was just a little off, but he finished 5-11 overall and 3-9 from 3 which is not bad. If he can hold his own defensively at the 2, I think we have a great starting 5.
  • Murray.
    • Played exactly as expected. He's going to be great this year. Won't score as much as Keegan, but will be a better distributor.
  • Patrick.
    • Disappointed in what I saw from him, and he had 12 points, 6 boards, and just 1 turnover. I think he could be great (he has a ton of tools to work with), but too often it seems like he's disrupting our offensive flow and he lacks body control in traffic. If he can get just a little stronger with the ball, and more decisive in his decision making, it would be a game changer.
  • Bowen.
    • I see both a high floor and high ceiling. Athletic, good size, natural with the ball, and showed good vision. The difference between his floor and ceiling will be his outside shot. If he doesn't develop a consistent outside shot, his floor is Mike Gesell. His ceiling is the best PG in the Fran era.
  • Ulis.
    • Made quality contributions without hitting an outside shot. I couldn't tell who he was on a couple rebounds because he looked like a forward. Showed ability to beat his man off the dribble, good vision, and 0 turnovers. Outside shot doesn't look great, I'm hoping it can merely be average.
  • Connor.
    • Solid. As long as he can hit outside shots, he's a valuable player with his versatility and experience.
  • Dix.
    • Looked good other than his outside shot not falling. Don't expect a ton of minutes from him this year, but if he can hit jumpers he can provide some depth.
  • Ogundele.
    • Not ready to be a consistent contributor. Doubt he ever will. Can provide some depth in spurts.
  • Mulvey.
    • Only played 3 minutes. I would've guessed Mulvey be ahead of Ogundele in the rotation. I take that as a bad sign of what Mulvey has looked like in practice.
 

Mohawkeye

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The penetration part is okay but he needs to pull up or see the pass way more than he does. Always gets stuck in an awkward shooting passing situation.
He also avoids contact when he gets them in a bad position, draw the foul, make them stop you, quit shying away and making it easier on them.
This exactly. And he was doing that at the end of last season, effectively. He needs to stick to 3 point shots or the pull up jumper. Hopefully this game is an aberration in the general trend of his development.
 

unoHawkeye

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Patrick needs to watch video of Aaron White. He should be a guy receiving dump offs at the rim or while slashing to the rim. Add to that streaking down one side of the court on a fast break and the occasional wide open jumper. That would fit his athleticism and skill set. He definitely shouldn’t be trying to drive the ball from the three point line.
His oop attempt at the end of the first half was reminiscent of White! Pass was just off
 

RocknRollface

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Patrick needs to watch video of Aaron White. He should be a guy receiving dump offs at the rim or while slashing to the rim. Add to that streaking down one side of the court on a fast break and the occasional wide open jumper. That would fit his athleticism and skill set. He definitely shouldn’t be trying to drive the ball from the three point line.
Aaron White tried to drive the ball from the 3pt line all the time every game. Driving the ball and getting fouled was his primary offense.

The difference is White took the ball straight to the rim and sought out contact with his drives while Patrick goes half speed and avoids it.

Receiving dump offs at the rim is a product of the pg more so than the recipient of the pass.

If you don't think Pat tries to get out on the break enough you're not paying attention, he's usually the first guy to take off.

The more Patrick embraces contact the better off he will be.

The thing he should take from White is that crashing into defenders will usually draw a foul on them.
 
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RocknRollface

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The penetration part is okay but he needs to pull up or see the pass way more than he does. Always gets stuck in an awkward shooting passing situation.
He also avoids contact when he gets them in a bad position, draw the foul, make them stop you, quit shying away and making it easier on them.
Bingo.

The weird thing is Connor is the exact opposite, he absorbs contact with no hesitation.
 
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Vbeachawk

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For supposedly being a good shooter, Dix's shot from range is very flat. Seeing that, it didn't surprise me his shots weren't going in.
 

HoustonREDHawk

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Very little to not be optimistic about so far this season. Only position I am worried about is center in the minutes Mulvey isn't playing. I would prefer that Kris stick with 4, where we also don't have great depth. We are very deep, talented, and versatile at 1-3.

I know some are pulling for Josh O, but I don't see him ever providing more than a few valuable minutes, especially against teams with brutes at center. I am not at practice, but I would sure love to see Mulvey play some meaningful minutes in the next few games to see what he can do. As others have said, the coaches must not be seeing much from him in practice...
 

WildIowaCat

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My view as an Arizona/Iowa fan.
The defense is definitely improved. But it’s going to very reliant on extreme energy and effort rather than raw talent and scheme. Unfortunately that might tire the legs a bit and lead to shooting lulls until they peak for the season.
The depth will be extremely important to develop and be used in games throughout the season for valuable experience come the end of season for tourney aspirations.
Rebraca-
Looks transformed, another poster said he looked taller. Well while we all know that’s unlikely, he has transformed his body and what we are seeing is another level of explosiveness. The extra verticality will serve him well as long as he remains high motor.
Kris-
Looks even calmer than his brother, which is fine as long as he can remain aggressive.
Ulis-
I really liked what I saw and if he finishes some of the plays he almost made last night he would have stood out obviously less than Perkins and a tiny bit more than Dasonte.
Perkins-
looks to be at college star level, but not quite to “leave for the NBA level” if he goes off and up a couple tiers he will play there some day.
Dasonte-
Kid will be a star and a scoring lead guard at Iowa. The talent and skill is there, looks to have the intangibles as well.
Josh O-
Needs to take up Boxing lessons for conditioning and to refine what could be excellent footwork with hands that need work. Reminds me of poor man’s Omar Ballo at Arizona who had similar issues. He worked at boxing and it really helped.

Everyone else is where they should be as the coaches son’s are solid especially with Connor’s improved three point shooting and Dix ( freshman coming off terrible injury) and Payton are also going to be solid.

Just knowing the defense is going to be possibly better is encouraging, pretty confident the offense will be just fine.
 

fivecardstud14

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My view as an Arizona/Iowa fan.
The defense is definitely improved. But it’s going to very reliant on extreme energy and effort rather than raw talent and scheme. Unfortunately that might tire the legs a bit and lead to shooting lulls until they peak for the season.
The depth will be extremely important to develop and be used in games throughout the season for valuable experience come the end of season for tourney aspirations.
Rebraca-
Looks transformed, another poster said he looked taller. Well while we all know that’s unlikely, he has transformed his body and what we are seeing is another level of explosiveness. The extra verticality will serve him well as long as he remains high motor.
Kris-
Looks even calmer than his brother, which is fine as long as he can remain aggressive.
Ulis-
I really liked what I saw and if he finishes some of the plays he almost made last night he would have stood out obviously less than Perkins and a tiny bit more than Dasonte.
Perkins-
looks to be at college star level, but not quite to “leave for the NBA level” if he goes off and up a couple tiers he will play there some day.
Dasonte-
Kid will be a star and a scoring lead guard at Iowa. The talent and skill is there, looks to have the intangibles as well.
Josh O-
Needs to take up Boxing lessons for conditioning and to refine what could be excellent footwork with hands that need work. Reminds me of poor man’s Omar Ballo at Arizona who had similar issues. He worked at boxing and it really helped.

Everyone else is where they should be as the coaches son’s are solid especially with Connor’s improved three point shooting and Dix ( freshman coming off terrible injury) and Payton are also going to be solid.

Just knowing the defense is going to be possibly better is encouraging, pretty confident the offense will be just fine.
Hawks & Arizona? You must be a huge Justin Wessel fan.
 

owenhawk

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Patrick had an off night which happens. What is getting to borderline on the absurd is how fundamentally bad he is with the dribble. I thought he showed signs he was growing out of this towards the end of last season but last night was bad decision after bad decision off the bounce.

He has a great skill set for Fran's system-- long, athletic, can score at all 3 levels, etc., but he needs a reality check on his ballhandling skills. Take the open 3, use a couple bounces to get to a spot for a pull up or kick and get out in transition. Let Perkins, Ulis, Bowen, etc., attack off the bounce.
I'm not too worried about Patrick. Last night was a bad night but of course that's not a game he is needed to be good. He has proven last year that he is a solid - if flawed - player and there will be some games (big games when it's needed) that he will go off and carry the team offensively for at least part of a game.
 

owenhawk

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  • Rebraca.
    • I'm really interested to see how Rebraca performs against stronger competition. Last year he was a "do no harm" player - all we wanted from him was to hold his own. I expected more of the same from him this year. It could be that he just looked good against a weak Bethune-Cookman team, but I think it was more than that. He looked like he had an extra gear that he didn't have last year.
  • Perkins.
    • Looks like an All Big Ten player. I wasn't sure if I saw him being able to play the PG position at a high level, but he looked natural. 5 assists to 1 turnover, his handles looked great, and he's playing with great confidence.
  • Sandfort.
    • I had/have doubts about him at SG, but he looked very good. Similar to Rebraca, he seemed to have an extra gear that he didn't have last year. I love his game and wish Wieskamp would have had Sandfort's mentality. Still don't think Sandfort has the same athleticism Wieskamp did, but his aggressiveness could make Sandfort a more prolific scorer than Wieskamp. It felt like his shot was just a little off, but he finished 5-11 overall and 3-9 from 3 which is not bad. If he can hold his own defensively at the 2, I think we have a great starting 5.
  • Murray.
    • Played exactly as expected. He's going to be great this year. Won't score as much as Keegan, but will be a better distributor.
  • Patrick.
    • Disappointed in what I saw from him, and he had 12 points, 6 boards, and just 1 turnover. I think he could be great (he has a ton of tools to work with), but too often it seems like he's disrupting our offensive flow and he lacks body control in traffic. If he can get just a little stronger with the ball, and more decisive in his decision making, it would be a game changer.
  • Bowen.
    • I see both a high floor and high ceiling. Athletic, good size, natural with the ball, and showed good vision. The difference between his floor and ceiling will be his outside shot. If he doesn't develop a consistent outside shot, his floor is Mike Gesell. His ceiling is the best PG in the Fran era.
  • Ulis.
    • Made quality contributions without hitting an outside shot. I couldn't tell who he was on a couple rebounds because he looked like a forward. Showed ability to beat his man off the dribble, good vision, and 0 turnovers. Outside shot doesn't look great, I'm hoping it can merely be average.
  • Connor.
    • Solid. As long as he can hit outside shots, he's a valuable player with his versatility and experience.
  • Dix.
    • Looked good other than his outside shot not falling. Don't expect a ton of minutes from him this year, but if he can hit jumpers he can provide some depth.
  • Ogundele.
    • Not ready to be a consistent contributor. Doubt he ever will. Can provide some depth in spurts.
  • Mulvey.
    • Only played 3 minutes. I would've guessed Mulvey be ahead of Ogundele in the rotation. I take that as a bad sign of what Mulvey has looked like in practice.
Agree with most of what you say.

I will say about Rebraca, he played his best the 2nd half of the year against better competition, so I am not worried that he can do it in the Big Ten. At this point, he is a very savvy veteran and now has a year of Big Ten experience under his belt and is probably feeling pretty confident.

With Ulis, I think he is similar to CMac in that I doubt he ever is going to score much and/or be a good outside shooter but he does a lot of other really good things you would want from a back-up Guard / Role Player. He plays good Defense, he can rebound, he is smart, he will take care of the ball. I always appreciate guys like him and CMac on Fran's teams because they have plenty of guys that can score.
 
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fivecardstud14

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Haha those were some strong Wildcat teams. Lute should have had another natty or two in that stretch.
I always liked Eugene Edgerson. That 2001 team of Gardner/Arenas/Jefferson/Wright/Woods with Walton off the bench was one of my favorite college teams.
 

perryhawk

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I'm not too worried about Patrick. Last night was a bad night but of course that's not a game he is needed to be good. He has proven last year that he is a solid - if flawed - player and there will be some games (big games when it's needed) that he will go off and carry the team offensively for at least part of a game.
I get this....my observations were that he was sluggish...didn't have quite the bounce or energy that he usually had......and yet:

He had 12 points and 6 rebounds..........that's a huge improvement in rebounding. In that stat line he was 3-5 (60%) from three!

So....I felt like it was an off night for him also....but the stats would say that he was actually pretty decent. Based on those stats, lets hope that was a bad night!
 
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WildIowaCat

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I always liked Eugene Edgerson. That 2001 team of Gardner/Arenas/Jefferson/Wright/Woods with Walton off the bench was one of my favorite college teams.
Edgerson definitely made an impression lol, sometimes on the opponents face haha. But Lute made sure it was usually only in retaliation for physical play as many teams would resort to that to try and slow them down. Gardner was one of the best guards to not make it in the NBA in my opinion. And Arenas could have been an HOF NBA but blew it.
Anyways don’t want to derail so I better stop lol.
 

owenhawk

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I get this....my observations were that he was sluggish...didn't have quite the bounce or energy that he usually had......and yet:

He had 12 points and 6 rebounds..........that's a huge improvement in rebounding. In that stat line he was 3-5 (60%) from three!

So....I felt like it was an off night for him also....but the stats would say that he was actually pretty decent. Based on those stats, lets hope that was a bad night!
Agreed. He did look a little sluggish. I think we would all like to see a little more consistency from Patrick but he is a solid player and he can be an impact player at times.
 
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I just dont really view Perkins as a PG. Can he play the position? Sure, but not really his natural role IMO. Obviously he needs tons of minutes somewhere, but I believe we will run a lot of 3 guard sets. I really like the lineup of Ulis/Perkins/Sandfort/Kris/Rebraca as it gives us an element of quickness and defensive ability that we lack with PMac. There are some interesting combinations (Bowen/Perkins/Sandfort/PMac/Kris - offensive juggernaut!).

Ulis/Bowen:

I find them to be quite complementary. Bowen is a more smooth creator and seems like a better shooter (not saying much), but needs to add some muscle as he got trainwrecked on D a few times. Bowen played alongside Ulis for some stretches, as he has the versatility to play SG.

Ulis looked even stronger and more confident, continuing to play to his strengths: Rebounding, Defense, and efficiency. He still seems a little stiff on his shooting, hoping he can focus on higher percentage looks and be adequate.

Overall, we are in good shape at PG between Ulis/Bowen/Perkins.
 

HoustonREDHawk

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I just dont really view Perkins as a PG. Can he play the position? Sure, but not really his natural role IMO. Obviously he needs tons of minutes somewhere, but I believe we will run a lot of 3 guard sets. I really like the lineup of Ulis/Perkins/Sandfort/Kris/Rebraca as it gives us an element of quickness and defensive ability that we lack with PMac. There are some interesting combinations (Bowen/Perkins/Sandfort/PMac/Kris - offensive juggernaut!).

Ulis/Bowen:

I find them to be quite complementary. Bowen is a more smooth creator and seems like a better shooter (not saying much), but needs to add some muscle as he got trainwrecked on D a few times. Bowen played alongside Ulis for some stretches, as he has the versatility to play SG.

Ulis looked even stronger and more confident, continuing to play to his strengths: Rebounding, Defense, and efficiency. He still seems a little stiff on his shooting, hoping he can focus on higher percentage looks and be adequate.

Overall, we are in good shape at PG between Ulis/Bowen/Perkins.
Agree with this. Still waiting to see how Ulis and Bowen will shoot from outside, which would really open up an already potent offense. When competition steps up, that will be more important. Agree with your lineups, but it is also nice have CMac available to plug in where needed.
 

owenhawk

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I watched Seton Hall play last night against Monmouth. They are picked 7th in the Big East.

They are athletic, play hard, hit the offensive boards, and were unselfish. They also had a ton of turnovers (20) and they got killed on the offensive boards themselves (letting Monmouth get 16 ORB's).

Monmouth shot 10% from 3pt range.

If Iowa takes care of the ball like they usually do, I think they will be in good shape. I think Iowa can score on them both inside and out. If Monmouth even shot 33% from 3pt range, it would have been a different game.

Will be a good test but winnable.
 

perryhawk

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I watched Seton Hall play last night against Monmouth. They are picked 7th in the Big East.

They are athletic, play hard, hit the offensive boards, and were unselfish. They also had a ton of turnovers (20) and they got killed on the offensive boards themselves (letting Monmouth get 16 ORB's).

Monmouth shot 10% from 3pt range.

If Iowa takes care of the ball like they usually do, I think they will be in good shape. I think Iowa can score on them both inside and out. If Monmouth even shot 33% from 3pt range, it would have been a different game.

Will be a good test but winnable.
100% agreement with this.....and the game within the game is a question I think a lot of us have. How will this work with Tony at PG? These guards are quick, athletic, play physical, and are going to press. Can Tony handle that and not turn it over? Will Iowa handle the press by passing up the court and make this a situation where our PF Murray handles it against their PF and makes them pay?.......
 
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hawkeyeinmo

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For supposedly being a good shooter, Dix's shot from range is very flat. Seeing that, it didn't surprise me his shots weren't going in.
No, they were not flat. He just looked like he may have been pressing a bit after the first 2 or 3 didn’t go down. His stroke looked fine.
 
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Agree with this. Still waiting to see how Ulis and Bowen will shoot from outside, which would really open up an already potent offense. When competition steps up, that will be more important. Agree with your lineups, but it is also nice have CMac available to plug in where needed.
Indeed. I have come to really appreciate CMac. The luxury of having basically another coach on the floor, tough as nails, versatile and seems to really know his role. Defense, Rebounding, Passing and now a 3 point threat!

I really like our top 8: (a lot of combinations)

Kris (3/4/small 5)
Saucy (1/2)
Sandfort (2/3)
PMac (3/small 4)
Rebraca (4/5)
Ulis (1)
Bowen (1/2)
PMac (1/2/3/4)
 

owenhawk

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Indeed. I have come to really appreciate CMac. The luxury of having basically another coach on the floor, tough as nails, versatile and seems to really know his role. Defense, Rebounding, Passing and now a 3 point threat!

I really like our top 8: (a lot of combinations)

Kris (3/4/small 5)
Saucy (1/2)
Sandfort (2/3)
PMac (3/small 4)
Rebraca (4/5)
Ulis (1)
Bowen (1/2)
PMac (1/2/3/4)
It definitely helps when CMac is hitting his outside shots and that he appears to be as healthy as he has in a long time.

He's always been a valuable part of the rotation ... we just have some fans who think the only way to gauge a player is by their scoring average (and they like to be fake outraged and the ridiculous belief that Fran wants to play his kids over better players).
 

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