Someone please explain…

[MitchLL]

I don't understand why certain people are offended with criticism of coaches.

We're not trying to just stay ahead of the ISUs and Minnesotas of the world.
That's a given.

But the gap is widening from #1 and it's not a secret.

Morningstar has been a great Hawkeye. Telford...? Just not sure what he brings?

But other top programs like Michigan/PSU aren't afraid to make changes.
Can't stand pat.

And no...this is just a reaction to the beatdown in Ann Arbor.

 

[MVPFAN]

I don't think anybody has ever said he is one of the best in country. What has been said is that he is the best on the staff. I still think that's true. but that isn't saying much anymore.

This is my frustration.

125- they have done very well getting elite recruits.

133- Last elite recruit was Cory Clark. Spencer got ADS to fill the void for 3 years but here we are again.

141- Last elite recruit maybe Dziewa, not sure if he even was. Plugged a hole with Jaydin and Real. Can Block make 141?

149- Metcalf the last elite recruit I can remember.

157- Kem was here a couple years.

165- Bull and PK, both brawler grinder types and both have struggled with athletic guys. Calliendo transfer gets a guy with some athletic ability.

174- Arnold, Jaybo before that probably.

184-I can't even say.

197- Warner

285- Kueter, Cass

 

[Lambertt]

I should be used to it by now, but it still amazes me how many stupid things are posted here after a frustrating loss (or frustrating win).

This is probably nothing compared to what is going to be said after the loss to Penn State. Miracles can happen though.

 

[herkcy]

Progess is being made. We have donors. We have a new facility coming. We have gotten a handful of good recruits in consecutive years. Unfortunately the gap between PSU and the rest of the field keeps widening. It may not be fair, but what Iowa is currently doing simply isn't enough. The problem I see is progression is getting hindered with the rationalization of what is being done vs. what isn't. People value loyalty over progression. I get it. With that you get the argument between the constuctive criticism and loyalty & the progress it will actually take.

 

[HawkMachine]

49

Surprising.

You sound like a boomer that thinks they know everything.

 

[Muscles1989]

I don't understand why certain people are offended with criticism of coaches.

We're not trying to just stay ahead of the ISUs and Minnesotas of the world.
That's a given.

But the gap is widening from #1 and it's not a secret.

Morningstar has been a great Hawkeye. Telford...? Just not sure what he brings?

But other top programs like Michigan/PSU aren't afraid to make changes.
Can't stand pat.

And no...this is just a reaction to the beatdown in Ann Arbor.

There’s gotta be better guys out there to develop upper weights….. heck there’s a top recruit that’s related to a pretty dam good wrestler who would help tremendously. The loyalty to ex hawk wrestlers is only going to hurt the program more and more.

 

[HawkMachine]

Progess is being made. We have donors. We have a new facility coming.

You guys needs to stop jerking off to this new facility.

It’s not going to bring the top kids in.

Kids would rather wrestle for PSU on old hard mats than come here right now.

The donations would have been better spent on NIL.

The only way we can compete with PSU recruiting right now with the same coaching staff is MONEY.

What we really need is some different coaches AND money

 

[rcamp67]

What was so stupid that I said?

What was so stupid that I said?

Top coaches wouldn’t want to come to Iowa to work with TNT and that top level recruits aren’t coming. Ludicrous. Iowa is still one of the very top destinations for a coach. I consider Angelo, BK, GA, RW, MC, etc top level recruits. If you don’t….well then I’ll go back to my previous statement.

 

[Spoons]

Have any of you guys watched Glazer??? I guess Telford is not coaching him up eh?? We don’t know about hwt yet because we have not seen enough out of Kueter. But if you don’t think he has coached up Riggins who is up atleast 2 weight classes you are nuts. Telford doing pretty damn good considering what he is working with.

 

[Life=HawkeyeWrestlin]

You guys needs to stop jerking off to this new facility.

It’s not going to bring the top kids in.

Kids would rather wrestle for PSU on old hard mats than come here right now.

The donations would have been better spent on NIL.

The only way we can compete with PSU recruiting right now with the same coaching staff is MONEY.

What we really need is some different coaches AND money

Yeah I don’t understand the love for this new facility. It’s not going to bring a championship to Iowa City.

 

[Jcchawk]

Beth? She is part of the problem

You get more full of sh*t each day

 

[el dub]

Have any of you guys watched Glazer??? I guess Telford is not coaching him up eh?? We don’t know about hwt yet because we have not seen enough out of Kueter. But if you don’t think he has coached up Riggins who is up atleast 2 weight classes you are nuts. Telford doing pretty damn good considering what he is working with.

Scraps.

 

[globalhawk]

Yeah I don’t understand the love for this new facility. It’s not going to bring a championship to Iowa City.

I think the facility will help but talent and coaching win titles.

 

[Muscles1989]

Yeah I don’t understand the love for this new facility. It’s not going to bring a championship to Iowa City.

Of all sports I see wrestlers as the least likely to care where they train. They wanna train with the best, around the best. If they can’t relate to their coaches philosophy or demeanor it’ll turn them away real quick.

 

[Fan In Black]

This is my frustration.

125- they have done very well getting elite recruits.

133- Last elite recruit was Cory Clark. Spencer got ADS to fill the void for 3 years but here we are again.

141- Last elite recruit maybe Dziewa, not sure if he even was. Plugged a hole with Jaydin and Real. Can Block make 141?

149- Metcalf the last elite recruit I can remember.

157- Kem was here a couple years.

165- Bull and PK, both brawler grinder types and both have struggled with athletic guys. Calliendo transfer gets a guy with some athletic ability.

174- Arnold, Jaybo before that probably.

184-I can't even say.

197- Warner

285- Kueter, Cass

far too little. I can't even bring myself to post the top 10 p4p that PSU has gotten compared to Iowa. It just makes me mad.

They are poor recruiters. I don't know how anybody can debate this. Year after year after year on this board there is news about the top HS wrestlers. They never get the guys people are talking about. They might get one of them every 4 years. Instead they get the Top 10 per weight guys.

The gap is not closing. PSU gets a bundle of them. Some pan out some don't. Iowa gets 1 and has to hope they pan out.

PSU is hoarding all of the top 10 wrestlers and people wonder why there is a gap. It's simple to me. They get the most talent.

Forget catching PSU. Iowa is supposed to be a blue blood program. If anybody thinks they are recruiting like a blue blood I really don't know what to say anymore.

 

[Bogiyev]

Scraps.

What do you mean by "Scraps?" I sure hope it's not describing student-athletes busting their asses for the University of Iowa Hawkeyes. If that is indeed what you mean, even on this board, you need to take 10 minutes, look in the mirror and evaluate. If that's not what you meant, never mind.

 

[Trapper85]

Surprising.

You sound like a boomer that thinks they know everything.

Yea, everyone knows it's the millenials that know everything. 🙄

 

[Muscles1989]

The recruits of today don’t see Iowa the same way their dads do. I don’t see TnTs reputation bringing guys in as well as the past. Really think the recruits want to wrestle with and around national champs, not a lot of those in the Iowa room, hence the new blood needing to be brought in.

 

[Hawkgma]

Some on here have no clue wtf they're talking about. Many here suggest new head coaches who have never been D1 coaches . Everyone slings mud once the team looks bad. When they win its we look great. Morningstar is one of the best recruiters in the country. It's ok guys the sun came up and life goes on. Iowa isn't the best anymore and other programs have proven they can win. High school kids aren't flocking to Iowa anymore they're going to Penn st. You build it they will come that's how wrestling works.

Just like in football.. Iowa beats the poverty teams and people "in the know" Points and says Told ya.... once we wrestle a team with a pulse we get spanked..... ISU was lucky that the refs missed two take downs or we lose that one also... Keep your head in the sand about our coaches though. The cult mentality is not what young wrestlers want anymore. Listen to Cael talk and Brands talk and you will see why wrestlers chose PSU over Iowa at a very high rate.

 

[west2east]

Just like in football.. Iowa beats the poverty teams and people "in the know" Points and says Told ya.... once we wrestle a team with a pulse we get spanked..... ISU was lucky that the refs missed two take downs or we lose that one also... Keep your head in the sand about our coaches though. The cult mentality is not what young wrestlers want anymore. Listen to Cael talk and Brands talk and you will see why wrestlers chose PSU over Iowa at a very high rate.

Tell me Iowa's dual losses the last 5 years . The Big 10 is the toughest conference in the country. Poverty teams 🤣🤣. Every loss the sky is falling

 

[bourbon n blues]

You guys needs to stop jerking off to this new facility.

It’s not going to bring the top kids in.

Kids would rather wrestle for PSU on old hard mats than come here right now.

The donations would have been better spent on NIL.

The only way we can compete with PSU recruiting right now with the same coaching staff is MONEY.

What we really need is some different coaches AND money

Honestly I do not know if there was a satisfactory answer for most. Think back to the Gable days if you were around. I remember when he won the Gold, I was 9 btw. He went to Iowa and built the program into arguably the best ever. How was anyone going to beat Iowa back then? well the answer was wait until he retires, then wait until another potential all time great coach comes along like Sanderson.

Gable's era started 49 years ago and for years after he retired Iowa was at the top or close until Sanderson started at PSU. Now they're still close to the top but with a widened gap, similar to other programs in the Gable era. The difference is Sanderson is in the most wrestling fertile area in the country. PSU football is in the same boat, all my football buddies want to fire Franklin and somehow they think some better coach will make PSU number 1. Nest year PSU might sniff the playoffs but i doubt they win a football title anytime soon. Things have changed.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Let me guess, you are at least 60 years old. Maybe 70?

Right?

What exactly was wrong with what he said?

 

[HawkMachine]

Yea, everyone knows it's the millenials that know everything. 🙄

Well I never said THAT! lol

I'm 47 so not old or young.

 

[HawkMachine]

What exactly was wrong with what he said?

"Some on here have no clue wtf they're talking about."

Yet he does?

"Many here suggest new head coaches who have never been D1 coaches"

Last time I checked, EVERY coach out there had to start sometime right?

"Morningstar is one of the best recruiters in the country."

The recruiting results say otherwise.

"You build it they will come that's how wrestling works."

Build what? The facility? Build Championships? What are we building here? It ALL starts with recruiting. Then developing.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

"Some on here have no clue wtf they're talking about."

Yet he does?

"Many here suggest new head coaches who have never been D1 coaches"

Last time I checked, EVERY coach out there had to start sometime right?

"Morningstar is one of the best recruiters in the country."

The recruiting results say otherwise.

"You build it they will come that's how wrestling works."

Build what? The facility? Build Championships? What are we building here? It ALL starts with recruiting. Then developing.

He's 100% right that some people on here have no clue what they are talking about. Many act like running a D-1 program is like daily fantasy football. You don't like your roster, just click and start over.

You think a true blue blood in college wrestling needs to start with someone who has never coached before? Would Alabama do that? Would Duke do that? Go out and buy the best coach there is.

Are you an expert in the know about recruiting? "One" of the best does not mean "the" best.

And of course you have to build something and that will attract others. Pretty sure the comment was intended to be a long term - you build and what you build will attract others. Pretty common sense comment.

 

[MSU158]

far too little. I can't even bring myself to post the top 10 p4p that PSU has gotten compared to Iowa. It just makes me mad.

They are poor recruiters. I don't know how anybody can debate this. Year after year after year on this board there is news about the top HS wrestlers. They never get the guys people are talking about. They might get one of them every 4 years. Instead they get the Top 10 per weight guys.

The gap is not closing. PSU gets a bundle of them. Some pan out some don't. Iowa gets 1 and has to hope they pan out.

PSU is hoarding all of the top 10 wrestlers and people wonder why there is a gap. It's simple to me. They get the most talent.

Forget catching PSU. Iowa is supposed to be a blue blood program. If anybody thinks they are recruiting like a blue blood I really don't know what to say anymore.

This is such utter BS! Who recruits better than Iowa other than PSU? tOSU has had a couple of runs recruiting, but it was really 1 small window with a ton of busts. Even Michigan went way more portal than recruiting. Cornell is probably the only other competitive and they still have some big holes in their lineup most years.

The simple truth is all the nay sayers see what PSU is doing and are making that the benchmark. The problem with that is NO TEAM has ever recruiting anything like what PSU is doing now. Even in Gable’s hay day he was still landing more guys that “fit” his style than going all out on top 10 lb4lbers.

Nowadays, you simply can’t do that. The top 10ish guys are all coached up and nearly all are college ready from the get go. You can be mad that Iowa isn’t able to keep up. But, let’s not act like Iowa is bad at recruiting when the only team that ins inarguably better is the best to ever do it…

 

[MSU158]

He's 100% right that some people on here have no clue what they are talking about. Many act like running a D-1 program is like daily fantasy football. You don't like your roster, just click and start over.

You think a true blue blood in college wrestling needs to start with someone who has never coached before? Would Alabama do that? Would Duke do that? Go out and buy the best coach there is.

Are you an expert in the know about recruiting? "One" of the best does not mean "the" best.

And of course you have to build something and that will attract others. Pretty sure the comment was intended to be a long term - you build and what you build will attract others. Pretty common sense comment.

This couldn’t be more true. It is beyond easy to call for a coaching change, but not have to actually do the work and be responsible for finding the right coach and the results afterwards.

What happens if that coach falls on his face? What if Iowa falls out of the top 5? If I were going to fire the coaching staff that has won 4 titles and is inarguably the 2nd best program since he started, I would want to be 100% CONVINCED the new guy is better. Otherwise you are just making a change for the sake of making a change and that is pure stupidity…

 

[js8793]

Spencer needs to be on staff if he wants to. Spencer needs to be on staff if he’s not sure he wants to coach. Spencer needs to be on staff, even if he doesn’t want to be.

Spencer isn't a magic bullet. There's a lot more to coaching than being a great wrestler.

 

[el dub]

This is such utter BS! Who recruits better than Iowa other than PSU? tOSU has had a couple of runs recruiting, but it was really 1 small window with a ton of busts. Even Michigan went way more portal than recruiting. Cornell is probably the only other competitive and they still have some big holes in their lineup most years.

The simple truth is all the nay sayers see what PSU is doing and are making that the benchmark. The problem with that is NO TEAM has ever recruiting anything like what PSU is doing now. Even in Gable’s hay day he was still landing more guys that “fit” his style than going all out on top 10 lb4lbers.

Nowadays, you simply can’t do that. The top 10ish guys are all coached up and nearly all are college ready from the get go. You can be mad that Iowa isn’t able to keep up. But, let’s not act like Iowa is bad at recruiting when the only team that ins inarguably better is the best to ever do it…

Iowa has not recruited well.taking their history and community support into consideration. We haven’t kept up with the times. National champs are few and far between. We rest on our laurels or success of a single athlete in the program at a time. And then are satisfied with the individual athlete’s success.

 

[MSU158]

Iowa has not recruited well.taking their history and community support into consideration. We haven’t kept up with the times. National champs are few and far between. We rest on our laurels or success of a single athlete in the program at a time. And then are satisfied with the individual athlete’s success.

So being arguably the 2nd best recruiter and top 5 for absolute sure doesn’t count because team history says so? Look, I am absolutely in agreement they need to do more. But, comparing them to PSU to be super negative, while ignoring how they compare to EVERYONE else is a very narrow minded and agenda driven argument.

 

[js8793]

Some on here have no clue wtf they're talking about. Many here suggest new head coaches who have never been D1 coaches . Everyone slings mud once the team looks bad. When they win its we look great. Morningstar is one of the best recruiters in the country. It's ok guys the sun came up and life goes on. Iowa isn't the best anymore and other programs have proven they can win. High school kids aren't flocking to Iowa anymore they're going to Penn st. You build it they will come that's how wrestling works.

Which is why they need a staff shakeup, even if it's not at the top. Morningstar might be a great recruiter. That's great! He hasn't shown he's going to consistently get the best out of those recruits.

They need to bring in a major assistant from outside the Iowa tree, preferably one who wrestled a more dynamic style.

We have a pretty large sample size of this staff not maximizing their talent in March. Time for a new approach. They did it before with Zadick and they were right to do so.

 

[Hawkgma]

Which is why they need a staff shakeup, even if it's not at the top. Morningstar might be a great recruiter. That's great! He hasn't shown he's going to consistently get the best out of those recruits.

They need to bring in a major assistant from outside the Iowa tree, preferably one who wrestled a more dynamic style.

We have a pretty large sample size of this staff not maximizing their talent in March. Time for a new approach. They did it before with Zadick and they were right to do so.

M* is great at getting Iowa kids. Where is the top talent from NJ, Penn, NY going??? We need more than 2-3 top 20 kids a year to keep up.

 

[js8793]

Iowa has not recruited well.taking their history and community support into consideration. We haven’t kept up with the times. National champs are few and far between. We rest on our laurels or success of a single athlete in the program at a time. And then are satisfied with the individual athlete’s success.

I think they have recruited well in the context of the entire landscape, just not compared to PSU (and maybe tOSU). They haven't maximized the success of those big recruits though and the consequence of that is the gap between them and PSU is going to keep growing.

Elite recruits like Gilman, Evans, Marinelli, and Warner didn't win titles. Kennedy doesn't look like he'll be a contender anytime soon. Those type of top 5-10 recruits at PSU win titles at a very high rate.

The only wrestler who's won a title here since 2017 is the guy who was good enough to win the second he stepped foot on campus. That doesn't show elite recruits they can maximize their talent at Iowa.

 

[js8793]

M* is great at getting Iowa kids. Where is the top talent from NJ, Penn, NY going??? We need more than 2-3 top 20 kids a year to keep up.

And those Iowa kids are from one club and so far none of them have panned out have they? Drake is the best and he's not a sure-fire AA in his 3rd year on campus.

 

[Hawkgma]

And those Iowa kids are from one club and so far none of them have panned out have they? Drake is the best and he's not a sure-fire AA in his 3rd year on campus.

Ding Ding Ding!!

 

[js8793]

IMO the biggest tell that they need a shake up is that I can pretty reliably predict where a typical Iowa wrestler is going to struggle.

Getting to legs consistently
Finishing those attacks off schedule against scrambling
Scrambling in general

Most of the team, year over year, struggles with those things. That tells me there is a weakness in the skill development department with this staff.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Which goes back to the original post, please explain why you consider Mstar one of the best recruiters in the country?
Who is he pulling in?

Being one of the best recruiters on our staff is not the same as being one of the best recruiters in the country. That's what unfortunately many fail to understand. I think Tom could be a phenomenal recruiter if he wanted to be. He's a genuine and extremely likeable guy, and one I think parents would gladly trust their sons personal and wrestling development with. It just doesn't seem like he's all in on that part of the role like we wish he was.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Unfortunately the gap between PSU and the rest of the field keeps widening.

Iowa just got walloped by Michigan, not PSU. That's regression, not progress.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Just like in football.. Iowa beats the poverty teams and people "in the know" Points and says Told ya.... once we wrestle a team with a pulse we get spanked..... ISU was lucky that the refs missed two take downs or we lose that one also... Keep your head in the sand about our coaches though. The cult mentality is not what young wrestlers want anymore. Listen to Cael talk and Brands talk and you will see why wrestlers chose PSU over Iowa at a very high rate.

I'm with you until the last statement. Cael is not some enthusiastic magnetic personality. He's just not. He's the figure head that brings a high level of validity to the program the way Tom did 15 years ago... but Cunningham and Cody are the real brains and workhorses behind the scenes. I've heard this from multiple solid sources for awhile now.

 

[CatCoach]

This is such utter BS! Who recruits better than Iowa other than PSU? tOSU has had a couple of runs recruiting, but it was really 1 small window with a ton of busts. Even Michigan went way more portal than recruiting. Cornell is probably the only other competitive and they still have some big holes in their lineup most years.

The simple truth is all the nay sayers see what PSU is doing and are making that the benchmark. The problem with that is NO TEAM has ever recruiting anything like what PSU is doing now. Even in Gable’s hay day he was still landing more guys that “fit” his style than going all out on top 10 lb4lbers.

Nowadays, you simply can’t do that. The top 10ish guys are all coached up and nearly all are college ready from the get go. You can be mad that Iowa isn’t able to keep up. But, let’s not act like Iowa is bad at recruiting when the only team that ins inarguably better is the best to ever do it…

I agree, unfortunately, we are not going to out recruit PSU for top 10 kids, but what frustrates me, is when we do get a top 10 they don't live up to the hype or standing. Most get injured or regress/plateau.
It also seems as if Iowa grinds too much. No dynamic shots or level changes. Mostly snapping to Hi-C's. They also have a hard time scoring points on top.

I want Iowa to win a national championship and I still think they can, even with Cael at PSU, but we need all our Top 10 guys to be healthy and improving each year and then we need a little luck in developing some diamonds in the rough and hopefully PSU can have a down year.

Just seems like that is a lot to hope for when we seem to be so far behind.

Am I saying I would be happy with second place if we were developing better and not getting banged up so much?? Yes, because I do think if that happens some year we will catch PSU on a down year or Cael may retire soon.