Someone please explain…

[MSU158]

Iowa just got walloped by Michigan, not PSU. That's regression, not progress.

Context is important. They lost two matches by a few seconds in double ot and had their #1 guy get majored. Otherwise, even with Woods losing, but not getting majored, the score would have been 17-17. The way they looked, rumors of illnesses may have some merit.

Still, let’s not act like Michigan isn’t a very tough dual matchup for Iowa. Hell, they portaled in top 5 guys at 133, 149, 174 and 285. With the exception of 184, they are certainly Iowa’s weakest weights.

Let’s see how they rebound. PSU is going to win by a large margin regardless, but I want to see how the guys that lost look in their next matches before firmly passing judgement.

 

[Hawkgma]

I'm with you until the last statement. Cael is not some enthusiastic magnetic personality. He's just not. He's the figure head that brings a high level of validity to the program the way Tom did 15 years ago... but Cunningham and Cody are the real brains and workhorses behind the scenes. I've heard this from multiple solid sources for awhile now.

thats good information. I am just talking about the way Cael talks about having fun and this is just a sport. TnT talks like it is life or death and Kids don't follow along with that as much anymore.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Have any of you guys watched Glazer??? I guess Telford is not coaching him up eh?? We don’t know about hwt yet because we have not seen enough out of Kueter. But if you don’t think he has coached up Riggins who is up atleast 2 weight classes you are nuts. Telford doing pretty damn good considering what he is working with.

I think the thought is more along the lines of what top upper weight recruits are going to want to come to Iowa to wrestle and be coached by Telford. And I'm not trying to knock Telford. He seems like a great guy and solid coach. I just don't think he's one of the top wrestlers or coaches in the country and that's what Iowa needs to be aiming for.

 

[el dub]

So being arguably the 2nd best recruiter and top 5 for absolute sure doesn’t count because team history says so? Look, I am absolutely in agreement they need to do more. But, comparing them to PSU to be super negative, while ignoring how they compare to EVERYONE else is a very narrow minded and agenda driven argument.

We are squandering good will and fan support while alienating many top recruits, imo. Most programs don’t have the potential of Iowa or the reputation. And we aren’t taking advantage of that dynamic to cherry pick/lure top talent, imo.

 

[Hawkgma]

We are squandering good will and fan support while alienating many top recruits, imo. Most programs don’t have the potential of Iowa or the reputation. And we aren’t taking advantage of that dynamic to cherry pick/lure top talent, imo.

Nailed it!

 

[Libertylover]

Yeah I don’t understand the love for this new facility. It’s not going to bring a championship to Iowa City.

But if we didn’t keep up with the jones with facilities, many would bitch about that also.

 

[MSU158]

We are squandering good will and fan support while alienating many top recruits, imo. Most programs don’t have the potential of Iowa or the reputation. And we aren’t taking advantage of that dynamic to cherry pick/lure top talent, imo.

The true problem is many of you think Iowa has more cache nationally than it really does. Make no mistake, a ton of that went away during Zalesky’s time. Hell, even Brands best recruiting ever came when he wasn’t even at Iowa yet. He was at Virginia Tech.

Look, Iowa is still a big name, but they aren’t nearly the name to most outside of Iowa. That isn’t Brands fault. Again, that all changed under Zalesky and Brands was only able to do so much after. Meanwhile, Sanderson was red hot and once he hit PSU, the rest is history.

Simply put, Iowa hasn’t been “cherry picking” simply because they have NOT been in a position to cherry pick recruits in a very long time. Now, it is even that much harder because PSU basically checks every box right now.

No one has to like it, but going after guys like Ferrari is going to be one of the few ways to truly get talent on par with PSU. They aren’t going to outrecruit PSU on most of the big names. They are going to HAVE to take risks with guys with some issues and/or giant chips on their shoulders.

Otherwise, you are going to see Iowa keep finishing runner up when the names they think they had a chance with choose PSU in the end anyway.

 

[tiltman]

So we have some guys that claim we’re getting good recruits, only getting out recruited by PSU and these same people are saying our coaches are also only 2nd to PSU, so why are other schools producing national champs and we are very few? How can you say we recruit better than OSU and Cornell and we shouldn’t look for a new coach cause the PSU staff is the only one better out there yet these other schools are producing more champs? They’re either out recruiting us, out coaching us, or both.

As far as finding a replacement for Brands saying we wouldn’t want a guy with no coaching experience I agree but I sure would hope we could at least get the replacement in an assistant coaching role so he can get that experience. I sure as hell hope our current assistance aren’t the future head coaches waiting in the wings. Sure would be nice to look for that person and get them in one of those roles.

 

[HawkeyePA]

Context is important. They lost two matches by a few seconds in double ot and had their #1 guy get majored. Otherwise, even with Woods losing, but not getting majored, the score would have been 17-17. The way they looked, rumors of illnesses may have some merit.

Still, let’s not act like Michigan isn’t a very tough dual matchup for Iowa. Hell, they portaled in top 5 guys at 133, 149, 174 and 285. With the exception of 184, they are certainly Iowa’s weakest weights.

Let’s see how they rebound. PSU is going to win by a large margin regardless, but I want to see how the guys that lost look in their next matches before firmly passing judgement.

I don't always find myself in agreement with you and i don't think I have ever posted in in opposition to you but I absolutely AGREE 100% with this post !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be careful making too much sense on this board as it will only bring chaos and rumors of anarchy to the people who dwell here. The rumors of the flu are TRUE and this stuff happens now and then... we see Pitt beat Ohio State and then they fall by the wayside...we see Arizona State beat Pitt but they lost to Little Rock ???? who the Hell is Little Rock ? I agree Michigan is a tough match up for Iowa- and we looked flat and tired...but its not time to dump the entire tray and order a new meal... lets see if they learn from this loss and make a better effort and trust me...i would be asking Gabe and DeLuca and some of the other new guys...What sold you on Iowa?? and then PUMP that area up and support it with $$$ and staff and make our best selling point our BEST AND STRONGEST POSITION for the future .

 

[blcoach80]

This couldn’t be more true. It is beyond easy to call for a coaching change, but not have to actually do the work and be responsible for finding the right coach and the results afterwards.

What happens if that coach falls on his face? What if Iowa falls out of the top 5? If I were going to fire the coaching staff that has won 4 titles and is inarguably the 2nd best program since he started, I would want to be 100% CONVINCED the new guy is better. Otherwise you are just making a change for the sake of making a change and that is pure stupidity…

My thoughts as well. I think firing Tom would be a big mistake and would make for a rough at best next couple years. My "dream scenario" would be to keep the current staff and add to it and mix up their duties. Move Terry to the HWC. Make M* the recruiting director. I know this doesn't exist currently, but that doesn't mean it isn't needed. I think everyone agrees this needs to improve, so why not make our great recruiter in charge of only that. Bring in Nolf to coach the middle weights and I would love to bring in Jayden Cox for the upper weights. You would keep most everyone on staff with new blood and great technical wrestlers. I know this will cost some bucks, but that supposedly isn't the issue (I don't know if I believe that from an administrative level anyway). Bump season ticket prices by $20 and that will generate almost $300,000 alone and with the changes I think you drum up a ton of new interest in the Hawks and with recruits. Like I said, this is my dream scenario, but I think it is a step forward instead of burning everything down and starting over.

 

[Hawkgma]

My thoughts as well. I think firing Tom would be a big mistake and would make for a rough at best next couple years. My "dream scenario" would be to keep the current staff and add to it and mix up their duties. Move Terry to the HWC. Make M* the recruiting director. I know this doesn't exist currently, but that doesn't mean it isn't needed. I think everyone agrees this needs to improve, so why not make our great recruiter in charge of only that. Bring in Nolf to coach the middle weights and I would love to bring in Jayden Cox for the upper weights. You would keep most everyone on staff with new blood and great technical wrestlers. I know this will cost some bucks, but that supposedly isn't the issue (I don't know if I believe that from an administrative level anyway). Bump season ticket prices by $20 and that will generate almost $300,000 alone and with the changes I think you drum up a ton of new interest in the Hawks and with recruits. Like I said, this is my dream scenario, but I think it is a step forward instead of burning everything down and starting over.

This makes a lot of sense... Maybe Telford could be the guy that brings all the new coaches Lunch?? (i'm sure he is a super nice guy, but not a coach at IOWA)

 

[Inthecircle]

So we have some guys that claim we’re getting good recruits, only getting out recruited by PSU and these same people are saying our coaches are also only 2nd to PSU, so why are other schools producing national champs and we are very few? How can you say we recruit better than OSU and Cornell and we shouldn’t look for a new coach cause the PSU staff is the only one better out there yet these other schools are producing more champs? They’re either out recruiting us, out coaching us, or both.

As far as finding a replacement for Brands saying we wouldn’t want a guy with no coaching experience I agree but I sure would hope we could at least get the replacement in an assistant coaching role so he can get that experience. I sure as hell hope our current assistance aren’t the future head coaches waiting in the wings. Sure would be nice to look for that person and get them in one of those roles.

Here are the other schools which have more than one NCAA Champion, other than PSU. Over the last 5 years.

Cornell has two-Yanni & Vito
Michigan has two Suriano & Parris
Rutgers has two Suriano & Ashnault
Remove Suriano & Yanni and its even.
The last NCAA Champion from Ohio State was Snyder in 2018

Schools and wrestlers with multiple NCAA
Champions, other than PSU since 2018
Cornell Yanni (4)
Lee Iowa (3)
O’Toole Mizz (2)
O’ Connor NC (2)
Steveson MN (2)
Valencia ASU (2)

There are not other schools racking up more Champions than Iowa. It’s PSU vs. the field.

Team trophies (placing 1-4) over the last 5 years, other than PSU.
Iowa (5)
Ohio State (3) one since 2019 4th last year
Michigan (2)
Okie State (2)
Arizona St. (2)
Cornell (1) 3rd last year

Iowa is held to a higher standard, I get that. All the other schools out there who are seemingly out recruiting us, have better coaching and producing more NCAA Champions is a fallacy based on past results.

This is about catching PSU and nothing else. I realize this is going to met with opposition and scorn. I am on board with taking a hard look at our staff and techniques because I am not seeing improvement in finishing takedowns and scrambling abilities.
This is on Tom and I know we like our guys.
Our purpose is to win individual titles and team Championships. At this stage it’s all about process only the top team has better performance and process based on past results.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Iowa just got walloped by Michigan, not PSU. That's regression, not progress.

Anything can happen on a given night. In my opinion, this was a perfect storm for Michigan. If they were to wrestle again, the score could easily be reversed. Especially if Lewan was actually forced to take anything other than a fake ass counter shot to throw off a home cooking referee.

 

[cmhawks99]

TNT are the exact same person, why we continue to pay two people to do one job is crazy! Terry should be with HWC or head coach elsewhere. Morningside and Telford could be replaced by a whole lot of coaches with different styles that would move us into the next decade or two! I’ve been saying this for awhile not just after one bad loss but after a lot of wins that didn’t look good. I don’t really care if we get rid of Tom as well and just blow the whole thing up, I mean if it doesn’t work try someone new. How long do we keep struggling to score waiting for Spencer to ride in and save the day? 5-6 years?

Wow….I don’t come here often but I wondered if Tom’s head was in the chopping block yet, like the other coaches…

I see he is….I honestly wish we’d hire guys on here. It’s clearly an easy job. Then would could burn their house down after they sucked

 

[Fan In Black]

I agree, unfortunately, we are not going to out recruit PSU for top 10 kids, but what frustrates me, is when we do get a top 10 they don't live up to the hype or standing. Most get injured or regress/plateau.
It also seems as if Iowa grinds too much. No dynamic shots or level changes. Mostly snapping to Hi-C's. They also have a hard time scoring points on top.

I want Iowa to win a national championship and I still think they can, even with Cael at PSU, but we need all our Top 10 guys to be healthy and improving each year and then we need a little luck in developing some diamonds in the rough and hopefully PSU can have a down year.

Just seems like that is a lot to hope for when we seem to be so far behind.

Am I saying I would be happy with second place if we were developing better and not getting banged up so much?? Yes, because I do think if that happens some year we will catch PSU on a down year or Cael may retire soon.

PSU also has top 10 guys guys that don't live up to the hype. Plenty of them. They just get more of them.

 

[TNTwrestle]

So we have some guys that claim we’re getting good recruits, only getting out recruited by PSU and these same people are saying our coaches are also only 2nd to PSU, so why are other schools producing national champs and we are very few? How can you say we recruit better than OSU and Cornell and we shouldn’t look for a new coach cause the PSU staff is the only one better out there yet these other schools are producing more champs? They’re either out recruiting us, out coaching us, or both.

I don't know who you're talking about that is crushing us with the number of NC they have. Other than PSU, no one is really lighting that up.

As far as finding a replacement for Brands saying we wouldn’t want a guy with no coaching experience I agree but I sure would hope we could at least get the replacement in an assistant coaching role so he can get that experience. I sure as hell hope our current assistance aren’t the future head coaches waiting in the wings. Sure would be nice to look for that person and get them in one of those roles.

It was stated that Casey and Cody are the ones doing all the work at PSU, so let's throw a fortune at Casey, and if he says he doesn't want to be a head coach, pay him the big bucks to be Tom's assistant. I have always felt he was the key to their success. Ryan was who I wanted when Tom got hired, but after seeing him run tOSU with all their money and support has convinced me he wouldn't have been the answer.

My thoughts as well. I think firing Tom would be a big mistake and would make for a rough at best next couple years. My "dream scenario" would be to keep the current staff and add to it and mix up their duties. Move Terry to the HWC. Make M* the recruiting director. I know this doesn't exist currently, but that doesn't mean it isn't needed. I think everyone agrees this needs to improve, so why not make our great recruiter in charge of only that. Bring in Nolf to coach the middle weights and I would love to bring in Jayden Cox for the upper weights. You would keep most everyone on staff with new blood and great technical wrestlers. I know this will cost some bucks, but that supposedly isn't the issue (I don't know if I believe that from an administrative level anyway). Bump season ticket prices by $20 and that will generate almost $300,000 alone and with the changes I think you drum up a ton of new interest in the Hawks and with recruits. Like I said, this is my dream scenario, but I think it is a step forward instead of burning everything down and starting over.

Nolf and Cox would be my choices as well (since Casey will never come) and Terry would be the best HWC coach we could find. If Spencer wants to coach, we need to keep him here at all costs.

I'm not crazy about the higher Season-ticket prices, we just had a $30 increase this year and are already double (or more) almost any other school's. When you're buying 11 of them and are a poor man on a fixed budget, another $20 is a real stretch of the budget.

Here are the other schools which have more than one NCAA Champion, other than PSU. Over the last 5 years.

Cornell has two-Yanni & Vito
Michigan has two Suriano & Parris
Rutgers has two Suriano & Ashnault
Remove Suriano & Yanni and its even.
The last NCAA Champion from Ohio State was Snyder in 2018

Schools and wrestlers with multiple NCAA
Champions, other than PSU since 2018
Cornell Yanni (4)
Lee Iowa (3)
O’Toole Mizz (2)
O’ Connor NC (2)
Steveson MN (2)
Valencia ASU (2)

There are not other schools racking up more Champions than Iowa. It’s PSU vs. the field.

Team trophies (placing 1-4) over the last 5 years, other than PSU.
Iowa (5)
Ohio State (3) one since 2019 4th last year
Michigan (2)
Okie State (2)
Arizona St. (2)
Cornell (1) 3rd last year

Iowa is held to a higher standard, I get that. All the other schools out there who are seemingly out recruiting us, have better coaching and producing more NCAA Champions is a fallacy based on past results.

This is about catching PSU and nothing else. I realize this is going to met with opposition and scorn. I am on board with taking a hard look at our staff and techniques because I am not seeing improvement in finishing takedowns and scrambling abilities.
This is on Tom and I know we like our guys.
Our purpose is to win individual titles and team Championships. At this stage it’s all about process only the top team has better performance and process based on past results.

Great post. And facts to back my first statement on this post. I do agree some changes need to be made though. One problem we seem to have is Tom's unwillingness to listen to other people's input and make adjustments to his way of looking at things. Call it stubbornness, or whatever you like, but our training/philosophies need some fresh ideas.

 

[Sett1997]

That’s such a second place loving, hind-tit sucking mentality. We’re not dynamic enough to even compete for a title except once in nearly fifteen years. Excuses are for wusses. Stop making them.

Same mentality as the FB and BB teams. Just chug along.
Fran is great, he just needs more time. Kirk is great, lil ole Iowa , we should just be happy with where we are.
Total loser mentality.

 

[Sett1997]

I'll have to believe that Spencer Lee and Jason Nolf would kick Telford and Morningstars ass in recruiting.
It wouldn't be close.
Tom is stuck in dinosaur world, like Kirk.
Young kids don't even know who Telford and Morningstar are.
I'd wager 99% of high school recruits have never heard of them until they contact them.
I'd wager 100% of high school recruits know who Jason Nolf and Spencer Lee are.
Get with it Tom, it's time for a change.

 

[el dub]

I'll have to believe that Spencer Lee and Jason Nolf would kick Telford and Morningstars ass in recruiting.
It wouldn't be close.
Tom is stuck in dinosaur world, like Kirk.
Young kids don't even know who Telford and Morningstar are.
I'd wager 99% of high school recruits have never heard of them until they contact them.
I'd wager 100% of high school recruits know who Jason Nolf and Spencer Lee are.
Get with it Tom, it's time for a change.

Hebe stubborn.

 

[MAGAman]

We are squandering good will and fan support while alienating many top recruits, imo. Most programs don’t have the potential of Iowa or the reputation. And we aren’t taking advantage of that dynamic to cherry pick/lure top talent, imo.

Spot on el dub!

 

[MAGAman]

The true problem is many of you think Iowa has more cache nationally than it really does. Make no mistake, a ton of that went away during Zalesky’s time. Hell, even Brands best recruiting ever came when he wasn’t even at Iowa yet. He was at Virginia Tech.

Look, Iowa is still a big name, but they aren’t nearly the name to most outside of Iowa. That isn’t Brands fault. Again, that all changed under Zalesky and Brands was only able to do so much after. Meanwhile, Sanderson was red hot and once he hit PSU, the rest is history.

Simply put, Iowa hasn’t been “cherry picking” simply because they have NOT been in a position to cherry pick recruits in a very long time. Now, it is even that much harder because PSU basically checks every box right now.

No one has to like it, but going after guys like Ferrari is going to be one of the few ways to truly get talent on par with PSU. They aren’t going to outrecruit PSU on most of the big names. They are going to HAVE to take risks with guys with some issues and/or giant chips on their shoulders.

Otherwise, you are going to see Iowa keep finishing runner up when the names they think they had a chance with choose PSU in the end anyway.

I agree with most of your post other than “not TB fault” . I think most falls on him. He was one of the grestest D1 competitors of all time in my opinion, however it doesnt work leading this program. His persona is a major turn off to most fans, parents, refs, table workers and athletes. Other than in iowa i woupd say this is factual nation wide. Not alot of brands fans out there just based on his demeanor on the sidelines. His interviews are more difficult to watch than a taylor swift show!

We need a professional mature acting leader with similar credentials. They are out there. Id take a flyer on one of the fore mentioned thst havent been a head coach.

Ill agree, other than CS no other head coach now would be better. Not impressed with the field. However the dake, DT, metcalf, mc dounough….etc, would do way better. JMO!

 

[Inthecircle]

I agree, unfortunately, we are not going to out recruit PSU for top 10 kids, but what frustrates me, is when we do get a top 10 they don't live up to the hype or standing. Most get injured or regress/plateau.
It also seems as if Iowa grinds too much. No dynamic shots or level changes. Mostly snapping to Hi-C's. They also have a hard time scoring points on top.

I want Iowa to win a national championship and I still think they can, even with Cael at PSU, but we need all our Top 10 guys to be healthy and improving each year and then we need a little luck in developing some diamonds in the rough and hopefully PSU can have a down year.

Just seems like that is a lot to hope for when we seem to be so far behind.

Am I saying I would be happy with second place if we were developing better and not getting banged up so much?? Yes, because I do think if that happens some year we will catch PSU on a down year or Cael may retire soon.

Knock on Wood’s (God knows we’ve done it enough since Friday); we seem to be pretty healthy so far this year.

 

[jmadden1998]

Here are the other schools which have more than one NCAA Champion, other than PSU. Over the last 5 years.

Cornell has two-Yanni & Vito
Michigan has two Suriano & Parris
Rutgers has two Suriano & Ashnault
Remove Suriano & Yanni and its even.
The last NCAA Champion from Ohio State was Snyder in 2018

Schools and wrestlers with multiple NCAA
Champions, other than PSU since 2018
Cornell Yanni (4)
Lee Iowa (3)
O’Toole Mizz (2)
O’ Connor NC (2)
Steveson MN (2)
Valencia ASU (2)

There are not other schools racking up more Champions than Iowa. It’s PSU vs. the field.

Team trophies (placing 1-4) over the last 5 years, other than PSU.
Iowa (5)
Ohio State (3) one since 2019 4th last year
Michigan (2)
Okie State (2)
Arizona St. (2)
Cornell (1) 3rd last year

Iowa is held to a higher standard, I get that. All the other schools out there who are seemingly out recruiting us, have better coaching and producing more NCAA Champions is a fallacy based on past results.

This is about catching PSU and nothing else. I realize this is going to met with opposition and scorn. I am on board with taking a hard look at our staff and techniques because I am not seeing improvement in finishing takedowns and scrambling abilities.
This is on Tom and I know we like our guys.
Our purpose is to win individual titles and team Championships. At this stage it’s all about process only the top team has better performance and process based on past results.

100% agree. And to expand here are total All Americans by school in the last 5 years (excluding 2020)

Penn St 35
Iowa 29
Ohio St 25
Arizona St 20
Michigan 20
Okie St 19
Missouri 18
Nebraska 18
Virginia Tech 17
Cornell 15 (did not compete 2021)
NC State 15
Minnesota 13
North Carolina 12
Northwestern 11
Wisconsin 10
Iowa St 9
Oregon St 9
Rutgers 9
Lehigh 8
Princeton 8 (did not compete 2021)
South Dakota State 6
Northern Iowa 6
Illinois 6
Lock Haven 5
Stanford 5
West Virginia 4
Wyoming 4
Cal Poly 4
Pitt 3
Purdue 2
Rider 2
North Dakota St 2
Northern Illinois 2
App St 2
Utah Valley St 2
Fresno St 2
Oklahoma 2
Central Michigan 2
Virginia 2
Duke 2
Maryland 2
Northern Colorado 1
Clarion 1
Air Force 1
Pennsylvania 1
Bucknell 1
Binghamton 1
Old Dominion 1
Michigan St 1
Eastern Michigan 1
Kent St 1
Hofstra 1

 

[LIV4GOD]

Yeah I don’t understand the love for this new facility. It’s not going to bring a championship to Iowa City.

Did anyone say it did? It certainly can assist in bringing a championship here. Why not love something that is going to be awesome and add attractiveness when it comes to any edge with training? Facilities are important to recruits. These aren't baby-boomers we're recruiting.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I agree with most of your post other than “not TB fault” . I think most falls on him. He was one of the grestest D1 competitors of all time in my opinion, however it doesnt work leading this program. His persona is a major turn off to most fans, parents, refs, table workers and athletes. Other than in iowa i woupd say this is factual nation wide. Not alot of brands fans out there just based on his demeanor on the sidelines. His interviews are more difficult to watch than a taylor swift show!

We need a professional mature acting leader with similar credentials. They are out there. Id take a flyer on one of the fore mentioned thst havent been a head coach.

Ill agree, other than CS no other head coach now would be better. Not impressed with the field. However the dake, DT, metcalf, mc dounough….etc, would do way better. JMO!

I just can't take any of your posts like this seriously with your username @MAGAman. Almost every thing you say is contradicted by your username.

 

[wahlberg]

Here are the other schools which have more than one NCAA Champion, other than PSU. Over the last 5 years.

Cornell has two-Yanni & Vito
Michigan has two Suriano & Parris
Rutgers has two Suriano & Ashnault
Remove Suriano & Yanni and its even.
The last NCAA Champion from Ohio State was Snyder in 2018

Schools and wrestlers with multiple NCAA
Champions, other than PSU since 2018
Cornell Yanni (4)
Lee Iowa (3)
O’Toole Mizz (2)
O’ Connor NC (2)
Steveson MN (2)
Valencia ASU (2)

There are not other schools racking up more Champions than Iowa. It’s PSU vs. the field.

Team trophies (placing 1-4) over the last 5 years, other than PSU.
Iowa (5)
Ohio State (3) one since 2019 4th last year
Michigan (2)
Okie State (2)
Arizona St. (2)
Cornell (1) 3rd last year

Iowa is held to a higher standard, I get that. All the other schools out there who are seemingly out recruiting us, have better coaching and producing more NCAA Champions is a fallacy based on past results.

This is about catching PSU and nothing else. I realize this is going to met with opposition and scorn. I am on board with taking a hard look at our staff and techniques because I am not seeing improvement in finishing takedowns and scrambling abilities.
This is on Tom and I know we like our guys.
Our purpose is to win individual titles and team Championships. At this stage it’s all about process only the top team has better performance and process based on past results.

Great post. Thanks for pulling all of that together. However, I do wonder if there are some coaches out there who may actually have a better process, but have worse results due to being at schools who don’t draw the same caliber of recruits that we do at Iowa. If so, would it be worth seeing if they could improve things here?

I say this because it feels like we’re stuck in this distant second position, much closer to third than first. I don’t trust that Tom can get us unstuck from this spot because we’ve watched this story play out every year but one over the past 12-13 years. The risk is that we get worse. I get that. But I also think a new direction at the top is our only chance of spoiling PSUs party. Gotta risk it to get the biscuit I think.

I talked about process and practice structure on one of these recent threads. It just seems that you should practice how you want to compete. The structure and process should clearly facilitate your aim. And I think you need to figure out how to facilitate that aim from a mental standpoint as well.

Example:
If the aim is to score a lot of points in a short amount of time (7 minutes) against even wrestlers ranked in the top 20, then you’ll probably want to encourage creativity and risk-taking in the practice room. Why? Because that’s how you develop more ways to score points. More ways to score points means less likelihood an opponent can gameplan to slow you down.

Then, how do you encourage creativity and risk-taking in the practice room? You’ll probably want to keep the live goes short, with enough time to really recover in between them. This allows for wrestling at a higher pace without getting punished for doing so. And by punished, I mean that wrestling a high pace early in the live go in a practice structure with long live goes (or very short breaks between several fairly long live goes) opens yourself up to the risk of getting walloped the rest of practice, or just toughing it out and hanging on for dear life, because there’s a very good chance your opponent didn’t expend all that energy early on like you did so now he can grind you down for the remainder of the workout.

But you want to be able to go higher pace because a higher pace increases scoring rate in general and builds the habit of wrestling a high pace for the matches. You might also want to mix a lot of play wrestling in, as this lessens the stakes of each takedown. This allows wrestlers the feeling of freedom necessary to risk trying new holds, put themselves in positions they usually avoid (as the positions are outside their comfort zone), and spend more time in scrambles or otherwise engaged in the action rather than mostly just pressuring until a shot opens up.

There’s more you can do for this and that’s just one example. I could flesh it out even more, but this post is getting long and you get the idea. Point is, I don’t think our practice structure or training environment (not talking about the physical environment) facilitate the type of wrestling we’re all longing to see from our guys. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

I just can't take any of your posts like this seriously with your username @MAGAman. Almost every thing you say is contradicted by your username.

Maybe you should consider “maga” is more about the belief in policies than beloving the man? It’s a term constantly cultivated by the left to be a negative and as you can attest to it has worked with many.

 

[PSU Mike]

100% agree. And to expand here are total All Americans by school in the last 5 years (excluding 2020)

Penn St 35
Iowa 29
Ohio St 25
Arizona St 20
Michigan 20
Okie St 19
Missouri 18
Nebraska 18
Virginia Tech 17
Cornell 15 (did not compete 2021)
NC State 15
Minnesota 13
North Carolina 12
Northwestern 11
Wisconsin 10
Iowa St 9
Oregon St 9
Rutgers 9
Lehigh 8
Princeton 8 (did not compete 2021)
South Dakota State 6
Northern Iowa 6
Illinois 6
Lock Haven 5
Stanford 5
West Virginia 4
Wyoming 4
Cal Poly 4
Pitt 3
Purdue 2
Rider 2
North Dakota St 2
Northern Illinois 2
App St 2
Utah Valley St 2
Fresno St 2
Oklahoma 2
Central Michigan 2
Virginia 2
Duke 2
Maryland 2
Northern Colorado 1
Clarion 1
Air Force 1
Pennsylvania 1
Bucknell 1
Binghamton 1
Old Dominion 1
Michigan St 1
Eastern Michigan 1
Kent St 1
Hofstra 1

And if you held this next to finalist counts everybody will see exactly where the difference is (I’m not claiming you’re intentionally withholding that).

Also, on the subject of keeping Tom and hiring 1-2 great assistants, I have to think a number of names put out there wouldn’t be interested in working for him, and some have yet to build any experience except in clinics. I guess huge $$$ may sway somebody, but then comes with hefty raises for the rest of the staff or the dynamics get really weird.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

I just can't take any of your posts like this seriously with your username @MAGAman. Almost every thing you say is contradicted by your username.

Have you taken a second to think about what that says about you? Seriously.

 

[west2east]

"Some on here have no clue wtf they're talking about."

Yet he does?

"Many here suggest new head coaches who have never been D1 coaches"

Last time I checked, EVERY coach out there had to start sometime right?

"Morningstar is one of the best recruiters in the country."

The recruiting results say otherwise.

"You build it they will come that's how wrestling works."

Build what? The facility? Build Championships? What are we building here? It ALL starts with recruiting. Then developing.

Most on here know who I am and know my background. I never said I know everything. But reading some of this nonsense is hilarious. Every coach does need a start but that start doesn't happen with a top 5 program year in and year out. One of the best doesn't mean the best. Go look at recruiting rankings since M* was hired Iowa has been up there. Cael has built it (proving they can win individual titles with damn near everyone) now all the kids want to come that's what I meant by that. Just like Gable did

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Maybe you should consider “maga” is more about the belief in policies than beloving the man? It’s a term constantly cultivated by the left to be a negative and as you can attest to it has worked with many.

Most people who are "maga" love the man. They like the man specifically because of all of those terrible characteristics. Policies are secondary or irrelevant to them. They don't go to rallies or read his social media posts to hear him talk about policies. There isn't a cult of personality due to his policies. It's due to his personality traits.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Have you taken a second to think about what that says about you? Seriously.

This is pure deflection from the point.

 

[west2east]

Most people who are "maga" love the man. They like the man specifically because of all of those terrible characteristics. Policies are secondary or irrelevant to them. They don't go to rallies or read his social media posts to hear him talk about policies. There isn't a cult of personality due to his policies. It's due to his personality traits.

Go drink some vodka on a politics forum .

 

[Trapper85]

Great post. Thanks for pulling all of that together. However, I do wonder if there are some coaches out there who may actually have a better process, but have worse results due to being at schools who don’t draw the same caliber of recruits that we do at Iowa. If so, would it be worth seeing if they could improve things here?

I say this because it feels like we’re stuck in this distant second position, much closer to third than first. I don’t trust that Tom can get us unstuck from this spot because we’ve watched this story play out every year but one over the past 12-13 years. The risk is that we get worse. I get that. But I also think a new direction at the top is our only chance of spoiling PSUs party. Gotta risk it to get the biscuit I think.

I talked about process and practice structure on one of these recent threads. It just seems that you should practice how you want to compete. The structure and process should clearly facilitate your aim. And I think you need to figure out how to facilitate that aim from a mental standpoint as well.

Example:
If the aim is to score a lot of points in a short amount of time (7 minutes) against even wrestlers ranked in the top 20, then you’ll probably want to encourage creativity and risk-taking in the practice room. Why? Because that’s how you develop more ways to score points. More ways to score points means less likelihood an opponent can gameplan to slow you down.

Then, how do you encourage creativity and risk-taking in the practice room? You’ll probably want to keep the live goes short, with enough time to really recover in between them. This allows for wrestling at a higher pace without getting punished for doing so. And by punished, I mean that wrestling a high pace early in the live go in a practice structure with long live goes (or very short breaks between several fairly long live goes) opens yourself up to the risk of getting walloped the rest of practice, or just toughing it out and hanging on for dear life, because there’s a very good chance your opponent didn’t expend all that energy early on like you did so now he can grind you down for the remainder of the workout.

But you want to be able to go higher pace because a higher pace increases scoring rate in general and builds the habit of wrestling a high pace for the matches. You might also want to mix a lot of play wrestling in, as this lessens the stakes of each takedown. This allows wrestlers the feeling of freedom necessary to risk trying new holds, put themselves in positions they usually avoid (as the positions are outside their comfort zone), and spend more time in scrambles or otherwise engaged in the action rather than mostly just pressuring until a shot opens up.

There’s more you can do for this and that’s just one example. I could flesh it out even more, but this post is getting long and you get the idea. Point is, I don’t think our practice structure or training environment (not talking about the physical environment) facilitate the type of wrestling we’re all longing to see from our guys. Quite the opposite actually.

I can't speak to what the practices/training are in fact like now, but I do agree with your thesis here. And to it I would add that it only works if you recruit people who have the athleticism, 'mind wiring', and natural instinct. You can't use a bulldozer to navigate an obstacle course, a nimble heli-drone works better (unless said bulldozer is named Spencer).

 

[jmadden1998]

And if you held this next to finalist counts everybody will see exactly where the difference is (I’m not claiming you’re intentionally withholding that).

Also, on the subject of keeping Tom and hiring 1-2 great assistants, I have to think a number of names put out there wouldn’t be interested in working for him, and some have yet to build any experience except in clinics. I guess huge $$$ may sway somebody, but then comes with hefty raises for the rest of the staff or the dynamics get really weird.

Finalists by school last 5 years

Penn St 24
Iowa 7
Ohio St 7
Michigan 6
Cornell 6 (did not compete in 2021)
Okie St 5
Arizona St 4
Princeton 3 (did not compete in 2021)
North Carolina 3
Pitt 3
VA Tech 3
NC State 3
Rutgers 3
Missouri 2
Iowa St 2
Nebraska 2
Northern Iowa 2
South Dakota St 2
Stanford 2
Minnesota 2
Purdue 1
Northern Colorado 1
Northwestern 1
Rider 1
Virginia 1
Nebraska 1
Wyoming 1
Lock Haven 1
Illinois 1

 

[west2east]

Finalists by school last 5 years

Penn St 24
Iowa 7
Ohio St 7
Michigan 6
Cornell 6 (did not compete in 2021)
Okie St 5
Arizona St 4
Princeton 3 (did not compete in 2021)
North Carolina 3
Pitt 3
VA Tech 3
NC State 3
Rutgers 3
Missouri 2
Iowa St 2
Nebraska 2
Northern Iowa 2
South Dakota St 2
Stanford 2
Minnesota 2
Purdue 1
Northern Colorado 1
Northwestern 1
Rider 1
Virginia 1
Nebraska 1
Wyoming 1
Lock Haven 1
Illinois 1

So with the logic of many on this board every coach in D1 not named Cael should be fired .

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Most people who are "maga" love the man. They like the man specifically because of all of those terrible characteristics. Policies are secondary or irrelevant to them. They don't go to rallies or read his social media posts to hear him talk about policies. There isn't a cult of personality due to his policies. It's due to his personality traits.

The most polite answer I can give you is you are just plain wrong. That would be like me making the assumption that because you are opposed to his administration's polices that you must be pro ILLEGAL immigration? As such, you must be supportive of the drug cartels and have no issue with the flow of fentanyl into our country and the sex trafficking that is so profitable to your cartel? FYI - one of Trump's primary fights was to stop sex trafficking. You also then must be in favor of the more than 20,000 adult age Chinese men that have crossed illegally over our southern borders. Nothing to see there I'm sure. You must be in favor of biological men dominating and beating up women in "women's" sports? You must be in favor of the weaponization of the DOJ and actual destruction of our democracy through the targeting of political opponents? The true cult member looks past all that because Orange Man bad.

 

[HikeNatParks]

I just can't take any of your posts like this seriously with your username @MAGAman. Almost every thing you say is contradicted by your username.

Not following. Unless it changed, I believe the letters stand for Make America Great Again, a generic but positive concept most folks would rally around. Dwelling so heavily on a moniker might make some think you’re a drunk, which would be unfair as well. The dual of the year between two fierce rivals is upon us. That’s all that matters on these threads.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Not following. Unless it changed, I believe the letters stand for Make America Great Again, a generic but positive concept most folks would rally around.

Yep. That's all it stands for. Delusion.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

This is pure deflection from the point.

No, it's pointing out that in your exact own words you are too triggered by someone's username to even be able to digest his posts. That's borderline mental illness and that's putting it gently.