Sometimes I really don't understand

[LaxHawk174]

Lee - Champ - 24.5 pts (1st place + Pin + TF + Major)
Kemerer - Finalist - 20.5 pts (2nd place + Pin + TF + Major)
Sorensen - Finalist - 18.5 pts (2nd place + TF + Major)
PD3- Finalist - 19 pts (2nd place + Pin + Major)
Warner - Finalist - 18.5 pts (2nd place + TF + Major)
Marinelli - 4th - 14.5 pts
Stoll - 6th - 10 pts

Turk (3 pts) + Gunther(2.5 pts) + Laux(1.5 pts) = 7 pts

Total = 132.5 pts

But i'm just a crazy hawkeye fan, so feel free to disagree.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Kollin Moore is some type of unbeatable juggernaut? He's very good, and would be my pick to win, but he isn't Kyle Snyder.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Lee - Champ - 24.5 pts
Kemerer - Finalist - 20.5 pts
Sorensen - Finalist - 18.5 pts
PD3- Finalist - 19 pts
Warner - Finalist - 19 pts
Marinelli - 4th - 14.5 pts
Stoll - 6th - 10 pts

Turk (3 pts) + Gunther(2.5 pts) + Laux(1.5 pts) = 7 pts

Total = 133 pts

But i'm just a crazy hawkeye fan, so feel free to disagree.

Certainly possible. Everyone needs to be healthy and eligible first.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Kollin Moore is some type of unbeatable juggernaut? He's very good, and would be my pick to win, but he isn't Kyle Snyder.

I agree. Moore's physicality was definitely a factor in his win over Warner this summer, but Warner himself said in an interview that he psyched himself out a little too much about wrestling 'the returning 3rd place AA', which probably played as big of a factor as Moores physical advantage. I bet Warner would be in the match to win it by the 3rd time they wrestled this year in the NCAA finals (first two being the dual meet and B1G's).

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I agree. Moore's physicality was definitely a factor in his win over Warner this summer, but Warner himself said in an interview that he psyched himself out a little too much about wrestling 'the returning 3rd place AA', which probably played as big of a factor as Moores physical advantage. I bet Warner would be in the match to win it by the 3rd time they wrestled this year in the NCAA finals (first two being the dual meet and B1G's).

Dual meet, assuming Moore doesn’t happen to come up with an ill-timed injury shortly before the meet, as often happens to highly ranked Buckeyes. It’s uncanny.

 

[IAChief32]

How much more development does Warner need? He just beat the number 3 kid in the country by a major. He’s ready.

He also had real close matches with Woodley and Dixon. Can't cite one and ignore the others. They are not shabby but by next year, he will be bonusing them. I don't think there is a wrong answer to Lee and Warner but its just going to come down to the individual. I think Warner could compete with Moore but he would lose. That would be ok if we had a stout lineup with 3 or 4 other guys like Warner but we don't...yet. We want them to be like Zain, Nolf and Snyder capable of putting up big points at NCAAs...a mark it down kind of guy. Kemerer is the closest we have in today's lineup.

 

[1stplacehawk]

He also had real close matches with Woodley and Dixon. Can't cite one and ignore the others. They are not shabby but by next year, he will be bonusing them. I don't think there is a wrong answer to Lee and Warner but its just going to come down to the individual. I think Warner could compete with Moore but he would lose. That would be ok if we had a stout lineup with 3 or 4 other guys like Warner but we don't...yet. We want them to be like Zain, Nolf and Snyder capable of putting up big points at NCAAs...a mark it down kind of guy. Kemerer is the closest we have in today's lineup.

March is a long ways away. Warner could easily bonus those same guys in March. I'm fine with whatever our staff decides, but there is nothing definitive about what will happen in 5 months when you're talking about true freshman.

 

[crablegs1]

He also had real close matches with Woodley and Dixon. Can't cite one and ignore the others. They are not shabby but by next year, he will be bonusing them. I don't think there is a wrong answer to Lee and Warner but its just going to come down to the individual. I think Warner could compete with Moore but he would lose. That would be ok if we had a stout lineup with 3 or 4 other guys like Warner but we don't...yet. We want them to be like Zain, Nolf and Snyder capable of putting up big points at NCAAs...a mark it down kind of guy. Kemerer is the closest we have in today's lineup.

He still beat those guys. A lot of hypotheticals in your post. Fact is he’s ready to be competitive for an NCAA championship. He may still not be ready to beat Moore by next year. Plus there is always guys coming in like Beard. If he’s got a realistic chance to win a title I don’t see the reason to not wrestle him.

 

[1975hawkfan]

I hope they redshirt them, better to get healthier in Lee's cause and get both of them stronger and bigger. Lee against Fix will be very tough plus the former Penn State kid. There's a lot of depth at each weight class, so will be tough to be a all american at each weight. Some bloggers said 8 or 9 all americans for Iowa, that will not happen, no way. One guy said Marinelli finishing 4th, that will not happen at that weight class. He will be lucky if he can be a low all american. Young will not be a all american. I don't think PD3 will be a finalist. Also Penn State will still beat us big in bonus points. Last, just my opinion but I don't think Stoll will stay healthy. I hope I'm wrong on my predictions, I hope we have 10 champs!

 

[TNTwrestle]

I agree, there has been a lot of good discussion and a lot of (over)thinking done on this thread, and a lot of good valid points made both ways. My opinion isn't any better than most of the others here, but I have to throw in my 2 cents;

I think a lot of you are looking at the Warner thing all wrong. IF PDIII pans out (and that's a BIG if), why pull Warner's shirt? You're throwing Wilcke under the bus. This is a guy who nearly made AA last year, wrestling up a weight. He seems to be a little bigger this year (although I hope not enough bigger he can't get back to '84 next year, where we need him) and I think he's at worst 1-2 places lower than Warner. I say that for the following reasons; Warner didn't exactly dominate the wrestle-off over Wilcke (and I know, familiarity and all that), Warner had some close matches against lesser opponents before having his epiphany against Miklus, and finally, Miklus at #3 is kind of a joke. He has always been very inconsistent and has had "bad" losses several times in the past, so he is not a good barometer to gauge whether Warner is finalist material or not. I hate to waste Wilcke this year when we could possibly (just speculation) have him at '84 and Warner at '97 the next two years, and Warner for two more beyond that.

I want Spencer Lee to be, without a doubt !00% healthy if we pull his shirt. I'd hate to pull it, have him reinjure it a few matches later (or especially enough matches later that he couldn't get it back as a medical) and then be rehabbing at the beginning of next year again and being a question mark like Stoll has been for two years now. I think Spencer could win it all this year, if healthy, but if we can't win, I'd rather have him the next 4.

I agree that it is doubtful that PSU will have 5 champs again, and I would bet that PSU and fOSU will have a disappointment or two along the way, but even with that, we would need an almost perfect storm to win this year, and that's being a realist, not a pessimist. BTW I'm a baby-boomer, not a millenial and I've been doing this wrestling and wrestling fan thing for 45+ years.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I hope they redshirt them, better to get healthier in Lee's cause and get both of them stronger and bigger. Lee against Fix will be very tough plus the former Penn State kid. There's a lot of depth at each weight class, so will be tough to be a all american at each weight. Some bloggers said 8 or 9 all americans for Iowa, that will not happen, no way. One guy said Marinelli finishing 4th, that will not happen at that weight class. He will be lucky if he can be a low all american. Young will not be a all american. I don't think PD3 will be a finalist. Also Penn State will still beat us big in bonus points. Last, just my opinion but I don't think Stoll will stay healthy. I hope I'm wrong on my predictions, I hope we have 10 champs!

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, and let’s be honest. It’s just as valid as anyone’s at this point. I think you’re selling our guys short and don’t appreciate the level of talent in several cases. I hope our guys get the chance to prove you wrong, and I’m sure that would be just fine with you, as I realize you hope that happens.

 

[HawkFT]

At the end of the day, it's up to each individual wrestler and the coaches to weigh the pros and cons of unleashing them as true freshmen. It's a BLAST for us to speculate, and that's half of the BLAST of being a fan, so I see nothing wrong with fans pondering what might be if we unleash the hounds this year. Still, any speculation on our part is completely irrelevant to the decision that ends up being made by each wrestler.

But I tell ya, if we do go all in for a team title this year, imagine the excitement. There's already quite a bit of buzz around the program and the HWC, but if our super frosh blow them away at Midlands and we turn them loose in January, the buzz will be taken to a whole new level. Attendance will increase even more and Big Tens and Nationals get a whole lot more interesting. The bandwagon would be overflowing. And the timing is something to think about. With other top programs loaded to the gills with talent, it would be all the sweeter to knock them off and get back on top. . . And we're really, in many ways, just getting started with the revamped model of Iowa wrestling. Just one more factor to consider in the decision.

FIFY

 

[grapplefann]

Call me old school, but if you do what's best for the guys, then you do what's best for the program. Lots of GREAT opinions on this thread, and all have merit. As jvclark says, have the coaches, wrestlers, and parents talk, and find out what's best for EACH guy, and then do that. It may be different for different guys. This is why Tom is paid the big bucks. Yes, it is a reloading year, but I predict some positive surprises.

 

[wasdt21]

i noticed slushbrain didn't put suriano in the finals.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

i noticed slushbrain didn't put suriano in the finals.

I hear his development started slowing down as soon as he arrived in Piscataway.

 

[slushhead]

i noticed slushbrain didn't put suriano in the finals.

Yeah, the constraint for that hypothetical finals list was only guys from PSU, tOSU, Iowa, OkSt, and Michigan. Obviously, that will not end up being the case.

Suriano has a great shot at making the finals. I actually believe he should be the favorite to win the weight class -- at least until we see what Lee does, and how NaTo heals and manages the cut.

 

[IAChief32]

He still beat those guys. A lot of hypotheticals in your post. Fact is he’s ready to be competitive for an NCAA championship. He may still not be ready to beat Moore by next year. Plus there is always guys coming in like Beard. If he’s got a realistic chance to win a title I don’t see the reason to not wrestle him.

Our line up is a hypothetical right now. I am not worried about Beard. Moore is the dude to beat. With 197, we have Wilcke who I think can be a low AA in that division. If we had a great lineup and it was a matter of inserting a guy like Jake in to put us over the hump at NCAAs against PSU, then I'm sure both the staff and Jake would be all for it. Trust me, nobody more than me wants to see our best lineup out there now that I am in IC and actually going to the duals. If Jake goes into Midlands and dominates...than we will have that discussion and we can all chip in and send steaks to the staff and Mr Warner so they can let that boy eat.

 

[rorya]

I too have been to this site for many years. Big Hawkeye fan. Alumni, class of '77, wrestled in high school. Read the posts frequently in the season and sometimes off season. Turning 60 now and living out of state makes me miss my home state even more. I agree with everything the first two posters said..... some posters here are more argumentative and quick to try to insult each other, than in the past... it's a shame really...

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I too have been to this site for many years. Big Hawkeye fan. Alumni, class of '77, wrestled in high school. Read the posts frequently in the season and sometimes off season. Turning 60 now and living out of state makes me miss my home state even more. I agree with everything the first two posters said..... some posters here are more argumentative and quick to try to insult each other, than in the past... it's a shame really...

Sadly, this has been a trend in recent years. Now, would you just get off this board right now, ya &%$#!!!

 

[IAChief32]

I too have been to this site for many years. Big Hawkeye fan. Alumni, class of '77, wrestled in high school. Read the posts frequently in the season and sometimes off season. Turning 60 now and living out of state makes me miss my home state even more. I agree with everything the first two posters said..... some posters here are more argumentative and quick to try to insult each other, than in the past... it's a shame really...

With that kind of attitude, you can just stay out west...we don't need you!!

Just kidding of course. I think we forget our manners sometimes (me included)...I think its a territorial thing. Automatically attack outsiders without giving chances. Also, we've been Twitterized and Facebooked...anonymity allows us to be crass. However, I do think this is a good place for dudes just to be dudes,talk a little smack, and show some passion for the greatest sport on earth.

Feel free to post more.

 

[AFHawk86]

Sadly, this has been a trend in recent years. Now, would you just get off this board right now, ya &%$#!!!

You forgot a winky...

 

[AFHawk86]

Our line up is a hypothetical right now. I am not worried about Beard. Moore is the dude to beat. With 197, we have Wilcke who I think can be a low AA in that division. If we had a great lineup and it was a matter of inserting a guy like Jake in to put us over the hump at NCAAs against PSU, then I'm sure both the staff and Jake would be all for it. Trust me, nobody more than me wants to see our best lineup out there now that I am in IC and actually going to the duals. If Jake goes into Midlands and dominates...than we will have that discussion and we can all chip in and send steaks to the staff and Mr Warner so they can let that boy eat.

Potential problem with using Midlands as the decision point is 197 may not be a difficult bracket. We will see.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

You forgot a winky...

I was dead serious. Guy got exactly what he deserved.