Spencer Lee issues?

[CP84]

We've heard from Brands that there are issues Lee is dealing with without elaborating.

I've heard he had a bout with mono, which wouldn't be the first time. He also had this is HS from what I recall. I know mono effectively ruined Connor McCaffrey's freshman year of basketball, although he was able to get a medical redshirt.

The question is, if there are issues, when did they occur and what is the severity? I am more inclined after yesterday to believe he has been dealing with something significant. He has demonstrated no energy after the first period. Even in the Pat Glory match after dominating the first period 12-0 he laid around for the next 4 minutes. If these issues were hurting him before the season started then it's unfortunate that we didn't use a redshirt this season, given that it's really a rebuilding year anyway.

 

[CradleKing26]

I'm starting to wonder if his relative struggles are between his ears, not a physical ailment. He just hasn't looked like the same guy all year.

 

[JohnBasedow]

A lot of people have been mum on it and someone more knowledgeable is free to correct me but I believe it started shortly before the Purdue dual. It sounds like it may have been misdiagnosed or more severe that initially thought. If they would have known immediately the severity then yeah a medical redshirt might have been something they considered but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[CP84]

I'm starting to wonder if his relative struggles are between his ears, not a physical ailment. He just hasn't looked like the same guy all year.

I really don't think so. His cardio wasn't great early last season but it's extremely poor this year. I've also heard from a source within the program that he is struggling in practice.

 

[Chips28]

I’m not sure we will ever find out. Last week he looked to be on his way back. Two weigh-ins, two pins. This week flat, no energy at all. Something doesn’t add up. Disappointing doesn’t even begin to describe it

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

A lot of people like to allude to something going on, but it seems like very few have any actual information about what’s going on with Spencer Lee. His wresting would make a lot more sense if he hadn’t looked like his old self at times this season. But, he has. And he’s also looked like a shell of himself. The whole deal is maddening to witness. I can’t imagine how he must feel about it.

 

[IAChief32]

I'm starting to wonder if his relative struggles are between his ears, not a physical ailment. He just hasn't looked like the same guy all year.

Let's expand on this because I know some people are thinking it. Maybe he has big match issues? I might agree but Spencer has been in big matches his whole career with eyes on him starting in the 8th grade. Maybe it's hostile territory? He went into tOSU and beat NATO last year. Could it be the pressure of being the Great White Hope at Iowa? Well that started the day he said "I Want to be a Hawkeye" and he handled it last year with ease when he was coming off injury into a B1G schedule loaded with studs that wanted to add his scalp. He looked fine at Midlands before his shirt was pulled but had a few matches where he looked like this in the third. He was fine by the tOSU match and through the NCAAs. The only time I saw this type of body language from him in H.S. was during PA State his senior year. Go back and watch the Desanto match.

Before the season, I watched him at practice before the season and he looked ripped...like he had put on some muscle and he was rolling just fine with guys like Clark. Flash forward a few months to the Iowa State dual and he started looking like he does now. He is good enough to beat pretty much any non top 5 guy but he is not the Spencer I have seen for the past 6 years. It isn't because of effort, nor lack of drive...so I am guessing it is physical and he is writing checks his body can't cash. But what the hell do I know...except I am a Spencer Lee ride or die. Best thing to happen to Iowa wrestling in a long time and I hope he gets it figured out.

 

[js8793]

I'm starting to wonder if his relative struggles are between his ears, not a physical ailment. He just hasn't looked like the same guy all year.

I actually think it's both. Major physical limitations can have a serious effect on your confidence and mindset during the match. I think he's afraid of fading late in tight matches. You could see it yesterday after Picc got that escape. He knew he was going to have to be able to wrestle hard late. He's definitely not the same guy.

 

[Chips28]

I actually think it's both. Major physical limitations can have a serious effect on your confidence and mindset during the match. I think he's afraid of fading late in tight matches. You could see it yesterday after Picc got that escape. He knew he was going to have to be able to wrestle hard late. He's definitely not the same guy.

I think this is possible as well, not finishing that first shot may have been the beginning of the end yesterday.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

I’m not sure we will ever find out. Last week he looked to be on his way back. Two weigh-ins, two pins. This week flat, no energy at all. Something doesn’t add up. Disappointing doesn’t even begin to describe it

Sounds like mono to me. Like all of you, I have no idea what's going on with him, but I can tell you from my own experience that mono impacted me in a pattern that is very close to what we are seeing out of Spencer right now.

I first got it as a Jr in high school, some days I felt like death, other days I felt 100% but anytime I pushed myself on one of those good days, I was quickly reminded that I was ill because my energy went from 100 to zero in a matter of minutes. That bout of mono took me out of all sports my Jr year (no energy) and lasted for over 6 months.

A year and a half later it came back. Exactly the same feelings / symptoms. The 2nd time it lasted for 3 more months. It wasn't as bad at that point because I wasn't doing much physically any more except for 12oz curls, but it was tiring, depressing and seemed never ending.

I don't know about SL, but this seems like what I went through, and it was tough and I was just a regular student / person, not an elite athlete and student, so I can only imagine how hard this must be, if true, when your body won't do what you want.

Last year Spencer went through some tough competition to become a champ, none of these guys are what Nato or Suriano were. No way this is anything but a physical limitation and you can see it, not in the W / L column, but looking at his body language in all these matches. Near the end of the 1st and during the 2nd period you can see a noticeable change in his presence on the mat.

 

[js8793]

I think a lot of people who haven't had mono or had someone close you have mono really underestimate how bad it is. A lot of people just think it's like strep throat. Mono is often a debilitating illness. One of my close friends from college (a 4.0 student) nearly didn't graduate high school because she got mono. It lasted 8 months and she ended up having to work with the school to do a lot of her work at home because she could barely get out of bed a lot of days. If that's what Spencer has, I'm amazed he's been able to wrestle at the level he has frankly.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Sounds like mono to me. Like all of you, I have no idea what's going on with him, but I can tell you from my own experience that mono impacted me in a pattern that is very close to what we are seeing out of Spencer right now.

I first got it as a Jr in high school, some days I felt like death, other days I felt 100% but anytime I pushed myself on one of those good days, I was quickly reminded that I was ill because my energy went from 100 to zero in a matter of minutes. That bout of mono took me out of all sports my Jr year (no energy) and lasted for over 6 months.

A year and a half later it came back. Exactly the same feelings / symptoms. The 2nd time it lasted for 3 more months. It wasn't as bad at that point because I wasn't doing much physically any more except for 12oz curls, but it was tiring, depressing and seemed never ending.

I don't know about SL, but this seems like what I went through, and it was tough and I was just a regular student / person, not an elite athlete and student, so I can only imagine how hard this must be, if true, when your body won't do what you want.

Last year Spencer went through some tough competition to become a champ, none of these guys are what Nato or Suriano were. No way this is anything but a physical limitation and you can see it, not in the W / L column, but looking at his body language in all these matches. Near the end of the 1st and during the 2nd period you can see a noticeable change in his presence on the mat.

As soon as Picci was pushed out of bounds after the escape, you could literally see his shoulders drop as he knew he had no energy to finish the match.

 

[Czech Hawk]

I don't think he is healthy, ultimately I hope he can get healthy at some point. He is a kid going through something for sure. No matter what happens, I will always be all in on Spencer Lee!!

 

[IAChief32]

Sounds like mono to me. Like all of you, I have no idea what's going on with him, but I can tell you from my own experience that mono impacted me in a pattern that is very close to what we are seeing out of Spencer right now.

I first got it as a Jr in high school, some days I felt like death, other days I felt 100% but anytime I pushed myself on one of those good days, I was quickly reminded that I was ill because my energy went from 100 to zero in a matter of minutes. That bout of mono took me out of all sports my Jr year (no energy) and lasted for over 6 months.

A year and a half later it came back. Exactly the same feelings / symptoms. The 2nd time it lasted for 3 more months. It wasn't as bad at that point because I wasn't doing much physically any more except for 12oz curls, but it was tiring, depressing and seemed never ending.

I don't know about SL, but this seems like what I went through, and it was tough and I was just a regular student / person, not an elite athlete and student, so I can only imagine how hard this must be, if true, when your body won't do what you want.

Last year Spencer went through some tough competition to become a champ, none of these guys are what Nato or Suriano were. No way this is anything but a physical limitation.

I had Valley Fever my junior year down in Az. I was exhausted all the time. Just wanted to sleep and anything above a slow jog wore me out. Luckily, it hit me in spring but lasted for around 4-5 months. At first, my parents thought I was just being lazy or sleeping too much.

 

[grapplefann]

I had a fever for the pretty blonde in my 11th grade chemistry class. Couldn't function all semester. Does that count?

 

[Neo_Hawk]

I had Valley Fever my junior year down in Az. I was exhausted all the time. Just wanted to sleep and anything above a slow jog wore me out. Luckily, it hit me in spring but lasted for around 4-5 months. At first, my parents thought I was just being lazy or sleeping too much.

Funny, my parents thought the same thing, I was being lazy. In all honestly, I can't blame them, I was pretty lazy, even when fully healthy.

My girlfriend at the time thought I was stepping out because I never wanted to do anything with her and when we did get together I was not interested in ..... well, you know. THATS how bad mono sucked.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Let's expand on this because I know some people are thinking it. Maybe he has big match issues? I might agree but Spencer has been in big matches his whole career with eyes on him starting in the 8th grade. Maybe it's hostile territory? He went into tOSU and beat NATO last year. Could it be the pressure of being the Great White Hope at Iowa? Well that started the day he said "I Want to be a Hawkeye" and he handled it last year with ease when he was coming off injury into a B1G schedule loaded with studs that wanted to add his scalp. He looked fine at Midlands before his shirt was pulled but had a few matches where he looked like this in the third. He was fine by the tOSU match and through the NCAAs. The only time I saw this type of body language from him in H.S. was during PA State his senior year. Go back and watch the Desanto match.

Before the season, I watched him at practice before the season and he looked ripped...like he had put on some muscle and he was rolling just fine with guys like Clark. Flash forward a few months to the Iowa State dual and he started looking like he does now. He is good enough to beat pretty much any non top 5 guy but he is not the Spencer I have seen for the past 6 years. It isn't because of effort, nor lack of drive...so I am guessing it is physical and he is writing checks his body can't cash. But what the hell do I know...except I am a Spencer Lee ride or die. Best thing to happen to Iowa wrestling in a long time and I hope he gets it figured out.

Maybe he's lsoing the drive, the why? The kid has pushed for years. He's wrestled all his life. I have no idea but it could be multiple things jsut adding up. I have no idea.

 

[fizzyskittles]

I think a lot of people who haven't had mono or had someone close you have mono really underestimate how bad it is. A lot of people just think it's like strep throat. Mono is often a debilitating illness. One of my close friends from college (a 4.0 student) nearly didn't graduate high school because she got mono. It lasted 8 months and she ended up having to work with the school to do a lot of her work at home because she could barely get out of bed a lot of days. If that's what Spencer has, I'm amazed he's been able to wrestle at the level he has frankly.

I never had mon but had shingles and that wiped me out. I was exhausted after walking a block. There was no way I could work out. 4-6 weeks later I was okay.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

As soon as Picci was pushed out of bounds after the escape, you could literally see his shoulders drop as he knew he had no energy to finish the match.

Exactly. My wife and I point it out to each other every match he has, you can see it plain as day. We first noticed it during the Princeton meet, which I attributed to Glory, but as the season wound on, it was clearly something else.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

And let me just add this: Spencer Lee is a straight up stud wrestler. He leggit pinned returning champ NATO and not some lucky, got caught pin, he didn't allow anything but an escape against Suriano - oh and he pinned Picc.

It's not some new found trick to beating him, it's not him folding under pressure. If I am certain of anything it's that. He may work it out this year, but there is no doubt ass whoopins are on their way next year. Some of these guys might feel like kings right now, enjoy it while it lasts fellas.

 

[choosenuetral]

People would feel a lot better if they saw a big brace or something they could resolve his performance with. He’s not the kind of young man to make excuses so neither will I. It’s clearly energy related right now. If you saw his reaction after his 4th HS title was lost, it was all about moving forward. He’s got the same mentality now. Anything less and his mom would hip toss him to an armbar and straighten him out.

 

[burk11]

If any athlete, regardless of the sport he/she was competing in, was physically ill/impaired to the point of such of an extreme deterioration of performance as we see in S/L, should not '"somebody's" judgement be questioned? Why is the coach allowing him to compete? Why doesn't AD intervene; why doesn't a parent speak-up? This situation seems to call out for someone's attention. Everybody can "see" a serious/real problem.

 

[HoundedHawk]

This guy is a multi time world champ. In front of a packed arena he kicked major butt at last year's nattys. It has nothing to do with a mental initiated problem.

He has something medical that causes massive drain of energy with exertion, which, therefore, no amount of training can fix. And, of course, you can imagine what that is doing to him mentally.

 

[TNTwrestle]

OK, how many threads are we going to have about this? At least nobody brought up weight-cutting in this one. It is obviously something very serious physically.
In one of the first threads about this, one VERY reliable poster said it was something worse than mono. He also said it SHOULD be resolved by March, and I've been very hopeful about that, but haven't seen much in the way of physical gains yet, and time is running out. I keep watching for little things like his grip strength returning or gaining a half-step of his quickness back, but just when I think I see something, it disappears. I think at 70-80%, Spencer Lee is still 4th-6th Place at NCAAs, but we all want to see 1st Place, as I'm sure Spencer does as well. I'm sure he and the staff are doing everything they can to make it happen. All we can do is hope and/or pray.
Yesterday the sky was falling for the whole team, but there were positives to take away from it in a few matches, and I think a lot can be remedied by mid-March. I just hope Spencer's issues can be.

 

[slushhead]

I actually think it's both. Major physical limitations can have a serious effect on your confidence and mindset during the match. I think he's afraid of fading late in tight matches. You could see it yesterday after Picc got that escape. He knew he was going to have to be able to wrestle hard late. He's definitely not the same guy.

I was no Spencer Lee, but man did my asthma mess with my head when I wrestled. If I didn't get a 1st period fall, worry crept in. By the third, it was fear, and I was just hanging on trying not to lose. Pretty much my psyche in all but 2 matches. In those two, some trigger went off in my head and I actually finished strong (but one of those came after a nice lunger).

 

[js8793]

I was no Spencer Lee, but man did my asthma mess with my head when I wrestled. If I didn't get a 1st period fall, worry crept in. By the third, it was fear, and I was just hanging on trying not to lose. Pretty much my psyche in all but 2 matches. In those two, some trigger went off in my head and I actually finished strong (but one of those came after a nice lunger).

I had similar issues with nerves my junior year. I had a nagging knee injury that messed with my head more than anything. I was in great shape, but never left the first period without being completely gassed.

 

[rossel 33]

This guy is a multi time world champ. In front of a packed arena he kicked major butt at last year's nattys. It has nothing to do with a mental initiated problem.

He has something medical that causes massive drain of energy with exertion, which, therefore, no amount of training can fix. And, of course, you can imagine what that is doing to him mentally.

This!

As TNT posted, someone more "in the know" posted a while back that it was not mono, and that it was something of a serious nature. That's really about all most of us know.

It is most likely lingering effects from whatever illness he had (has). I seriously doubt it has anything to do with losing his drive, folding under pressure, others scouting his weaknesses, weight cutting, or any of the other BS that gets posted.

 

[T.A.J.]

Whatever it is, the ENTIRE wrestling community is praying he returns to form quickly. Theres nearly a month to get there for Nationals so I'm holding out hope he does just that.

 

[Mattski]

I think its injury not illness. If it were illness there would be no harm in the staff or Lee himself sharing it. Rumor I heard he was injured earlier this year at practice. Possibly a shoulder. Don't shoot the messenger, this is what I heard from what I consider a very good source. Same source shared the some on the multiple injuries of kemdog and how jwar got hurt earlier this year.

 

[IAChief32]

If any athlete, regardless of the sport he/she was competing in, was physically ill/impaired to the point of such of an extreme deterioration of performance as we see in S/L, should not '"somebody's" judgement be questioned? Why is the coach allowing him to compete? Why doesn't AD intervene; why doesn't a parent speak-up? This situation seems to call out for someone's attention. Everybody can "see" a serious/real problem.

Was going to post an axe grinding gif but I'll the insert the "Stretch" one here instead. Y'all are welcome.

 

[Grip220]

Was going to post an axe grinding gif but I'll the insert the "Stretch" one here instead. Y'all are welcome.

Woah that takes your mind off of things for a minute now does’nt it.. jeeez

 

[WI Clone]

I’m wondering if they cnsidered redshirting him earlier. I feel for the kid. He should be a ironclad lock 4 timer. Unless something drastic happens I just don’t see it this year.

 

[Tony Hawk]

Let's expand on this because I know some people are thinking it. Maybe he has big match issues? I might agree but Spencer has been in big matches his whole career with eyes on him starting in the 8th grade. Maybe it's hostile territory? He went into tOSU and beat NATO last year. Could it be the pressure of being the Great White Hope at Iowa? Well that started the day he said "I Want to be a Hawkeye" and he handled it last year with ease when he was coming off injury into a B1G schedule loaded with studs that wanted to add his scalp. He looked fine at Midlands before his shirt was pulled but had a few matches where he looked like this in the third. He was fine by the tOSU match and through the NCAAs. The only time I saw this type of body language from him in H.S. was during PA State his senior year. Go back and watch the Desanto match.

Before the season, I watched him at practice before the season and he looked ripped...like he had put on some muscle and he was rolling just fine with guys like Clark. Flash forward a few months to the Iowa State dual and he started looking like he does now. He is good enough to beat pretty much any non top 5 guy but he is not the Spencer I have seen for the past 6 years. It isn't because of effort, nor lack of drive...so I am guessing it is physical and he is writing checks his body can't cash. But what the hell do I know...except I am a Spencer Lee ride or die. Best thing to happen to Iowa wrestling in a long time and I hope he gets it figured out.

I was wrong

 

[Tony Hawk]

I had similar issues with nerves my junior year. I had a nagging knee injury that messed with my head more than anything. I was in great shape, but never left the first period without being completely gassed.

You sound like 95% of all wrestlers . I too was also gassed after the first period so I decided to master the front headlock into a cradle option and the cement mixer so I could make sure my lungs weren’t tested much

 

[24Hawkeye7]

none of these guys are what Nato or Suriano were.

THIS x 1000

 

[evashevsky58]

This!

As TNT posted, someone more "in the know" posted a while back that it was not mono, and that it was something serious, of a serious nature. That's really about all most of us know.

It is most likely lingering effects from whatever illness he had (has). I seriously doubt it has anything to do with losing his drive, folding under pressure, others scouting his weaknesses, weight cutting, or any of the other BS that gets posted.

What about panic attacks?

 

[IAChief32]

Not to point it out or anything but he lost to NATO in hostile territory like 3-1 I thought?

Won at Ohio State 3-2, lost 2-1 at B1G.

 

[TNTwrestle]

Not to point it out or anything but he lost to NATO in hostile territory like 3-1 I thought?

Not how I remember it. He won at tOSU in the dual, lost at the B1G tourney, and of course, owned him at NCAA.

Edit; looks like Chief and I were posting at the same time. At least I was right this time.

 

[Lambertt]

After Lee gave up the escape to Picc the kxic announcer immediately said that Lee looked tired. For you who were watching did Lee look tired or did he look like he was bothered by some kind of injury?

 

[artradley]

It could also be Lyme disease. Who knows.

What I am certain about, is that it is absurd to think this is anything other than a medical issue. Do you think he didn’t bring Picc back to the center because Spencer Lee forgot basics? Do you think it was because Spencer Lee - Spencer friggin’ Lee - is lazy?

It was because he didn’t have the energy to do it; he tried to get the two with the least effort possible, because he knew he was going to have to go seven minutes.

He hasn’t had moments when he looked better. 70% Lee pins anyone outside of the top ten, without much effort. But you could tell he wasn’t right.