Spencer vs. RBY
- Thread starter Kinnick.At.Night
- Start date
No, WE are not. Cass is an outstanding HWT., and he's in the conversation to win it for sure. He and a few others.
Nah we are gonna hand it to Kerklivet even though Cass keeps beating him.
I was replying to your nonsensical comment about “running away all match”. I used actual data to show that your tilted view is incorrect. If RBY does run away all the time, how did he have more takedowns in the tourney with less matches?
I was referring to the tourney.
Spencer wins this match very comfortably & he could move up a weight & do it. No doubt about it.
Well, it is sort of a knock…. on you. And you should consider apologizing to yourself. (Further proof that child birth can lower IQ of parents.)
If anybody says that Warner & Lee are on the same level, respectively, I'll be sure to correct them
You're free to read the quote that said Cass is going to win one now that Gable is gone.
Reading is fundamental. Comprehension is optional apparently.
Go watch EVERY match with ADS and the finals against Fix. He spent more times OOB than he did inbounds. Like I said, every time he feels as if he could possibly lose, he goes into running/stay away mode
Yeah, I agree. Warner should have scored more against Dean. 😉Or about the same amount as opponents of Max Dean should have got
Would be a very tough match for Lee as RBY is extremely athletic and a weight class higher. The guy is a 2x champ. He is solid.
With that minimal offense, how is it they so frequently score more offensive points than their opponents?
Actually, if the match was a 125 weigh-in Spencer easily beats a depleted RBY. If it is a 133 weigh-in RBY beats a bulkier Spencer. At 133 Spencer probably loses to Fix also.
Actually it was a different Arizona wrestler I was thinking of. And I don't really care much about hypothetical matches between guys at different weights. They're about as interesting as you cockroaches scurrying over here to post again.
I don’t think people appreciate how difficult it is going up a weight class and beating the top guy. This goes for any weight class but particularly a weight class like 133 which is represented by a number of talented wrestlers. Now if anyone can do it, SL is as likely as any but there would be a very apparent size disparity.
Insanity is hereditary. You get it from your kids.
That’s right he did tech Glory the first time. I forgot about that one. The last time they wrestled was a decision though.
I have wanted to respond to a lot of idiotic remarks on this thread, mainly by trolls, but a few true Iowa fans thinking they were being realistic, but I promised myself I would not respond to trolls, and some people just don't really understand this sport or how it works. I just put the obvious trolls on ignore after two or three stupid posts and occasionally hit the "Show ignored content" button to laugh at what stupid thing they come up with. At least two newbies on this thread have earned that treatment.
Boards like this are all about opinions, and it is very unlikely we'll ever see this match-up in a folkstyle match because it makes no sense team-wise to make it happen, but, I'll throw in my two cents;
A HEALTHY Spencer lee takes anyone at 125 or 133 by at least a major. That is kind of hypothetical, mainly because we've only seen a handful (if even that) of matches that he has been healthy in college. I'm saying he would not have taken any of the aforementioned losses if he was 100% for any of them. Bresser would have been the one he was healthiest in, and that one he was coming back too early from ACL surgery in, and it was lost on a couple of questionable calls. That match showed that stalling was the best way to try to beat him, but when healthy, I don't think that's possible. We'll probably never know what his ailment was his second year, and we know the first ACL got messed up again that year, but he was not healthy during the Picc loss (which was also a fluke) or his two losses to Rivera. Even at less than healthy, no one has beat him in mid-March. I could go on, but I think I've stated my opinion. People have other ones, but lots of times people are wrong. I just hope we get to see him healthy next season and beyond so we can see how many World and Olympic titles he can pile up.
Boards like this are all about opinions, and it is very unlikely we'll ever see this match-up in a folkstyle match because it makes no sense team-wise to make it happen, but, I'll throw in my two cents;
A HEALTHY Spencer lee takes anyone at 125 or 133 by at least a major. That is kind of hypothetical, mainly because we've only seen a handful (if even that) of matches that he has been healthy in college. I'm saying he would not have taken any of the aforementioned losses if he was 100% for any of them. Bresser would have been the one he was healthiest in, and that one he was coming back too early from ACL surgery in, and it was lost on a couple of questionable calls. That match showed that stalling was the best way to try to beat him, but when healthy, I don't think that's possible. We'll probably never know what his ailment was his second year, and we know the first ACL got messed up again that year, but he was not healthy during the Picc loss (which was also a fluke) or his two losses to Rivera. Even at less than healthy, no one has beat him in mid-March. I could go on, but I think I've stated my opinion. People have other ones, but lots of times people are wrong. I just hope we get to see him healthy next season and beyond so we can see how many World and Olympic titles he can pile up.
So frequently? Other than Lee & possibly Brooks, PSU counter wrestles while providing lots of movement & dancing. They’re very good at it but unless wrestling vastly overmatched opponents they play the counter game when neutral. Considering the refs aren’t making them engage, not even sure the dancing is necessary but it’s movement & minimizes the stall calls. They’ve been effective with the athletes they have but I wouldn’t call it offensive wrestling. My opinion, you may have your own. As I said, they’ve been coached well, another opinion.
A bulkier Spencer?? lmao
Spencer doesn't need to "bulk up" to beat RBY. Spencer could weigh in at 125, bump up and beat RBY by a very comfortable margin.
So you are able to compartmentalize Spencer's wrestling career into times where you decide he was "injured" and times where you decide he was "healthy" and place that "healthy" Spencer against other wrestlers based on their general college careers regardless of whether they were healthy or injured. Doesn't seem fair.
Obviously, RBY was less than 100% this year but the analysis of his performance on this board give no credence to this fact.
IMO, it is absolutely insane to say that a healthy Spencer beats any healthy 133 lbs. wrestler "by at least a major." He has a history of wrestling Suriano in his same weight class and that history, to the best of my knowledge, does not involve a lot of majors. There is also a history of Fix vs. Lee that, to the best of my knowledge, does not lend itself to your theory that Spencer beats Fix "by at least a major." RBY is better than Fix.
In my opinion, if Spencer jumped up to 133 to wrestle RBY in a dual, RBY would beat Spencer because he is simply bigger. If RBY tried to get down to 125 and wrestle Spencer in a dual, I think Spencer would beat him because it is too big of a cut.
Well, obviously the best lightweight room in the country that couldn't get ADS past RBY has dramatically improved Lee despite his #1 recruit status. So, even with RBY's improvement, Lee would still take him.
I’ll take this post as you backing down to my challenge. Afraid to get embarrassed?
Yes, some assumptions were made. But generally, if someone is significantly banged up or ill, there is some outward sign of it. Sometimes those signs are very subtle, and if you do not know the wrestler well, they are very hard to see. I'll give you Nick Lee was nursing something the second half of this year, and Sebastian Rivera had something off. I saw nothing from RBY in any matches I saw, to say he was hurting, and I saw quite a few of his matches this year. Quite the opposite, I thought he was more aggressive than usual, and often looked better than I have seen him look in the past.
You can tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel good, but Spencer has not had a fully healthy season since he's been at Iowa. Marinelli only had one completely healthy year, everyone knows Kem has been banged up a lot. As has been stated in many threads on this board. Iowa needs to take a hard look at our S & C practices and how we run practice as a whole, because we have had way higher than average injury problems for some time now. This year it reached epidemic proportions.
Eight pounds, at the D1 level is a significant thing, but Spencer is not just an above-average wrestler, he is truly elite. RBY may be elite too, but if so there are different levels of elite. As I said, this will likely never happen, so we'll just have to believe what we believe and agree to disagree. I would really love to see it though.
As for your comparisons, He has only wrestled Suriano once in college, and tore an ACL in that match. Sure, he didn't major him, but controlled the entire match and probably stayed conservative because; A. It was the NCAA finals and no reason to run up the score, and B. The knee probably was telling him to take it easy. Suriano was never a threat in that match. He has not wrestled Fix in a folkstyle match in college (or maybe ever?), but his freestyle matches against common opponents the past few years gives him a huge advantage, except maybe in the height of Fix's PED days. We'll likely see that match-up in years to come. I also hope RBY sticks around for US Senior matches. He will not be competitive at 65kg, maybe OK at 61kg, but I would look forward to seeing him try to make 57kg, then we might see for sure. RBY is better than Fix is definitely your opinion. I'll give you that he had a legitimate takedown this year, but last year he just got away with stalling better.
he tore the acl the next year against mueller. his match against suriano is probably the healthiest version of spencer we've ever seen in college.
What are you talking about?
Look, I know not even being able to get an 80 year old woman must be frustrating for you, but you need to let your fixation with me go. I'm not an 80 year old woman.
"IMO, it is absolutely insane to say that a healthy Spencer beats any healthy 133 lbs. wrestler "by at least a major."
This statement is so comically bad it really hampers the rest of your argument, which wasn't nearly as ridiculous:
Rayvon Foley lost to just about anyone with a pulse, but still went 29-6 at 133 this year. His 3 matches with Lee were all Falls. in :34, 2:43, and :46 seconds. 8 pounds isn't making enough difference.
There are only 3 133ers (Fix, RBY and ADS) that I wouldn't bet my house on a healthy lee majoring in a 1 hour weigh in situation (the last match of a tournament, where it could be a 15 pound difference may have some impact). Byrd might be tough, but its a pretty steep fall after the top 3, and then again after the top 6. Lee would tech or deck pretty much all the remaining guys. https://www.wrestlestat.com/rankings/weight/133
And all of this is assuming Lee has almost no cut at all and thus wouldn't benefit from not having a cut or having more recovery time. If Lee walks around at 135 and would only have to cut 2 pounds instead of 10, that's even more of an advantage for him.
As far as RBY and Fix vs Lee, i think stylistically Fix is a harder matchup for Lee. Fix is stingy as hell too, but its built on head hands defense and strength. RBY is so damn quick he doesn't let anyone get their hands on him in a good position, and is such a good scrambler he punishes people when the get out of position on a shot. Lee doesn't do the latter, and I am confident he would not only finish a TD, but be able to work RBY on top.
Fix would try to counter more with strength, which i think is more likely to give Lee trouble giving up the size than RBYs speed and skill
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