Oklahoma State
Baylor
Possibly TCU
Tech (Beard will go on a grad transfer grabbing bender next month)
Kansas
Possibly WVU if Konate returns to team and they beat ISU for the French recruit
Steve Prohm
- Thread starter Case I H
- Start date
Baylor
Possibly TCU
Tech (Beard will go on a grad transfer grabbing bender next month)
Kansas
Possibly WVU if Konate returns to team and they beat ISU for the French recruit
Good point, I was thinking AP poll as I thought that is what ISU fans defaulted to.
Oh, and that's where they'll finish? Probably best to just sit back and think about football.
They would still be seeded top 28 today. Hardly anyone behind them won more than a game in the Dance. For reference ISU was ranked 16 by Ken Pom before the OSU game and is still ranked #16. All of Ken Pom's top 14 are on the Sweet 16. One close loss to OSU is not going to change much on a 30 plus game season
As we write this (that is assuming no injuries or defections, which are big assumptions), the future looks good. A proven coach, and a lot of pretty talented players coming back from a team that finished the season strong. ISU could begin the season with five starters who all have a load of starting experience at ISU: Wiggs and Halliburton at the guards, THT at the three, Jacobsen and Young up front.
Positives: Two of the league's best freshmen (THT and Halliburton), a very good sophomore (Wiggs), two solid, experienced bigs (Jacobsen and Young), a promising freshman big (Conditt) and an experienced D-1 PG transfer (Nixon from Colorado State). Two other guys did not make any waves this year but there is reason to think they will help. Terence Lewis had some good minutes in limited play, while Zion Griffin was a major disappointment -- four star with offers from Kansas, among many others, hardly played at all.
Negatives: No "take charge" leader, which really hurt the team this year. No consistent outside shooter (Halliburton makes a lot of his shots, but the nature of it precludes taking a lot of them). Question of which Wiggs will show up on any given night.
Imponderables: Injuries, of course. Contributions, if any, from incoming freshmen (and perhaps a grad transfer).
Positives: Two of the league's best freshmen (THT and Halliburton), a very good sophomore (Wiggs), two solid, experienced bigs (Jacobsen and Young), a promising freshman big (Conditt) and an experienced D-1 PG transfer (Nixon from Colorado State). Two other guys did not make any waves this year but there is reason to think they will help. Terence Lewis had some good minutes in limited play, while Zion Griffin was a major disappointment -- four star with offers from Kansas, among many others, hardly played at all.
Negatives: No "take charge" leader, which really hurt the team this year. No consistent outside shooter (Halliburton makes a lot of his shots, but the nature of it precludes taking a lot of them). Question of which Wiggs will show up on any given night.
Imponderables: Injuries, of course. Contributions, if any, from incoming freshmen (and perhaps a grad transfer).
How is Prohm a proven coach? He has won 3 games in the dance (against seeds 12, 12 and 13) that were all with a roster that Hoiberg pretty much constructed. He is less than a .500 coach in Big 12 play at ISU. Also, finished the seasong strong? ISU went 2-6 in their last 8 conference games before getting hot in KC and then flamed out in the first game of the tourney.
And to say Lewis had good minutes is a stretch.
If Hoiberg gets the Nebraska job as expected, I would think that will ramp up the pressure on Prohm as well. I think he's a solid coach, but if he doesn't improve while Hoiberg does well at Nebraska (will see), could start to see an fanbase itching to get the Mayor back in Ames.
ISU has enough talent on their roster that they, like Iowa, should expect to get farther in the NCAAs than they have.
ISU has enough talent on their roster that they, like Iowa, should expect to get farther in the NCAAs than they have.
He's only gonna be a couple hours drive away...You honestly don't think that if Hoiberg succeeds at Nebraska, which has no basketball tradition at all, that that doesn't up the ante for Prohm?
What if in two years Hoiberg had the Huskers in the Sweet Sixteen, and ISU under Prohm flamed out in the first round again...
Hoiberg in the NBA was not a threat to Prohm. Hoiberg in Lincoln...after previously doing well at ISU...?
Iowa State is going to buyout Prohm and Hoiberg to get him to come back ?
Um, no.
I think there will be a very small contingent of Fred knob polishers that will be constantly comparing him to Prohm. I love Fred, I will always be thankful for his time at ISU both as a player or coach, but it will undoubtedly be easier on Prohm if Fred sucks at Nebraska.
All of these are possible for sure. However, when we're talking about preseason polls and stuff only KU will be ahead of ISU, and only Baylor will be close.
I'm talking 3, 4 or 5 years down the road, not any time soon. It may not happen at all. I'm just saying I can't see how ISU's favorite son having success at Nebraska (whom we all hate) doesn't put additional pressure on Prohm. Maybe not a ton, but he's already had two early exits in the tourney and this year would have been a disappointment had they not won the B12 tourney.
Apples to Oranges a bit, but i remember some gnashing of teeth when Alford was struggling at Iowa and Keno Davis had that magical year at Drake.
If we had run Faultless out of town, I could see that. But he left against the wishes of most fans.
Hoiberg at Kansas would be a serious threat.
If Hoiberg does well at Nebraska...his next move won't be ISU. Nor will it put more pressure on Prohm. If Prohm does well, it'll go well it Ames. If he doesn't it won't... regardless of what happens in Lincoln.
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When will the “2019 KenPom top 16” banner be raised at Hilton?
Not sure if that happens. Parts of the fan base were not happy, to say the least, with how this season played out.
Right could you imagine what Iowa fans would say about how horrible Fran is if he lost to Iowa St and had 10+ losses and lost in the first round with 4-5 NBA players? It would be an absolute blood bath.
Wait, did you think I was bragging about the ranking or something? Was simply pointing to a metric that has updated since the start of the tournament to show that ISU really has not moved in regards to rank in the D1. It was merely an example. For further evidence, the only teams seeded behind ISU that won a tournament game were (excluding first four):
7 Wofford
9 UCF
9 OU
9 Baylor
9 Washington
10 Florida
10 Minnesota
10 Iowa
11 Ohio St
12 Murray St
12 Liberty
12 Oregon
13 UC Irvine
The only team on this list that won two games is Oregon and they were a 12 seed. So, if you look at this list, if the tournament were re-seeded today, who would pass ISU? Possibly Wofford. After that, all the other 7 and all the 8 seeds right behind ISU also lost. The 9 seeds beat the 8 seeds, but then lost.
At worst, ISU would likely be the #25 team now, or the highest 7 seed, if Wofford passed them. This is all I was trying to say in regards to Jizzer's comment. Odds are likely losing to OSU did next to nothing to what the Selection Committee would think if they re-seeded today.
Still a lot of moving parts, but I think you are wrong as of today.
Baylor loses Mason and McClure, but get Tristan Clark back and he is a stud. They also add two very good sit out transfers. They will be ahead of us for sure as of today.
TCU returns two of the most elite scorers in the league in Noi and Bane. They will have to figure out how to replace Robinson, but they have a lot of firepower back and add 2 four star players and 3 top 150 kids.
Today Tech would not be ahead of us so I will admit that one, but give him 6 weeks to fill his roster and then see what happens.
Oklahoma State and WVU had ugly records for sure, but OSU returns everyone and was improving and they add a top 25 recruiting class. WVU adds a McDonald's AA big man and could get Konate back who was an All Big 12 player. I could easily see league coaches putting these teams ahead of us with the loss of Shayok, Weiler-Babb and Lard.
As a Clone fan, I'm happy with the news. I think Prohm is just coming into his own there. Three trips to the dance, two conference tournament titles. I'll take that after four seasons.
2 trips to the dance and 3 wins in the dance (over two 12 seeds and a 13 seed) with Fred's roster and a record below .500 in Big 12 play at ISU.
And why are ISU fans so enamored with conference tourney titles?
Would you rather have Iowa's season this year or ISU's?
Iowa State won 10 games against teams that made the Dance (3 at home, 4 on the road and 3 on a neutral). Iowa won 5 games against teams in the Dance (3 home, 2 neutral). Two of those 5 wins were against ISU and Cincy. So I guess it comes down to if you value winning the head-to-head and winning one in the Dance vs beating twice as many NCAA teams including a Big 12 title and 4 solid road wins. I would imagine the vote would be split down party lines.
ISU didn't win a Big 12 title.
Would you rather win the conference tourney and lose a 6/11 game in the tourney or go 1-1 in your league tourney and make the Round of 32?
This coming from Iowa where Fran has won zero conference Championships, zero Conference Tournament Championships, and zero Sweet Sixteens in 9 years.
Prohm has 2 Conference Tournament Championships, a sweet sixteen, and been to the tourney 3 of 4 years. That’s a pretty good resume.
Prohm has 2 Conference Tournament Championships, a sweet sixteen, and been to the tourney 3 of 4 years. That’s a pretty good resume.
You are right, I should have said conference tourney championship.
You first asked if a person would rather have ISU's season or Iowa's. As I laid out, ISU had twice as many wins as Iowa against tournament teams. If you now wish to shorten the season to only the post season, that is a different question.
In regards to your questions though, personally I would rather have ISU's season, ISU's conference tournament and Iowa's NCAA tournament. But neither team achieved their full potential.
Why?
What is so great about a conference tourney title if you aren't from a 1 bid league?
I would trade the 2006 B1G tourney title for a win over NW State every day of the week.
You wouldn't give up the Big 12 tourney title back in 2015 for a win over UAB and then take your chances in the 2nd round with that team?
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I will take the team that won more games, made it further in the NCAA tourney and won the head to head by double digits.
Umm, both teams had identical 23-12 records. So basically, as I said a few posts ago, you, like most Hawk fans, will point to the head to head win and one win in the Dance vs winning twice as many games against the tournament field and winning a conference tournament title. As I said, it will be split likely down company line. I prefer the 10 wins against teams in the Dance and 4 high quality road wins when comparing an entire season.
What about the home losses including getting run out of Hilton by TCU?
Also, ISU had higher expectations coming into the season than Iowa. ISU beat writers/bloggers were saying ISU had the most talent in the conference the first week of January.
Petty funny watching Isu fans giving prohm credit for taking that team to the sweet 16. Niang was coach that whole year, with Morris as his top asst.
Prohm at Iowa State has won more than 23 games in three of his four seasons, won two conference tournaments, been to the NCAA three of the four years, has one Sweet 16 and one round of 32. Fred is a tough act to follow, but the program has stayed at the same level with possibly the best yet to come.
You keep moving the goal post. You asked about who had a better season. I gave you facts about the season. Now you wish to talk about home losses. Didn't Iowa get run at home by Rutgers? TCU is playing in the semifinals of the NIT in their next game, what is Rutgers up to? ISU lost at home to Baylor, Kansas State and Texas Tech. Iowa lost at home to Maryland and Wisconsin. Fairly similar lists of teams.
With that said, ISU was preseason #6 in the Big 12 basketball poll. They finished 5th. It isn't like they were projected to finish second and finished 5th.
Like I said, ISU did not achieve their full potential, but they did accomplish a decent amount of things this year which is why they earned a 6 seed. I am just pleased to have ISU basketball get to a point where a 6 seed is a disappointing season.
Cool. Doesn’t change a thing I said. How many players does ISU have in the league currently and how many current players will end up in the NBA?
