Nicely put, Art!
Plus, I do have an NCAA champ who didn't take the "down" position. . . . Jesse Whitmer, the strongest man in the world. Granted, he's the only one who comes to mind, so the point is still valid.
Super 32
- Thread starter Jaybird319
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Nicely put, Art!
Plus, I do have an NCAA champ who didn't take the "down" position. . . . Jesse Whitmer, the strongest man in the world. Granted, he's the only one who comes to mind, so the point is still valid.
No problem in a kids tournament. Lot of times you have one minute periods, and if you're not great on bottom you might struggle to get one point with no time to follow up with a td. They might feel confident they can get a td, possibly straight to the back.
It's a whole different sport than guys wrestling for the NCAA Championship.
Lol. WW. Having lived through groundhog days all of his life should help him towards the end of the season.
Happy for Kaleb. Good kid making his way to the top
I could care less if my kid wins or loses at a little kids tournament. You have to learn to get away period. I'll make him go down every time until he learns to get away.
Frank Molinaro's coach might disagree with the blanket statement to choose down...
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I guess I misunderstood, I thought you were saying taking the down position is always the best strategic move and that this is why you didn't understand why kids coaches would choose neutral. However, even at the kids level, if there is a specific time when strategically it makes more sense to choose a different position, then I don't know why you wouldn't go with the strategy that gives the best opportunity to win.
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Young will likely be ranked #5 in the next rankings.
1. Marinelli (1)
2. White (2)
3. Berge (3)
4. Dallavia (4)
5. Young (10--Super 32 champ; beat #7 and finished ahead of #5 Hughes)
6. D Bullard (6 @ 170--Super 32 runner up, beat #5 Hughes, lost to Young)
7. Labriola (7--Super 32 3rd, beat #5 Hughes, lost to Young)
8. Hughes (5--Super 32 4th, lost to Ballard & Labriola)
9. Jeske (9)
10. Meyer (11)
(#6 T Bullard to 152)
(#8 Deprez to 170)
1. Marinelli (1)
2. White (2)
3. Berge (3)
4. Dallavia (4)
5. Young (10--Super 32 champ; beat #7 and finished ahead of #5 Hughes)
6. D Bullard (6 @ 170--Super 32 runner up, beat #5 Hughes, lost to Young)
7. Labriola (7--Super 32 3rd, beat #5 Hughes, lost to Young)
8. Hughes (5--Super 32 4th, lost to Ballard & Labriola)
9. Jeske (9)
10. Meyer (11)
(#6 T Bullard to 152)
(#8 Deprez to 170)
Did Jackhawk87 just call Austin DeSanto a staller?????? LMAO, you don't watch much HS wrestling out of Iowa do you?
Thomsen is excellent - really, really excellent. Loss to DeSanto is no shame at all - Willie doesn't have him ranked (although he has before and will again now), but that's just a resume ranking thing. He's had some funky losses in his career and can be inconsistent, but I will tell you he was the best kid in PA AAA bracket last year at 113 - which included Devin Brown. I would bet that Willie and other rankers would pick him in a match against at least half the kids ranked in the top 20 right now - again, his resume is inconsistent but has elite talent. Also, the concern about him not going down against Tyshawn White - well, Thomsen made the right choice. White is a really excellent rider - you guys really didn't get a chance to see that during the match, first Thomsen escape was off a TD scramble and 2nd was the start of 2nd period and Thomsen got a good start off the whistle. Plus, White is nothing special on bottom. It didn't work out for him this time, but top was the preferable position in the RO in that match (as it is most of the time).
Both DeSanto and White are very, very good kids although relatively unheralded. Seniors that can beat anyone not named Spencer Lee in Flo's rankings. Both really, really talented when they are on.
I was actually more impressed with Thomsen in his losses than the win over Cray. Sometimes at the lower weights I understand the rankings, but they have more to do with resume than who would actually win a match. You've got a lot of younger kids there, kids without a long history in HS and it makes for some funky - but justifiable and understandable - rankings. DeSanto and White were the two best kids he wrestled down there.
Thomsen is definitely going to be a stud moving forward. He is a top 10 guy right now as a soph.
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Fix is outstanding in any style. He was a weight class too small for this tournament. He had problems with Karam's length in the semis. He did a nice job with a slick TD to force OT against Arujua, but honestly, I would not pick him him ever against Arujua - kid is just too physical for Fix, which is usually Fix' game against the kids he wrestles.
Did you watch the match? He had two stall calls against him; maybe deserved more. Took 1 serious shot the whole match (reshot in SV). Had a lot of half shots and backing up - avoiding serious wrestling.
He may not be a staller in general, but he was certainly a staller in that match (kind of like Mega vs. McD early in his career).
He wasn't aggressive offensively the two matches I watched. Call him whatever you like, but he played the edge and did a lot of backpedaling.
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Fix was a weight class too small? That kid looked super sucked out when I saw him on Friday night.
At 120, Joe Silva is a phenomenal wrestler. Granted I see him once a month (if not more) when we go and train with Lake Highland Prep but I didn't expect him to win the tournament. He had great match strategy against that DeSanto (who was stalling against him) and I'm glad he won.
At 120, Joe Silva is a phenomenal wrestler. Granted I see him once a month (if not more) when we go and train with Lake Highland Prep but I didn't expect him to win the tournament. He had great match strategy against that DeSanto (who was stalling against him) and I'm glad he won.
Agree, I like Thomsen. I'll reiterate what I said in an earlier post about his close win in the round of 32: turn it up one notch on urgency and one notch on set-ups and he's there. Great arsenal for a soph; he's got to create more opportunities to unleash it.
Ok, I've only seen Austin DeSanto wrestle about 30 times in his career. Not a staller, in the least. There are plenty of PA kids that stall, AZ, and I've called them out on it plenty of times.
Here's a video on DeSanto (notice the FLO comment below it):
http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...-Exeter-vs-Devin-Schrupp-Warwick#.VjfIuLerTcs
Again, Thomsen is really, really good. Controlled the mat against DeSanto. Very impressive. I think I might have put that in my post above, lol.
Also, I'm hard pressed to call out anyone for playing the edge at Super 32 if you've been there and seen the mats. If you're not controlling the center, you're playing the edge.
Dayhawk, he's (Fix) a weight class too small against the guys he was competing against at the end, JMO. And I'm not a big proponent of cutting. But you look at a kid like Arujua - Fix is not in the same weight class. He even looked small against Karam, who is not big at all for the class. Yeah, he might be sucked out also, but his frame doesn't match up with those kids. Fix is going to be a 125 in college, those kids aren't. It doesn't show up much in HS for him, but it did at the end of that tournament. Same thing would happen with Spencer, and I'm a huge Spencer fan (and will be an even bigger one when he joins Hall at PSU in two years)
Here's a video on DeSanto (notice the FLO comment below it):
http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...-Exeter-vs-Devin-Schrupp-Warwick#.VjfIuLerTcs
Again, Thomsen is really, really good. Controlled the mat against DeSanto. Very impressive. I think I might have put that in my post above, lol.
Also, I'm hard pressed to call out anyone for playing the edge at Super 32 if you've been there and seen the mats. If you're not controlling the center, you're playing the edge.
Dayhawk, he's (Fix) a weight class too small against the guys he was competing against at the end, JMO. And I'm not a big proponent of cutting. But you look at a kid like Arujua - Fix is not in the same weight class. He even looked small against Karam, who is not big at all for the class. Yeah, he might be sucked out also, but his frame doesn't match up with those kids. Fix is going to be a 125 in college, those kids aren't. It doesn't show up much in HS for him, but it did at the end of that tournament. Same thing would happen with Spencer, and I'm a huge Spencer fan (and will be an even bigger one when he joins Hall at PSU in two years)
Ok, I've only seen Austin DeSanto wrestle about 30 times in his career. Not a staller, in the least. There are plenty of PA kids that stall, AZ, and I've called them out on it plenty of times.
Here's a video on DeSanto (notice the FLO comment below it):
http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...-Exeter-vs-Devin-Schrupp-Warwick#.VjfIuLerTcs
Again, Thomsen is really, really good. Controlled the mat against DeSanto. Very impressive. I think I might have put that in my post above, lol.
Also, I'm hard pressed to call out anyone for playing the edge at Super 32 if you've been there and seen the mats. If you're not controlling the center, you're playing the edge.
Dayhawk, he's (Fix) a weight class too small against the guys he was competing against at the end, JMO. And I'm not a big proponent of cutting. But you look at a kid like Arujua - Fix is not in the same weight class. He even looked small against Karam, who is not big at all for the class. Yeah, he might be sucked out also, but his frame doesn't match up with those kids. Fix is going to be a 125 in college, those kids aren't. It doesn't show up much in HS for him, but it did at the end of that tournament. Same thing would happen with Spencer, and I'm a huge Spencer fan (and will be an even bigger one when he joins Hall at PSU in two years)
I don't know if DeSanto is a staller or not Diceman, but that video you linked doesn't help your case. That was awful - 23 seconds of wrestling crammed into an 8 plus minute video.
Karam is ranked at 132? He is by no means a small 126lber. I was sitting there at all of these matches and watching everything. Fix is not the biggest 126 but I doubt he could've made 120 for this. It's all about your body type, Arujua and Karam are taller guys so they look bigger.
DeSanto stalled in 3 of the 4 matches I watched him wrestle and the only time he didn't was against a clearly over matched opponent. He's a heck of a wrestler and I was impressed but he liked to get 1 score and then play the edge and stall.
DeSanto stalled in 3 of the 4 matches I watched him wrestle and the only time he didn't was against a clearly over matched opponent. He's a heck of a wrestler and I was impressed but he liked to get 1 score and then play the edge and stall.
Day, I see the guy you guys are talking about all the time in person. I run a tournament that both compete in, see them in duals, team states and individuals. Karam may be ranked at 132, but he's not a big 126. I get what you are saying about body types and agree, but this is not the case with this one.
Fix - Karam reminded me a lot of Assad -Karam last year. Assad is a great wrestler, but you could see that length was an issue with him in that match moving up in weight classes.
Fix is great. But size was an issue in those matches.
Lol, probably a poor choice not watching the video before I linked it. Just read the comments, good catch pablow, EOMF.
I stand by the assertion that DeSanto is not a staller. Seen him wrestle many times. May be a little one dimensional on his feet but he's a goer. Again, my post was complimentary towards Thomsen. The kid was very impressive. DeSanto is a very tough veteran and I would take him all day long against some kids ranked above him.
I'm sure there isn't a whole lot of wrestlers with DeSanto's caliber who got where they are by being stallers. With that said sometimes guys tend to compete differently when they are trying to win a big tournament. I remember thinking a couple years ago Tony Ramos wrestled a completely different tournament at NCAAs, but he did what he had to do win. Without googling it I couldn't tell you what the scores of his matches were, but I can tell you Tony Ramos was an NCAA champ.
Agree with you in terms of little kids and I brought my son up the same way - didn't matter what the situation was, he knew he had to take bottom.
But that was when he was a kid learning the sport. Alec Thomsen is not going to get better a bottom because he takes it in TB in the consy semis of Super 32 (not that I'm saying he has issues on bottome). High end wrestlers need to incorporate tactics into their matches at some point. I would think he's at that point.
Tactically, it was the correct decision. Didn't work out for him that time, but it was the right call then and would be again.
This! I don't think Dice watched any of these matches. DeSanto would be a perfect fit under John Smith. Thomsen beats him 8 out of 10 times with a good ref.
I'm pretty much done with this. I've said over and over Thomsen is really good. Never said anything else, there are a lot of reading comprehension problems on this board. I took issue with the statement that DeSanto is a staller. I've seen him wrestle as early as 6th grade. Probably have seen him wrestle at least 30 times in person over the past 6 years. Seen many videos of him. Seeded him for our tournament. It's pretty laughable, the kid is a goer. Thomsen did a great job controlling the mat on him. My point is that it was not a bad loss in that he was losing to an unranked kid. The kid is a top wrestler capable of beating most anyone in the country at 120. He (DeSanto) also takes some questionable losses and that is why he is below the radar at this point.
I don't understand why it's gotta be the ref, or the other kid is a staller, etc. when your guy loses. Your guy showed that he is a top 10 kid in the country - as a sophomore. The kids he lost to are also top kids in the country. You win some, you lose some. Next time might be different, might not. My point on here is to say that the Thomsen kid really is a top kid. Sometimes you get kids who perform well at Cadets, not wrestling a bunch of national tournaments - well it's hard to tell just how good they measure up. My point is that even in those loses, I think Thomsen measures up.
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Only guy I rooted for against him beat him. I was simply going off of what I saw this past weekend
You wouldn't choose down on my oldest, he will tllt you to death or cradle you. You would choose neutral. He's built like Degen and once he's on top it's over, but you can get in on his legs easy if you're an elite wrestler, then he has go to funk or hope for a SM. It's not cut and dry.
This entire thing about choosing down was just something I observed early in the tourney. I didn't like that he was choosing neutral. Chief agreed and said hopefully it doesn't come back to bite him....it did. I didn't think it would turn into an entire thread about our wrestling philosophies. My opinion on kids being able to get away isn't going to change.
Awesome news about your son.
My dad can beat up your dad.
My response to the not choosing bottom thing was more in reference to the White match in TB - which I guess wasn't you. I could see your point if he was choosing neutral consistently. Although, one point to be considered is that the S32 tourney is unlike most any tournament he's going to be in this season. You can wrestle an extraordinary amount of matches in one day, especially if you end up in the consys and you don't have a lot of time in between them. In early round matches where the result isn't really in doubt, it could be seen as prudent to choose neutral and not waste a lot of energy getting off bottom against a kid who might turn out to have a little top game.
I like watching kids that like to wrestle and force the action - and will root for them regardless of which state they are from or which school they have verballed to.
I don't like to watch kids that try to avoid wrestling.
Pretty simple really.
I don't like to watch kids that try to avoid wrestling.
Pretty simple really.
We brought it up after he wrestled bianchi....tough kid from Wisconsin.
My response was to souci. You know the guy whos kids are ranked #1 in the world in the 6 8 and 10 and under division.
My response was to souci. You know the guy whos kids are ranked #1 in the world in the 6 8 and 10 and under division.
Kaleb Young took out a pretty tough 160 field in dominant fashion, he has looked really slick so far this preseason, and especially good in scrambles. I really want to see how he would fare against the top 4 at this weight, wouldn't it be something if Marinelli, Berge, and Young were all top 3 at this weight and future Hawks If we do end up landing Berge that will be quite a bit of talent for the hawks in the 165/174 range. Lightweights will hopefully be sured up with Lee, and will still be really good even if we can't get Lee. All we need now is a stud recruit in the 184 range, to either come in and push Wilcke or run with the spot. I think Holloway will be our guy at 197 and Stoll/Bradley will be manning Hwt for the forseeable future.
If we do end up landing Berge that will be quite a bit of talent for the hawks in the 165/174 range. Lightweights will hopefully be sured up with Lee, and will still be really good even if we can't get Lee. All we need now is a stud recruit in the 184 range, to either come in and push Wilcke or run with the spot. I think Holloway will be our guy at 197 and Stoll/Bradley will be manning Hwt for the forseeable future.
