Big Tens Session 3

[dtripp26]

I watched it twice. The "injury" happens like 20 seconds before. He's limping around before he comes back to center. He was in on a leg earlier. I only watched his knees. Nothing went the wrong direction, zero improper stress. Whatever happened, happened with zero input from the Minny 197.

Oh, I'm thinking it's going to be like Starocci or Nolf. Hopefully he'll be back at nationals with a vengeance.

I'm no expert nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it looked like he may have hyperextended going OOB on the original flurry. I though ankle at first when he was hopping around but didn't see anything roll. Looking again they both had all momentum going OOB with his left leg planted back, therefore my very amateur guess. It could be a simple two week sprain or it could be an ACL tear, we'll probably never know but I bet we see him in a big brace in 2 weeks.

Also, just as with Teemer's injury against ISU, why send him back out there after suffering a potential severe injury? In a dual I can see trying to preserve the team points (not in Teemer's case as he was obviously injured) but in a qualifying tournament, take the injury default and don't put that knee at any additional risk.

 

[sabula]

"It's hard to win a match if you don't get a takedown. Somehow, some way, you've gotta get a takedown." --Ironside

A lot of talent, but a pitiful lack of offense, inability to ride, and when we do score points, minimal effort to score bonus points. Five guys below seed, only one above. What on Earth is going on in that wrestling room? Is anyone learning from their mistakes? Who is coaching them? Who is motivating them?

Please, dear God, let's have a decent finals session to close out the weekend so I can say something positive about the team I love.

Something in the recent TNT formula is not working. You better change the recipe or you better change the cook. But you can't keep on eating this crappy food... if you get my drift.

 

[js8793]

"It's hard to win a match if you don't get a takedown. Somehow, some way, you've gotta get a takedown." --Ironside

A lot of talent, but a pitiful lack of offense, inability to ride, and when we do score points, minimal effort to score bonus points. Five guys below seed, only one above. What on Earth is going on in that wrestling room? Is anyone learning from their mistakes? Who is coaching them? Who is motivating them?

Please, dear God, let's have a decent finals session to close out the weekend so I can say something positive about the team I love.

You could be talking about just about any Iowa team in the last 15 years here. It's Tom. It's always been Tom. Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

 

[CerroGordoHawk]

Just think we could've burned a whole year of his eligibility just to get five more points than Gabe and still be in the same third place as right now.

I'm curious what makes you think that Iowa is challenging Penn State anytime in the near future. Some of you sound like Twins fans with your "just wait until player X comes up from AAA."

 

[The Vak]

"It's hard to win a match if you don't get a takedown. Somehow, some way, you've gotta get a takedown." --Ironside

A lot of talent, but a pitiful lack of offense, inability to ride, and when we do score points, minimal effort to score bonus points. Five guys below seed, only one above. What on Earth is going on in that wrestling room? Is anyone learning from their mistakes? Who is coaching them? Who is motivating them?

Please, dear God, let's have a decent finals session to close out the weekend so I can say something positive about the team I love.

Frustrating losses in the small details. Gabe was like 8 seconds from RT and winning in regulation. Lack of dynamic athletes in general, and as always comes up these days, a lack of willingness to shoot. My opinion re: the shots is that it's tied directly to our being uncomfortable in scrambles, so always looking for perfect openings to finish quickly.

I do think we need some new blood on the staff and I'm hopeful that the guys coming in look like a step forward in dynamic athleticism and skill sets.

 

[dtripp26]

"It's hard to win a match if you don't get a takedown. Somehow, some way, you've gotta get a takedown." --Ironside

A lot of talent, but a pitiful lack of offense, inability to ride, and when we do score points, minimal effort to score bonus points. Five guys below seed, only one above. What on Earth is going on in that wrestling room? Is anyone learning from their mistakes? Who is coaching them? Who is motivating them?

Please, dear God, let's have a decent finals session to close out the weekend so I can say something positive about the team I love.

This has been the case every season after we won the title. Hell even the title year we limped home and PSU was the story Saturday night.

Our staff's inability to get the team prepared to wrestle in March cannot be ignored. It is a huge, huge issue. Cael and Gable almost always have (had) their teams ready in March. We continually regress in March. It's maddening!!!

 

[oldhawk56]

Frustrating losses in the small details. Gabe was like 8 seconds from RT and winning in regulation. Lack of dynamic athletes in general, and as always comes up these days, a lack of willingness to shoot. My opinion re: the shots is that it's tied directly to our being uncomfortable in scrambles, so always looking for perfect openings to finish quickly.

I do think we need some new blood on the staff and I'm hopeful that the guys coming in look like a step forward in dynamic athleticism and skill sets.

I seem to remember Gable did just this w his staff, it's not a job for life.

 

[sabula]

This has been the case every season after we won the title. Hell even the title year we limped home and PSU was the story Saturday night.

Our staff's inability to get the team prepared to wrestle in March cannot be ignored. It is a huge, huge issue. Cael and Gable almost always have (had) their teams ready in March. We continually regress in March. It's maddening!!!

This ^^ 👍

 

[Sandor45]

This has been the case every season after we won the title. Hell even the title year we limped home and PSU was the story Saturday night.

Our staff's inability to get the team prepared to wrestle in March cannot be ignored. It is a huge, huge issue. Cael and Gable almost always have (had) their teams ready in March. We continually regress in March. It's maddening!!!

The definition of insanity

 

[js8793]

The definition of insanity

We just need @bnicolls to cut one more check and we'll get there. Raise those rents Bob!!

 

[MilleGinja]

You could be talking about just about any Iowa team in the last 15 years here. It's Tom. It's always been Tom. Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

This doesn’t seem like a fair assessment. Unless you’re referring to his double recruiting class when starting at Iowa, which led to the three peat. But even then, he still recruited those guys. So I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

If you want to argue the “game” has passed him by, I won’t oppose that.

 

[muddage11]

I am infavor of an assistant overhaul. Gotta start somewhere!!

 

[praguehawk]

We just need @bnicolls to cut one more check and we'll get there. Raise those rents Bob!!

These comments are just BS. Do we need changes? Yes. Is insulting the guy who actually writes checks to the program going to accomplish anything good? No. He doesn’t need me to white knight for him, but your comment is some weak chicken shit commentary.

 

[js8793]

This doesn’t seem like a fair assessment. Unless you’re referring to his double recruiting class when starting at Iowa, which led to the three peat. But even then, he still recruited those guys. So I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

If you want to argue the “game” has passed him by, I won’t oppose that.

Iowa is one of the easiest places to win in all of college wrestling. Unparalleled combination of administrative support, fan support, tradition, and funding. I'm just not that impressed with what Tom has done with those resources.

He's developed 1 NCAA champion since 2017 and that guy was good enough to win 2 years before he stepped on campus. That is unacceptable with Iowa's resources.

We all are well-aware of his shortcomings as a coach. We see those come to fruition every March when our guys can't score or scramble when it matters most.

But to me, his failures as a leader are worse. His vision for the program is garbage. He's spent the last years throwing literal millions down the drain chasing short-term results. Meanwhile, he's let the HWC languish. And we wonder why guys don't get better at Iowa? Who is pushing them? Who is setting the example for them? Every PSU recruit is surrounded by world and olympic medalists who show them every single day what it takes to be an elite professional athlete.

What did DT do when he got to Stillwater? He rebuilt the dilapidated Cowboy Wrestling Club. It looked like the HWC. It was basically Daton and nobody else. Now, it's Zahid, RBY, Fix, and now McKenna. 3/4 of their coaches are former world teamers who are still young enough to train with their guys. And look at the incredible energy that program has already. That's how you build a program.

 

[sdvike]

Cody Chittum 6th place in the Big12. Congrats Cody!

Hope JT gets him second round at Natty's somehow. That should make things right for what was said at ISU meet.

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

Thank god they redshirted Ferrari though. I'll never understand the obsession some posters have with redshirting.

Agree. On paper it makes sense. But if anyone's been paying attention the past several years in March our guys look like a walking MASH unit at Nattys because of all the wear and tear on their bodies from getting brutalized in the room for those years that don't count. For many guys yeah RS makes sense. But when you have a guy like AF, take off the f*cking leash.

 

[ff141]

Agree. On paper it makes sense. But if anyone's been paying attention the past several years in March our guys look like a walking MASH unit at Nattys because of all the wear and tear on their bodies from getting brutalized in the room for those years that don't count. For many guys yeah RS makes sense. But when you have a guy like AF, take off the f*cking leash.

He has a chance to be a 4 time champ. U take that chance

 

[js8793]

These comments are just BS. Do we need changes? Yes. Is insulting the guy who actually writes checks to the program going to accomplish anything good? No. He doesn’t need me to white knight for him, but your comment is some weak chicken shit commentary.

I have no problem with @bnicolls spending his money on the program. That's great. But to this point, it's mostly been a bandaid on a bullet wound. Buying 1 year grad transfers is not how you catch PSU. It's a shortcut that doesn't even work.

If Bob wants to make a difference, his next check should be contingent on real, material changes to the program. It's not that Iowa keeps losing. It's that they keep losing the exact same way, year after year after year. Change something!!!

 

[UndercoverHawk]

A lot of posters right now

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

He has a chance to be a 4 time champ. U take that chance

Spencer Lee had no ACLs by his third year. Did anyone see that coming? Again, on paper the RS makes sense. But nobody knows what's going to happen with AF in the next two years, much less the next five. IMO it's a waste to tuck an elite talent like that away for a year because of a perfect-world-scenario-five-year-plan.

 

[CatCoach]

When you're really good at riding, why would you not ride as long as you can. Especially in a 1-0 match!!! It actually was VERY SMART wrestling.

Dumb wrestling would have been to cut him and go to a less dominant position.

Dtripp the comment wasn’t meant for the third period it was for periods 1 & 2.
It was directed more at Patrick and Gabe, where we hand fought for 6 minutes but never level changed to a shot.
Iowa is not good in 1-1 matches because we generally do not generate our own offense, other than Caliendo.
Ben did what he needed to do and ride out the third. Awesome for him, but we need to be teaching our wrestlers to score points. You have to take some risk in wrestling but let’s do those in periods 1 & 2 instead of waiting til 30 seconds left without enough time to come back.
It’s almost like Iowa football and not trying to take any risk on offense. It keeps games close but inevitably the offensive team wears us out and we loose at the end.
Plus I feel like we have good athletes but most are just afraid to make mistakes.
I think we have the makings of a good team but strategy's need to change.

 

[MilleGinja]

Spencer Lee had no ACLs by his third year. Did anyone see that coming? Again, on paper the RS makes sense. But nobody knows what's going to happen with AF in the next two years, much less the next five. IMO it's a waste to tuck an elite talent like that away for a year because of a perfect-world-scenario-five-year-plan.

If he’s ready now, he makes the team better, and he wants to go, let him go.

 

[Hawky42]

PK and Arnold are pretty much wrestling up a weight class. These big horses are hard to finish shots on and hard to ride.

 

[cwobrien11]

At this point, are Arnold and Kennedy single digit seeds???

As long as Kennedy won two matches, he was probably destined to be ranked in the 6-8 range. The only way he bumped that up was to win it all and the only way he would drop would be to go to 0-2.

Gabe was likely going to be in the 8-10 range as long as he didn’t go 0-2 in the Big 10 tourney. If he made finals, he may have moved up into the 5-7 range. He may slip as far as 11th if he loses to Allred and Heller wins the ACC.

 

[Libertylover]

Iowa is one of the easiest places to win in all of college wrestling. Unparalleled combination of administrative support, fan support, tradition, and funding. I'm just not that impressed with what Tom has done with those resources.

He's developed 1 NCAA champion since 2017 and that guy was good enough to win 2 years before he stepped on campus. That is unacceptable with Iowa's resources.

We all are well-aware of his shortcomings as a coach. We see those come to fruition every March when our guys can't score or scramble when it matters most.

But to me, his failures as a leader are worse. His vision for the program is garbage. He's spent the last years throwing literal millions down the drain chasing short-term results. Meanwhile, he's let the HWC languish. And we wonder why guys don't get better at Iowa? Who is pushing them? Who is setting the example for them? Every PSU recruit is surrounded by world and olympic medalists who show them every single day what it takes to be an elite professional athlete.

What did DT do when he got to Stillwater? He rebuilt the dilapidated Cowboy Wrestling Club. It looked like the HWC. It was basically Daton and nobody else. Now, it's Zahid, RBY, Fix, and now McKenna. 3/4 of their coaches are former world teamers who are still young enough to train with their guys. And look at the incredible energy that program has already. That's how you build a program.

They have a billionaire funding the program now, especially the club team. Using Taylor’s name as hot young coach to attract talent. Same formula Cael used at PSU. Neither one is some magical coach. Taylor has been working one on one with Plott since the summer, and he lost to our under sized true frosh, and still gets throttled by Keck. The key is talent. Kennedy was way overrated in high school, doesn’t have the athleticism to reach an elite level a guy in the top 5 pfp coming out of high school should be able to do. Gabe has the athleticism, so his ceiling is much higher, just has to drop a weight class and get better mentality. Wrestling is also a mental game, and if you are struggling with depression or anxiety at the level Gabe has been this year, we are lucky he was able to keep wrestling and not take a break to simplify his life this year. Hopefully he can recover from this in the off season and reach his potential next year.

 

[ff141]

Spencer Lee had no ACLs by his third year. Did anyone see that coming? Again, on paper the RS makes sense. But nobody knows what's going to happen with AF in the next two years, much less the next five. IMO it's a waste to tuck an elite talent like that away for a year because of a perfect-world-scenario-five-year-plan.

In most scenarios I’d agree but not with this opportunity and the fact he has Starocci and keckeisen gone

 

[Bhabbaganoosh]

They have a billionaire funding the program now, especially the club team. Using Taylor’s name as hot young coach to attract talent. Same formula Cael used at PSU. Neither one is some magical coach. Taylor has been working one on one with Plott since the summer, and he lost to our under sized true frosh, and still gets throttled by Keck. The key is talent. Kennedy was way overrated in high school, doesn’t have the athleticism to reach an elite level a guy in the top 5 pfp coming out of high school should be able to do. Gabe has the athleticism, so his ceiling is much higher, just has to drop a weight class and get better mentality. Wrestling is also a mental game, and if you are struggling with depression or anxiety at the level Gabe has been this year, we are lucky he was able to keep wrestling and not take a break to simplify his life this year. Hopefully he can recover from this in the off season and reach his potential next year.

I believe Kennedy would be top 3/4 at 165 this year.
He is good, even a fringe AA up weight.

I think Gabe is also good enough to be a fringe AA up a weight.

If Caliendo isn’t even close to Messenbrink, I would think Iowa drops Gabe to 174, Patrick back to 165 and Michael to 157.

 

[Jason.D.Brantley]

Iowa has a billionaire too Harry Stine from Stine Seeds. Anybody friends with him?

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

Lol, another tourney of PSU guys stepping up on the big stage and our guys folding. Getting old.

 

[giveitall]

Not surprised.

 

[The Vak]

Woof.

 

[js8793]

lol

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

Now we get to watch Cali get killed by Mess and then white knuckle it through Buch's match praying for a win there.

This program just feels dead under these coaches. It's like March is their f*cking kryptonite.

 

[hawk224]

I’d say outside of Teemer’s injury, this year is pretty much going as expected. I get the frustration when you’re watching Hawks lose but most of us knew this was coming

 

[giveitall]

I’d say outside of Teemer’s injury, this year is pretty much going as expected. I get the frustration when you’re watching Hawks lose but most of us knew this was coming

Yeah, but it's the same old shit year in and year out that makes it most frustrating. Iowa always has people injured, people not at their optimal weight, iowa doesn't game plan, iowa doesn't make adjustments. Just annoying to watch the last 12 years.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

The likelihood of PK and GA to AA this year is probably 10%.

Against decent guys...absolutely no offense.
It's really incredible.

Start recruiting guys that are long and can finish shots. I don't give a shit about their pre college cred. You can't have 5'6"/5'7" guys at heavier weights.
Use the Minnesota/Nebraska blueprint.
What they're doing now sure as hell isn't working.

I think it’s 50/50, not 10 percent. But it is frustrating!

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

I don't see what you have seen to think either Kennedy can beat Hamiti or O'Toole or that Gabe can beat Plott or McEnelly. Hope to be wrong.

Gabe can beat McEnelly IMO.

 

[js8793]

Gabe can beat McEnelly IMO.

How does he score on him?

 

[zoe22]

Gabe can beat McEnelly IMO.

Gabe is not beating Mcenelly

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

How does he score on him?

He can do it…he just needs to get on the offense early and often. Again IMO.