You know, if you are just going to join the "I'm with stupid" club that exists on the board you could at least have some other redeeming quality. Like be funny or something. This is just boring.
Sweden Close To Victory Over Coronavirus; Never Had A Lockdown Or Mask Mandate
- Thread starter Hawkeyerick
- Start date
You know, if you are just going to join the "I'm with stupid" club that exists on the board you could at least have some other redeeming quality. Like be funny or something. This is just boring.
Yes, it is. I worked on health insurance plan design for many years before I retired, and that is the one substantial advantage we have over other countries. It's also part of what makes our cost higher per capita, but people here don't have to wait nearly as long as many other countries for care. We have much more capacity in many areas than most countries. I also recall seeing ratings by the WHO having us tops in responsiveness.
I've already done the research. Others have posted about it on this thread. Instead of focusing on me, open your mind.
I'm not talking about them being sorry they killed their old people. I'm asking why they couldn't manage the job of protecting them as their neighbors did. Whatcha got, Skippy?
I just don’t recall Iowa ever shutting down. Outside schools closing for 8 weeks and a 2-3 week period of no in dining restaurants (full takeout but now w To-Go Booze) I don’t understand how we were all that much different than Sweden.
When did this oppressive lockdown happen?
When did this oppressive lockdown happen?
If you're going to parade around HR in your pointy white cap on my command, at least you could brish yoru tooth first, Jethro.
As the old saying goes, "for most no explanation is necessary, while for a few, none is possible"
They've explained that. Skippy. Triggered skippy. Trump triggers you. Even though I hate Trump, I trigger you. Skippy.
JFC, go to bed, child. Do your parents know you are using their computer?
“Sweden has gone from being the country with the most infections in Europe to the safest one.”
"As the rest of Europe and the world remains under the grip of draconian rules and the threat of new lockdowns, Sweden, which allowed its citizens to remain free throughout the entire pandemic, has pretty much declared victory over the coronavirus."
https://summit.news/2020/09/08/swed...navirus-never-had-a-lockdown-or-mask-mandate/
Sweden
Sweden COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Sweden Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.www.worldometers.info
They didn't have a "mandate", because Swedes voluntarily listened to government policy recommendations.
Economically, they've fared the same as their neighbors, with about 10x as many deaths.
1 week into Iowa's "shutdown" and I saw 100s of people lining up at a local ice cream shop window. If that is the type of lockdown that drives people insane then we have a pretty mentally weak populace.
Economically, they've fared better than their neighbors, and significantly better than most of the other EU countries.
Deaths were 90% assisted living. Causes were lack of PPE at assisted living facilities, delays in shutting those facilities to visitors, allowing infected workers into the facilities, and not transferring infected patients to hospitals for treatment. Yup, that last one should hit home with those always talking about other health systems. The Swedes gave infected elderly patients morphine to make them comfortable instead of transferring them to a hospital.
Like my graph showed ( which @Menace Sockeyes failed to grasp ) if you want to give 48% of your GDP to the government they will provide you with heath care. You are correct as well...
I suppose if you imagine eating ice cream is all life offers. Many of us don't share your low expectations.
And with far fewer lockdown deaths than Copenhagen or virtually any other major city that locked down.
BTW, Denmark just had its highest number of daily new cases since April.
How about you post this "lockdown deaths" source and we'll talk. And Denmark is far, far better equipped to treat a novel disease now than they were in April...agreed?
And, BTW, Denmark's 7-day running average of new cases is lower than Sweden's.
Well, there was the report from the UNiversity of South Denmark that stated, "Offsetting the lives saved are deaths resulting from the diversion of medical resources to treating covid19 cases and maybe lack of exercise, the stress of isolation and other factors (8)"
But that report was from way back in June, and lockdown deaths occur over longer periods of time, so we know they've grown significantly since, and will keep growing even once the lockdowns end.
And it's somewhat difficult to say if anybody is better equipped to treat the virus today. I mean, what few treatments exist today seem to be the same treatments that existed 5 months ago. Moreover, what is really saving people in Sweden today is an infection rate that has reduced the number of viable hosts to a low enough level for transmission to cease. Denmark hasn't reached that level. It's sort of like Iowa not being hit when New York was hit. Did that make the virus safer for Iowans?
So, we don't know shit about "lockdown deaths" and you claiming they are significantly higher here than there is bullshit if you have nothing with which to back it. And the idea that we aren't better at treating it now...that doesn't even rise to the level of arguable. That's someone desperately trying to cling to a narrative.
Actually, the 7 day moving average of new cases in Sweden is about equal to that of Denmark, but with roughly double the population of Denmark, the number of new cases per populace in Sweden is about half the level in Denmark.
No; they haven't. Their economic fallout is pretty much the same as their neighbors.
And indications last month were that their recovery was slower, due to larger #'s of cases still floating around.
This is why Denmark, Finland and Norway are having faster economic recoveries. It's easier to track small breakouts of cases when your numbers START OUT low.
And WORSE than others, too.
Compared with their similar, Nordic neighbors, they were pretty much the same.
Excess death rates around the globe significantly exceed COVID deaths around the globe. Meanwhile, electronic medical records company Epic has released a white paper showing diagnosis and treatment for many deadly afflictions (cancer, stroke, etc.) were reduced by around 80 in March - May due to the lockdowns. The data mirrored similar information previously released by medical billing software provide Komodo Health.
And then we have historical evidence of increased social ills such as suicide, drug overdose, domestic violence strongly correlated to unemployment. And right on cue, social ills such as suicide, drug overdose, domestic violence spike following the lockdowns.
Bet,, heyt. Nothing to see here.
Keep saying it. It still won't be true. I see you've shifted the goalpost in another post to "faster recovery". It's easier to recover faster when your starting point is lower.
I grasped it fully. You must not have grasped my gist: non-shithole countries invest in the healthcare of their people.
Ok...I'll ask again where you got the data to support your claim that the "lockdown deaths" in Copenhagen greatly exceeded those of Stockholm. Post your numbers and not speculation. Otherwise you posted bullshit.
Sweden didn't invest in the health of their old, assisted living people. Their policies are now receiving scrutiny they never got before. Health care costs are so high in the US because of multiple reasons, but end of life care is extremely high in the US.
Sweden didn't send many of their old COVID-19 patients to hospitals. They drugged them to make them comfortable.
It's never just about statistics.
What part of "Denmark, Norway and Finland had the same downturn as Sweden" is escaping you here?
Look them up. I've posted it multiple times, and pretty sure in response to your nonsense.
While it is sometimes implied that Sweden didn’t have a lockdown, it did. It was just largely voluntary, with only a few legal measures such as a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people.
“Voluntary restrictions work as well as legal ones,” says the architect of Sweden’s strategy, chief epidemiologist Anders Tegnell.
This appears to be true, in Sweden at least. The measures did work nearly as well in getting people to change their behaviour. Adam Sheridan at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, for instance, has used data from a bank to compare spending patterns up to April in Sweden and Denmark. Denmark introduced a compulsory lockdown on 11 March, one of the first in Europe.
Sheridan found that spending – an indicator of behaviour as well as economic activity – fell by nearly as much in Sweden as in Denmark: 25 per cent compared with 29 per cent.
Similarly, data from the Citymapper phone app, which helps people plan their travel routes, suggests that travel in Stockholm fell to 40 per cent of the normal level. “That’s a substantial reduction,” says Martin McKee at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, whose team did the analysis. However, there were even bigger falls in other major European cities during compulsory lockdowns, to 20 per cent on average.
So there was a substantial voluntary lockdown in Sweden – yet it wasn’t nearly as effective in reducing the spread of the coronavirus as the compulsory lockdowns in neighbouring Denmark and Norway. Cases and deaths rose faster in Sweden and have been slower to decline.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ionary-tale-or-a-success-story/#ixzz6XZ7NRdXn
Well if we were just oppressively "locked down", like you are implying, why was such a trivial enterprise (from a essential business perspective) still allowed to open up shop and service customers? Do you think Big Ice-Cream paid off the politicians and the local fuzz for them to look the other way or even worse...give them preferential treatment?
You are not doing so well here.
The route to my country club goes by said ice cream shop, it wasn't my priority but rather that of those in severe "lock down"...I was heading to play some golf.
