Expecting insults but gotta ask it: can a wrestler waive off a t-fall because he(she) wants to go for a pin?
Technical fall vs pin fall
- Thread starter IamHawkeye
- Start date
Kind of. If a wrestler secures the tech fall and maintains the same hold, they can try to finish the pin. As long as the hold isn’t broke. Once the hold is broken the tech fall is given.
We’ve seen Spencer Lee try to run his bar for a pin while getting the necessary back points for the tech fall.
Not sure I explained that the best, but the short answer to your original question is yes.
Once upon a time in freestyle you could decline a win by technical superiority. Once b satiev gave up the first takedown of the match and his opponent was visibly pleased about it (for good reason). Satiev took that personally and would not let the match end when he then rattled off something like 6 takedowns. His opponent could barely stand but satiev refused to let him off the hook for daring to score on him.
thanks. Good explanation. . I should have realized that wrestling fans would rather explain than insult as that way brings in more fans.
No one making fun of you for asking the question. Using the term pin fall is embarrassing, but a few simpletons like to run with it. It's either a fall or a pin for future reference. I find the technical fall to be a more dominating win. Many luck into a pin. You don't luck into a technical fall.
Pin fall is historically correct. A fall is just the conclusion of a match. In the catch as catch can days of wrestling, that was usually accomplished by submission or pin, so pin, fall, and pin fall were sometimes used interchangeably. Maybe that's changed in amateur wrestling circles and now people recognize fall to mean technical fall, but pin fall or pinfall is also correct. "Technical" and "pin" are just adjectives used to describe the type of fall that has occurred.
Pinfall is a term used in “professional” wrestling. Remember catch as catch can turned into entertainment wrestling shortly after Frank Gotch, and his career ended in 1913. Anyway, the term pinfall is not used in amateur wrestling and is very cringe worthy to anyone who actually wrestled but it often helps identify the drive by fan (drive by fans are not bad, just usually less informed/credible).
Freestyle and folkstyle as we know them can also be traced back to wrestling at the turn of the century, catch as catch can. Folkstyle was developed to lessen the dangers (and have true competition) in schools as the popularity of wrestling increased in the country. I'm wondering if the disdain for the term "pinfall" is a regional thing or a generational thing. I have brackets from tournaments from youth where "pinfall" is noted as the result of matches. Never once in my years competing did I hear anyone take offense or have disdain for the word being used. This is the first I've heard of that. I find it interesting. I would note that your name user name is "nearfall". Should I assume that a nearfall signifies a wrestler about to lose by 15 points or he's about to get pinned?
I wouldn"t have used the term pinfall except I have seen it on here and wanted to differentiate between the two falls. BTW, when was technical fall first started as match ending.?
Not a term I use, but I don't see it as a "rube" thing, rather a "I'm trendy and cool" thing.
Which is worse: pin fall or states?
Could be a regional thing but I’m assuming the brackets from your youth tournaments were filled out by someone’s mom or a cheerleader(that’s who I had do them). I have never seen the term on a college bracket, but stranger things have happened. Really, you shouldn’t see pin on a bracket either, but you do. Since college wrestling started having the NCAA Championship only the term “Fall” has been put on their brackets/results. Every rule book I have seen(and I have seen a lot) have used the term Fall. They only mention of pin, again, that I can remember, is in the section that describes a fall. It used to say something like, ‘A fall occurs when both shoulders are pinned to the mat.’ So, people say he’s pinned. I have no disdain for people who use the term. It is just not used in college wrestling. A college wrestler would never say ‘I won by pinfall,’ but I have heard them say “I pinned him,” and “I won by Fall.” As far as your last sentence, nearfall points are awarded when you hold your opponents shoulders at a 45 degree angle or less for at least 2 seconds. Spencer Lee gets a lot of them.
It’s states by pinfall
Tech fall started in mid 80’ sometime between 84-86. It wasn’t a thing when I was in high school but it was when I started college. There was probably some overlap where college started using it but high school hadn’t changed yet.
I remember when you could win by decision, win by major decision, win by superior decision or win by fall.
Back to the OP, the answer is “No.” That is, once the official has indicated a TF you cannot “waive it off” and keep wrestling. The opposite can occur; that is, if you have your opponent on their back and the official has counted off enough back points to secure a tech fall, he will hold those points. You can opt to stop trying to get the pin, and just release him so the match ends.
But once a 15 point margin is reached, and the points have been awarded, the match ends and you cannot ask to continue.
But once a 15 point margin is reached, and the points have been awarded, the match ends and you cannot ask to continue.
If I hadn't seen Pat Glory dominate Spencer Lee in Carver, in the process of getting tech fall'd by Spencer Lee, I might agree with you.
And nothing significantly wrong with “pin fall” except is is needlessly redundant. The scoresheet is going to show Decision, Major Decision, Tech Fall, or Fall. A “fall” by itself indicates a pin.
It’s sort of like calling a boxing knockout a “ten count knockout” to distinguish it from a technical knockout. It isn’t necessary. There is a KO and a TKO.
It’s sort of like calling a boxing knockout a “ten count knockout” to distinguish it from a technical knockout. It isn’t necessary. There is a KO and a TKO.
Pin fall, because states vs state is simply regional, like “pop” versus “soda.” JB says “states” so that’s a pretty strong stamp of legitimacy.
Art - Isn’t “needlessly redundant”…needlessly redundant, lol?
BTW, I like the combination of pin and fall into a single word so I guess that makes me trendy
Art - Isn’t “needlessly redundant”…needlessly redundant, lol?
BTW, I like the combination of pin and fall into a single word so I guess that makes me trendy
I will have to speak to the Redundancy Depart of Redundancy for a ruling. But our computer systems require redundancy, so I do not believe all redundancy is needless.
Pin fall is a very easy term to say. Two syllables. Ten count bla bla bla doesn’t compare. You can do better, Artie.
I see pin fall as older school. Just like wrestling boots.
Isn’t that some funny shite? You’re trendy AF, AF….Art - Isn’t “needlessly redundant”…needlessly redundant, lol?
BTW, I like the combination of pin and fall into a single word so I guess that makes me trendy
Ah, but I did say there was nothing particularly wrong with it other than it is not necessary! A ten-count-knockout would definitely be worse.
The word, “pin,” is a bit weak and unfinished in pronunciation, imo. Go ahead and pronounce it to yourself…. Pretty weak on the palate, eh?
“Pin Fall.” It puts an old school exclamation point on the victory and in the mouf….
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I remember when the word "pinfall" would attract Jason Bryant to go on a mini-rant on these boards. Maybe this thread will draw him here once again. (hint)
For the record, I don't like the word "pinfall" in amateur wrestling. If the WWE people use it, that's their problem.
Didn't tech falls came about to reward big point scorers who couldn't quite get their opponent pinned, wanting to reward wrestlers who ran up the score?
When I hear one of you morans use pinfall, I still cringe, just like I do when Ironside uses "wizard" for whizzer, but I still really like Ironside. It's a free country with a continuously-evolving version of the English language, and you guys are going to do what you do, whether JB or I like it or not. Fighting pop-language is generally a losing battle.
"Threw" is another phrase for fall that was used frequently in many years gone by.
I like that one! I used to see it in CR Gazette back in the 60s all the time.
We could really jazz things up with “pinfall throw.” It has a nice ring to it.
Edit - I will use this in a sentence to demonstrate how catchy this phrase could be:
Kyven Gadson executed a beautiful pinfall throw to defeat Kyle Snyder in the 2015 NCAA finals at 197lbs.
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That will really make some of these guys mad, AF, with you.
First person I thought about was JB. And was hoping this would reel him in. lol
For the record, grapple said Jason Bryant in the comment I quoted, so there’s that…
