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The absolute f*cking best: People who’ve had loans forgiven crying about student loan forgiveness and getting caught…

This is really odd to me (Liberal) that people are looking at this politically. Based on your response it seems you believe there is a problem because you talk about a "fix". If there's a problem the real question is, how do we fix it. Can we all agree the problem is the "high cost of college"? If so, how does loan forgiveness help solve that problem. It doesn't even address it at all because it's forgiving loans on people who have already left college. That doesn't help fix anything because next year there will be a new group of students graduate and they're going to be complaining that they too want loan forgiveness. It's never ending.

There has to be a solution to the actual problem. We can argue about rich people getting away with not paying taxes too, but that's another problem, and needs to be handled on it's own.

Well that's what I'm saying but the only answer I get in terms of a fix from conservatives is get rid of the system that allows the poor to have some social mobility.

But yes paying off student loans for people doesn't fix the problem it just kicks the can down the road.
 
They pay MORE than their fair share?

I disagree.

Using current tax law to avoid paying taxes is certainly legal.
Of course you disagree. We have a fundamental difference in what we consider fair. I think everyone should pay income taxes. Nearly half pay no income taxes.
 
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Parkersburg tornado was the end of my libertarianism. It was only like 6 months before that where I caucused for Ron Paul. Got on the Ron Paul train because I was sick of my cousins going to Iraq and Afghanistan, but couldn't bring that up at the caucus in my small town or people would think I was a pussy. Instead, when nobody at the caucus spoke up for Ron Paul, I decided I would try to lecture a room full of adults with mortgages about inflation. I'm embarrassed to this day of that moment.

Why was the Parkersburg tornado the end of your “libertarianism”?
 
Prime farmland will not always be in demand if farming isn't profitable. That is unless it is near a military facility then there isn't a price too high for the CCP.
Farming is, and always has been, cyclical.

Point out a time when demand for farmland was nonexistent.

Even during the farm crisis of the early 80s, when someone went bankrupt, someone else bought that land.
 
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Well that's what I'm saying but the only answer I get in terms of a fix from conservatives is get rid of the system that allows the poor to have some social mobility.

But yes paying off student loans for people doesn't fix the problem it just kicks the can down the road.

When I responded, I wasn't really responding to you specifically, just more in general. The secondary problem is, we don't have a solution to the main problem (cost of college). For me, the cost of college is secondary to the "cost of everything". We have a major problem in this country with the "cost of purchase" and the "cost of ownership". We as a society need to start looking for ways to reduce the cost to live. The cost of college is only one component (and it is a big one).
 
Between undergrad and law school, I had about 140,000 in loans. I've paid it down to 20,000. I don't need any lectures from people that took PPE money, or those that took GI Bill, or those that had federally subsidized mortgages.
Why wouldn’t you take the GI Bill? I believe I paid in 1200 or 2400 in 1997, which was a huge chunk of my base pay as a 2lt, and the benefit was somewhat limited. I think around $24k.I don’t think you you pay in or there is any limit to it if you go a state school. It is a hard earned benefit -why leave it on the table?
 
Why wouldn’t you take the GI Bill? I believe I paid in 1200 or 2400 in 1997, which was a huge chunk of my base pay as a 2lt, and the benefit was somewhat limited. I think around $24k.I don’t think you you pay in or there is any limit to it if you go a state school. It is a hard earned benefit -why leave it on the table?

I agree. But my point remains. Some people want to take the government money, but bitch about others that take government money
 
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My whole complaint is where are the proposals to solve the college cost issue going forward? Nothing. It’s simply about getting votes for the election and screw anyone who’s having to take out new loans at today’s higher tuition rates.
This is exactly the problem. It's a systemic issue. Sociology students should never take out $100K in loans.

My (no pics) daughter graduated debt free, but many of her teacher colleagues are drowning in student loan debt even in their 30s and 40.

Loan forgiveness is a short term fix to a long term problem.
 
This is exactly the problem. It's a systemic issue. Sociology students should never take out $100K in loans.

My (no pics) daughter graduated debt free, but many of her teacher colleagues are drowning in student loan debt even in their 30s and 40.

Loan forgiveness is a short term fix to a long term problem.

Its a start, but it is a long term problem. We need to quit shoveling all the h.s. kids towards college. Perhaps they will be mature enough when they are 25 or 30. But sending every 18 year old to a life in debt is beyond irresponsible.
 
How was PPE earned?
PPE is a different animal. PPE is the government paying businesses to keep people employed while government entities are hindering the business (shutdowns, restrictions, etc.) PPE came with stated restrictions that had to be met, and the promise of forgiveness if those restrictions were met.
 
Go ahead and shake your head. Now on with the Milton Friedman babble. I'm sure you're a stunning intellect when it comes to political economy

I am not even sure how to respond to this as it makes absolutely no sense. Still trying to figure out what the Parkersburg tornado has to do with your political leaning.
 
I am not even sure how to respond to this as it makes absolutely no sense. Still trying to figure out what the Parkersburg tornado has to do with your political leaning.

Well I'll try the same explanation again and see if you can connect the dots this time about how I was turned off from libertarianism: 1.) Seeing FEMA be more effective help than charity 2.) Formally studying a little economics beyond high school economics (specifically 101 level macroeconomics).

I really don't think what I'm explaining could be more obvious even if you disagree with it.
 
A few things
1) PPP was passed by the Democrat controlled House 388-5. To use PPP as a “own” v Republicans is quite idiotic.


2) I’ve pointed out how big of a boondoggle PPP is and even created a thread about it…it was a very popular bipartisan boondoggle and was quite popular at the time it was passed.



3. PPP loan forgiveness was built into the program

4. Comparing PPP that had massive bipartisan support and went through the proper legislative process and Bidens loan forgiveness that skipped the legislative process and was done by EO is ridiculous.

5. People taking student loans knew very well they were required to pay them back. Well until the administration decided to flaunt the constitution and and use the “Hero’s act” that was enacted post 9/11 to circumvent the constitution.


Amazing stuff….maybe Democracy is in peril if we have an executive branch brazenly sneering it’s nose at the constitution to buy some votes in November.

All of this is of course correct. Not to mention the reason thebloans were needed was a forced shut down of businesses by the government and they loans were intended to keep people employed. The loans were forgiven if the business demonstrated they kept employees and paid them. Lots of fraud but that doesn't change the fact that forgiveness was built into the intent

Student loans are predatory though. Literally no other lender would be allowed to do the things student loans routinely get away with. They are not just a little predatory. They are deliberately so and then the companies double down by behaving in ways that would put others in prison. Fraudulently representing terms and options is normal business practice and it is well documented. Even in situations where the student loans had forgiveness built into the model the lenders would lie and fraudulently direct borrowers away from that option. I have yet to see anyone go to prison for this behavior. This by the way the lenders that provide funds on government student loans. Private loans are much much worse. If you have any doubts about how ridiculous the business has become, a student lender has their name on the brand new football stadium in LA. Think that through for a bit.

Why was bankruptcy removed as an option on this debt? No other debt gets to hide from bankruptcy court. Declaring bankruptcy by the way does not just eliminate your debt as many think. You need to convince a judge that listens to sob stories all day. Put bankruptcy back in the equation.

Why is the rate on student loans so high? Rate assignment is a function of risk and student loans are a guaranteed return on investment. With so little risk Why are they allowed to gouge the consumer?

It is a disgusting dirty industry and it needs to be slapped hard.
 
All of this is of course correct. Not to mention the reason thebloans were needed was a forced shut down of businesses by the government and they loans were intended to keep people employed. The loans were forgiven if the business demonstrated they kept employees and paid them. Lots of fraud but that doesn't change the fact that forgiveness was built into the intent

Student loans are predatory though. Literally no other lender would be allowed to do the things student loans routinely get away with. They are not just a little predatory. They are deliberately so and then the companies double down by behaving in ways that would put others in prison. Fraudulently representing terms and options is normal business practice and it is well documented. Even in situations where the student loans had forgiveness built into the model the lenders would lie and fraudulently direct borrowers away from that option. I have yet to see anyone go to prison for this behavior. This by the way the lenders that provide funds on government student loans. Private loans are much much worse. If you have any doubts about how ridiculous the business has become, a student lender has their name on the brand new football stadium in LA. Think that through for a bit.

Why was bankruptcy removed as an option on this debt? No other debt gets to hide from bankruptcy court. Declaring bankruptcy by the way does not just eliminate your debt as many think. You need to convince a judge that listens to sob stories all day. Put bankruptcy back in the equation.

Why is the rate on student loans so high? Rate assignment is a function of risk and student loans are a guaranteed return on investment. With so little risk Why are they allowed to gouge the consumer?

It is a disgusting dirty industry and it needs to be slapped hard.
Bingo
 
All of this is of course correct. Not to mention the reason thebloans were needed was a forced shut down of businesses by the government and they loans were intended to keep people employed. The loans were forgiven if the business demonstrated they kept employees and paid them. Lots of fraud but that doesn't change the fact that forgiveness was built into the intent

Student loans are predatory though. Literally no other lender would be allowed to do the things student loans routinely get away with. They are not just a little predatory. They are deliberately so and then the companies double down by behaving in ways that would put others in prison. Fraudulently representing terms and options is normal business practice and it is well documented. Even in situations where the student loans had forgiveness built into the model the lenders would lie and fraudulently direct borrowers away from that option. I have yet to see anyone go to prison for this behavior. This by the way the lenders that provide funds on government student loans. Private loans are much much worse. If you have any doubts about how ridiculous the business has become, a student lender has their name on the brand new football stadium in LA. Think that through for a bit.

Why was bankruptcy removed as an option on this debt? No other debt gets to hide from bankruptcy court. Declaring bankruptcy by the way does not just eliminate your debt as many think. You need to convince a judge that listens to sob stories all day. Put bankruptcy back in the equation.

Why is the rate on student loans so high? Rate assignment is a function of risk and student loans are a guaranteed return on investment. With so little risk Why are they allowed to gouge the consumer?

It is a disgusting dirty industry and it needs to be slapped hard.
Student loans suck.


Totally agree.


My problem with comparing it to PPP is it’s apples and oranges.

PPP was enacted to keep people on payroll and not overwhelm state unemployment. The contract for the PPP loans was basically…pay your employees and the “loan” is forgiven.



Student loan contracts are to be repaid.


If we want those loans forgiven it should be through congress. Not the president’s magical executive wand. That’s not how any of this was intended to work.
 
Student loans suck.


Totally agree.


My problem with comparing it to PPP is it’s apples and oranges.

PPP was enacted to keep people on payroll and not overwhelm state unemployment. The contract for the PPP loans was basically…pay your employees and the “loan” is forgiven.



Student loan contracts are to be repaid.


If we want those loans forgiven it should be through congress. Not the president’s magical executive wand. That’s not how any of this was intended to work.
I agree. I’m not wild about student loan forgiveness but if we have it, it should be authorized by congress. With that being said, the whole student loan / college pricing is fookin’ wacky. Something needs to be done but I don’t know what. In the meantime, state schools are good enough in my eyes. Served me and the wife well, and serving my son well thus far.
 
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