Wages are determined by supply and demand. If people aren't beating down your door for your jobs, you have to raise the pay.
The Brain Dead Issue that is Pay "Fairness" for Women
- Thread starter JRHawk2003
- Start date
Wages are determined by supply and demand. If people aren't beating down your door for your jobs, you have to raise the pay.
You want to know why female dominated professions, like teaching and nursing, pay less than other professional job dominated by men?
Too many women want to be teachers and nurses, and that never-ending supply holds wages down.
Too many women want to be teachers and nurses, and that never-ending supply holds wages down.
Here's another scenario. Let's say you hired an employee back in 2008 for $10 an hour. The job market sucked in 2008 and applicants were happy to get the job.
Flash forward to 2015. Our 2008 employee has been getting annual pay raises all those years, and is now making $12.66...
BUT, the job market is much better for applicants. You can't find anyone to be our 2008 employee's coworker for less than $14 an hour. So, you hire someone for $14... should the 2008 employee's wages be raised to $14 an hour, too? Just to be "equal" about it?
Flash forward to 2015. Our 2008 employee has been getting annual pay raises all those years, and is now making $12.66...
BUT, the job market is much better for applicants. You can't find anyone to be our 2008 employee's coworker for less than $14 an hour. So, you hire someone for $14... should the 2008 employee's wages be raised to $14 an hour, too? Just to be "equal" about it?
"In a 2010 study of single, childless urban workers between the ages of 22 and 30, the research firm Reach Advisors found that women earned an average of 8% more than their male counterparts."
Young males are being discriminated against.
You keep making the case for more regulations. That's why I like you. You're like a stealth union rep.
If we were wiling to let wages be determined by supply and demand, there would be no reason for having these recurring threads. The disparities we have are those arising from the labor market we have. "Market" being the key word.
What's being challenged is not whether the market produces disparities. Obviously it does. What we are discussing is whether those disparities are unjustified enough or big enough to be concerned about.
You said, "You are accepting uncritically, and she isn't proving, that those jobs deserve higher pay."
Higher pay is only "deserved" when the market dictates that to be so. You can't compare nurses and wildcatters and determine that nurses "deserve more" just because nurses are overwhelmingly female. If enough women stopped wanting to be nurses, wages would rise.
There is no wage gap based solely on gender. The wage gap is real but it is based on experience, education, type of work, etc. not gender.
Sweet. More regulation.
Why can the employee that's been there for a while not negotiate his wage? If someone isn't competent enough to negotiate what they are worth, are they really worth what they think they are?
No he isn't...Haven't you seen his posts in this thread? As well as his posts in others?
I do, but it's not my words you need to read. Tradition set up the scenario where the lower paid worker was the equal of the better paid, so the answer to your question is obviously they are worth the increased pay. It's simple reading comprehension and inadvertently makes a great case for unions to protect worker's rights.
And now for the REST of the story...
So, to be fair, you give the 2008 employee a bump to $14. Will she be happy and appreciative?
Nooooo.... the first words out of her mouth will be: "I have almost eight years of seniority over her. I should make more than her."
And THAT my friend, is why NOBODY goes down that road.
You told us the worker was worth more and the market would bear more, but now you want cover for screwing the worker. You really can't make a better argument for unions.
Not really. If she gets a better job offer, we'll match the offered wage, if reasonable.
Welcome to the world of two parties negotiating freely without the need for government to mediate everything.
Oh, and if this employer had a union pay scale, they could never have hired the $14 girl in the first place.
I don't think you're making the case you think you are. But keep talking, that's some good ammo.
There are no solutions. It's how the world works. Inserting a bunch of government crapola will only make things worse. Teach our children how to negotiate instead unionize. We'll all be better for it. Competition > Collectivism.
Unions work if you want a vibrant economy, a growing middle class, parents who can raise their own kids and deliver a quality life from the fruits of their own labor free from handouts and welfare programs. Every problem we have would be better if people just started respecting work more and didn't try to steal $2 from their long time worker and call it fair.
It DOESN'T MATTER whether or not they - the men doing these jobs - DESERVE higher pay! Those jobs GET HIGHER PAY! Women do NOT want these jobs. It isn't that difficult.
Until the shop closes down. Then it becomes Bye Bye Miss American Pie.
Do we not learn from our mistakes?
This has nothing to do with unions. I negotiate against unions. Pay scales are laid out in contracts and they are set by job title, which refers to a job description. Union contracts always favor senior workers because raises are in %'s.
Thats part of why this is a bullcrap issue. The women complaining are ones who sat out of the job market to pop out kids, then expect after 5-10 years to go back in as if they never left and should get paid like it. Ridiculous.
Thats part of why this is a bullcrap issue. The women complaining are ones who sat out of the job market to pop out kids, then expect after 5-10 years to go back in as if they never left and should get paid like it. Ridiculous.
Actually this is quite the opposite of what is happening. All the studies that have factored in as many lifestyle choices as possible find that a gap remains. However, the studies you point to, which are the ones that find that women make more more, are likely due to lifestyle choices.
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We just had a thread about this. Even the studies cited by those who say the pay gap is a myth readily admitted that at least a 5 cent gap exists.
Sheesh, we're arguing in circles again.
Look, Huey... when someone refutes your point, you don't get to make the same point again later as if your point hadn't been refuted.
Look, Huey... when someone refutes your point, you don't get to make the same point again later as if your point hadn't been refuted.
